B4Ctom1

yes but being that picky and spendy has resulted in a project that spans over 10 years and that has put me to the point where if I cant get in the seat soon and start racing it then I may have to part with it and go back to building 11 second rides from $400 cars and a handful of semi-discarded parts (see JYD below).

PETE

iTrader: (1)

If you ever think of getting rid of the white B4C lemme know. It would be an interesting platform for a turbocharged 342 I was contemplating before I picked up the TTA!

305 block and a GMPP 3.80 stroke with either a BBT66 or a a GT67(either may be too big for the small bore all stroke motor)


My car will hopefully be done soon and I may be looking to part with it and go to the afforementioned project.


Pete

Twelvz

B4Ctom1


What kinda fuel system are you setting up to feed this?
Pump (intank or/an inline), injector sizes, stock fuel lines or what ??

B4Ctom1

stock intank, ATI inline, and 36 lb injectors

biggtime

I think 36's are a little small. I am at 9 lbs and am making 435RWHP so that puts me around 550/575 at the crank. doing that math i am already needing 50 lb injectors. at 80 percent. I have 55's and plan on putting a bigger blower on so I will probably max out the 55's around 700 crank. Your combo is pretty close to mine so I would say from comparing you need bigger than 36's.

B4Ctom1

since my prowess with programming stock chips thus far has proven dismal, and for that reason I can't even consider a 749 swap, I will be using an FMU until I get good enough to consider delivering fuel through large injectors using the MAP.

biggtime

Gotchya, you need a fmu? I have a ATI one.

B4Ctom1

I have my ATI one still, and I have a fancy fully adjustable cartech one too.

biggtime

Cool!

B4Ctom1

it would be cooler if I could use the 749 swap
see I know I could get the 749 installed
there is just too much I don't understand about burning chips, and please dont ask me to read traxions article because thats how I got in this fix in the first place. Im really thinking aftermarket ECM now.

biggtime

I love my DFIV7 so much I have 2!!!

B4Ctom1

yeah my machinist is a EMIC dealer, he has been on my **** hard over getting the gen 7, he thinks if I want to burn chips I should be using this program originally designed by a turbo Puick guy and then modified to work for a variety of other GM ECM platforms. Turbo something, it helps scan and create bin's

biggtime

Ive been down that road. to much work for me. I like to make my changes in real time, thats why i went dfi. It took 3 hours to tune my 442 on a dyno. thats drivability and full throttle. I am sure there are some people that can burn a chip that quick but they are far and few in between. The SY-TY computer is not that different. the hardest part would be making the harness work. you just get tunercat or somother software. If you are starting from scratch its not that much different. The other thing to is I can use the 442 computer in a different car! I can't switch it with my Typhoon, but When I finish my 69 camaro I will use it in there!

PETE

iTrader: (1)

you can try it this way. You'll still have the maf, but will be a lot easier to tune. I may consider using this as aninexpensive step up to dfi.

http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/rttnr_desc.html

HTH!
Pete

B4Ctom1

I doubt it, does it include a USB aldl scan cable? before you say adapter, please read this

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=194677

TTA850

I wouldnt make fun of the Turbo Buick guys,they have probrobly spent more time getting the factory ECM/Chip combo to work than just about anybody else,and a free to share and do for others,not to mention have designed more scantools to monitor the stock setup than anybody else(including the Scanmaster,Turbolink,and Directscan which has an update rate of 18.2 frames/second).

I'd suggest taking a second look at that stuff before dismissing it.Tools like that are what has helped me get 650hp out of my 3.8 V6 using many stock parts including the stock ECM/Chip setup.

Steve

PETE

iTrader: (1)

We all know you can't ring 650hp from a 3.8L


Someone mentioned to me that you put 55lb injectors in without modding the ecm, true or false. Mine has been down since July and hopefully will be done before the start of spring looking for bottom 11's. We'll see if the 51 and 50's can pull it off.

TTA850

Yes I did and it seems to be ok to do as long as you keep the injector duty cycle low,as in for low boost/low timing street conditions.I did modify the ecm before turning the boost/timing up for racegas,where my duty cycle is always around 100% - I know I need bigger injectors,but I wanna see how far these 55's will get me.

As for your combo,50's and a 51 is a great choice.Add in a good intercooler and some carefull tuning and I belive you'll reach your goals.

Steve

stevedave454

http://www.holley.com/LunatiCamshafts/FallPromo/

go here, having a sale on SOME solid roller cams for $175 brand spankin new!

B4Ctom1

I looked and didnt see any power adder worthy solid rollers

B4Ctom1

The white ones a Z, sorry

Kingtal0n

Hows it coming Tom? Im picking up a book ATSG tommarow then ill take pics of it for you.. but hows the short stroker coming?

B4Ctom1

I still have to drive over to the next town and pick up my crankshaft. Then maybe I can begin assembly
Im thinking of firing up the heater and getting the temp above freezing out there to do some work today on the car in genral

zelement

You don't see too many destrokes around these days anymore.

Good to see another one.

How come you didn't go with a 377? I have to ask because I am kinda bias

B4Ctom1

this is why:

B4Ctom1

Well the guy that runs the machine shop is a great friend and I told him to let it sit on the back burner to make it easier for him to get it done. As a result he always cuts me a helluva deal on all my work. So about a month ago or so he told me he got it done and when I came to pick it up he apologised and told me he forgot to double key way the balancer and crank snout. He got it done now and I finally went and picked it up. so I have all of the shortblock and heads now and I will take pics and document as I assemble it when I get to that point.

Anyhow, I have looked at a few cams and I like this one alot. Tell me what you guys think. This is a solid roller for the engine above. Im looking at making 14+ psi boost (if possible more) and reving it to around 7000 or just over as my red line.

Erson - E119830 solid roller 230°/238° @ .050, 270°/278° ADV, .555"/.555” (.592”/.592” w/1.6’s) LIFT, 112° LC, 4° AD

biggtime

I like the cam It is almost the same as mine 224/236 @.050 .536/.552 lift, 113 LSA Only problem I see is the same i'm having, you are going to need a bigger blower to get that kind of boost. I run 9.5:1 static CR. and cannot get more than 9lbs@ 6400 Engine rpm which right now is 58000 blower rpm.

B4Ctom1

how odd we had 9 psi with the pulleys it came with

biggtime

My first engine was 9.5:1 CR, edelbrock performer centerbolts, lingenfelter 211/219 cam made 14lbs with the pulleys i am using now. I am using a p600 right now......

B4Ctom1

bigtime your cam suggestions have made me totally rethink my cam choices

anyways people LOOK! PROGRESS!


http://www.outlawperformance.com/ima...tuff/progress/

B4Ctom1

I already installed the rear:

old rear:
pic needed

new rear:


A/C heaterbox I got from member tpi_roc swapped in:

before:


after:


PAracing.net Coil over install:

before:


after:


PAracing.net K-member install:

before:


after:


comparison:



if you have any "option" questions or before you order your k member consider the following:

Q: am I using regular mounts or a mid engine plate?

A: better let them know because the k-member comes WITHOUT motor mount pads standard.



Q: using this for street, drag, or road race?

A: you better get them to sturdy up your a-arms if you want to road race or even if you want to re-install your swaybar you will need tabs put on the A-arms for that (not standard). You may even want to consider ordering the a-arms WITH the spring perches and sway bar mount attached just for the extra rigidity they provide (not standard).



Q: am I running stock style springs or coil overs?

A: you need to decide this now so you can tell them to add/subtract the spring perches in the k-member and a-arms



Q: am I getting the k-member and not the a-arms?

A: you need to consider the spring perch thing here as well.



Q: are you going to run a rack unit now or eventually?

A: PAracing has a kit, if yes then have it installed on the k-member before they send it to you. If yes, but not right now you might want to buy it in mild steel like I did so you can "MIG" it later, instead of chromoly unless you have a "TIG" welder and skills.



next project: install manual steering box (half done) install manual brakes (1/4 done)

B4Ctom1

I also need to know who has the procharger or vortech that installed/sectioned a tube/pipe bend into their fender on the drivers side fender well to get fresh air into it.

I'm going to do the same thing or atleast something similar and I didn't think of it on my own. I just wanted to give credit where credit is due.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

In most cases there is no advantage to tig welding 4130 over mig welding besides the fact that a good welder’s tig weds look prettyier.

Very few people use 4130 filler, and the mild steel filler will be the same. Both will result in a HAZ that will be more brittle then the rest of the tube that will be prone to cracking from impacts, unless you go to the effort to renormalize the whole deal aver you get all the welding done.

B4Ctom1

I have a rule about 4130, if you dont have a tig then dont weld it, since I only have a mig, I figured mild steel and Im good to go.


not saying Im right, its more a personal preferrence that I should have indicated above. I also dont believe in welding cast iron without the proper fillers and a cast iron welding oven to keep the work hot. I was proven wrong (so far) about that with the cast iron manifold modifications people have made building turbo manifolds.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I have yet to see someone weld 4130 with anything but mild steel or stainless filler (typically ER70S-6 which is OK, or some people insist on 309, which is a pretty bad idea). I’ve never seen someone do chassis work with 4130 and normalize it after welding it.

If you don’t have an oven big enough to properly normalize the whole, completed piece when you’re done, don’t use 4130. For the life of me I can’t figure out why they require it for 7:49 or faster cages…, the only reason that I’ve been able to come up with is that someone that doesn’t know any better decided that it’s a good idea and it stuck. This is the reason why NASCAR and most other professional racing classes require mild steel cages.

Cast iron is a different animal, but mostly because saying “cast iron” is just barely more descriptive then saying “steel.” The correct filler depends on the type and the application. The right procedure depends on the type and application. There are places that you can get a very satisfactory weld with mild steel wire and no preheat, as a matter of fact, in most of the applications that we discuss here that’s the case. “Proper fillers” (“cast iron rod”) consist of any filler with higher nickel content. Most stainless filler, inconel, “cast iron rod…” work fine to prevent cracking and are all much stronger then most (all?) cast irons.

Preheating depends on the part… mostly if it’s got a lot of thermal mass, it will self quench and crack if you do not.

FWIW, if you’re trying to fix cracked cast manifolds, unless you can grind out all of the reason for the original crack (usually some kind of crud in the casting), the cast iron will just “run away” from you when you try to weld to it. Instead just braze it.

B4Ctom1

so what will happen to those manifolds built by JYD turbo and others simply using wire feed welders to weld steel onto thier cast iron manifolds?

Kingtal0n

As Crossfire Knows I used a "cast Iron Rod" one of the "NASA BLUE" nickel rods, to do my turbo manifolds. I didnt pre-heat or anything nuts, just welded em up. The L98 Manifolds I was using to do the job with, just like 89JYTurbo used, seemed to be cast STEEL rather than cast IRON. This assumption was based on a few different reactions the welder got from the metal, and from the way it appeared to some people that were working with me on the metal itself. Crossfire mentioned that cast IRON was still STEEL, just a much lower grade, I beleive he said it was possible the manifolds were a higher grade of steel which is why the welding in my case (and 89JYturbo's case) went so easilly and without any problems so far after.


the welder I used was an ARC welder, 225AMP @ 100%DC (generator welder) set to somewhere around 180-200Amps, you can see pictures of the process on my site, Http://www.geocities.com/kingtaling/
just click turbo project link.

B4Ctom1

thanks for clearing that up

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

To clarify a little, steel and cast iron are just iron alloys. Cast iron is not iron, but an alloy of mostly iron and carbon. The biggest difference between steel and iron is it’s carbon content.

Secondly, saying “cast iron” doesn’t really tell you what you’re dealing with. It could be gray iron, white iron, ductile iron… all different alloys with different properties.

As far as welding “cast iron” stock exhaust manifolds, they are rather nice castings, and unless you’ve got a cracked one (with a casting problem), they weld rather nicely with the same exact procedures that you would use for a similar steel part, the only real difference is that you need to put less heat into the part to get the same penetration.

B4Ctom1

so they are welded with lower heat settings? is it best to stitch them up a little at a time?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

If you put the same heat into it as you would a comparable piece of steel you’ll fire right through it. Considering that most cast is fairly heavy stitching it will not yield a good weld unless you’ve go one serious welder well into the spray transfer range.

B4Ctom1

so start the bead and see it through atleast til you get to a corner?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

If that’s what makes you comfortable… I generally like starting the bead in the middle and going around the corners, that way you don’t put all the stress points/stress risers in one place (the corners). You kinda have to get a feel for it, where you can tack things and go with steel (as long as you leave an appropriate gap), if you do the same with cast the tacks will cause cracking.

FWIW, you can run nice beads on cast, just like on steel (some of each):

B4Ctom1

wow awsome idea

B4Ctom1

well today I weighed the stock coils, swaybar, and k-member. The weights broke down like this:

stock K-member a-arms and stock front coils: 113 lbs 3 oz

swaybar with bushings brackets and end links : 16 lbs 6 oz

total: 129.5 lbs

replacement k-member and coil overs: 40-45 lbs?

I almost dont want to say how heavy because I handled it plenty and it felt really light. you could lift it with one finger with the a-arms attached. I have a email into PA Racing to see if they can tell me what the exact weight is.

Anyhow, after staring at the grunge in the engine compartment I have decided that cleaning will not be enough.

prepping to paint lots of stuff to remove:







you mean I gotta take this thing back out again?








well next installment will be after cleaning and painting

B4Ctom1

weights:


Charcoal canister 2.5 lbs

Power steering pump, bracket, cooler, lines 16.5

A/C compressor, smog pump, bracket w/idler tensioner 31.75

A/C condenser 4.5 lbs

A/C box and fan 12.25 lbs

cast iron head 48 x 2 = 96 lbs

cast iron manifold w/smog fitting 13.25 x 2 = 26.5 lbs

stock K-member with motor mounts and springs: 113 lbs 3 oz

stock sway: 16 lbs 6 oz
____________________________
total = 319.5 lbs




procharger fuel pump, relays, wiring 2.5 lbs

procharger bracket w/idlers, crank spacer/pulley 15.5

procharger head unit 19.5 lbs

procharger intercooler brackets and scoop 22 lbs

Heater box and fan 5.5 lbs

AFR Head 32.5 x 2 = 65 lbs

Supercomp header 10 x 2 = 20 lbs

Jason @ paracing

PA a-arms: 12 for both

coil overs: 11 for both

PA K-member: 20

moroso motor mounts: 1
_____________________________
total = 194 lbs



Total weight savings = 125.5 mostly from nose of car!!!!!!!




still to come:

power stering box 28.75

manual steering box


power brake booster master cyl. 14 lbs

manual brake plate and master cyl


diverter valve


iron water pump 15 lbs

electric water pump


added cage and subframe connectors

JPrevost

Go with the 210cc AFRs if you want to come close to 8000rpm.

B4Ctom1

Yeah I already found out my blower will pop if I rev that high, 7200-7300 will be where my rev limiter will be set.

B4Ctom1

time for an update:

car back from paint jail for engine compartment paint.

the cage is being done at the adjoining shop as the body shop.

The body shop said do the cage before the body paint, and the chassis shop says to make it a roller (engine installed) before they will cage it.

so step one was to get the engine compartment painted so the enigne can go in.

Supposedly it is some sort of heat and chemical resistant paint.

HUGE pictures of it available here:







see you again in 3 months or so, maybe I will tighten a screw or something.

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

ooooo, thats pretty