ttype i welded a pipe fitting into the oil pan right below the oil filter and screwed an pipe to an adapter into it for the return line,i have pics in the v6 section.its on of the stickys at the top of the forum.beware were u run the oil feed line,i ran mine right over the injector harness without thinking,and within 3 weeks the braided line chewed threw the insulation on the wires and caused much havoc

 

Thanx for the tip

 

Perfect. I have a 1/2 NTP to -10an 90 elbow in the basement. I'll probably drill and tap a small piece of 1/4" plate steel for 1/2" pipe threads to keep it low profile. Then screw in the elbow adapter and the -10an braided hose from there.

daves12secv6:
I followed the sticky in the v6 forum since it was a day or two old, great information. Your instructions seem to be the cheapest possible way to start from scratch and have a decent turbo set up. you eliminated the guess work and the research for everyone else. Thanks. Maybe If I can get this chip tuned correctly with these injectors I could post the .bin publicly and that could be an alternate tuning route.

-$39 for moates adapter and eeprom chip shipped.
-LT1 injectors... I have these from my older brother's 95LT1, but I see caprices and stuff in the junkyard all the time to get cheap injectors ($48max!).
-repeat intake/exhaust/oil mods from your instructions.
done! for cheaper by the cost of an FMU-$39

 

What size injectors? I've got 24#
And I already bought the FMU.
Plan on going Meagasquirt - probably in the F150 and Excursion also (to keep thing uniform).

 

If you were asking me...

LT1 injectors are rated at 24pph, but I've heard a bunch of poeple say they actually test to flow about 25.5pph. When I used them on my first V8 turbo project they went static at 8psi boost and 52psi Fuel Pressure for about 400hp @4800rpm. According to the holley commander.. it back calculates 25pph injectors

 

Hey, ttype
Yeah, these are the ford blue tops that are supposed to be underrated also, but I will soon find out.
How long till you do the install and do the tuning? It is worth the money to me if it turns out to be faster to have you burn a chip.

 

yeah man somone posting up some sort of base tune for a turbo v6 would be great for other ppl that may attemt to do this in the future

 

You guys ever see something like this? :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290069665685&rd=1&rd=1

 

If everything goes as planned I should be doing the injector swap this weekend. that way I can try to get it tuned without the turbo, then add the turbo next week. I don't imagine the tuning should be too hard since the only thing that is not stock is the injectors... I'm hoping the MAF does the rest of the work, but we'll see. I'd be glad to help out with the chip though.

 

heya ttype i will recomend u get a bov on that car even at only 7 psi,i tried not to run one on mine,if u have something smaller then a .63 ar housing u will see boost in high gear while cruising at 75+ mph when u let off the gas it will try to blow the pipe off the tb.more then liley it will blow the pipe off,lol i was on the side of the road enough times putting mine back on till i got a bov
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the maf will max at 7 psi, u wont need anytunning for the 24#'s injectors if u drop base fp 3-5 pounds,untill u get the turbo on.at stock fp with 24#'ers it will run a tad rich at idle

 

Yeah, I plan on getting my injectors and AFPR in soon.
I have shoulder surgery on Feb 6th, if I don't have the turbo in by then I'll have to wait 6 more weeks!

 

ahhh, great to know. I can cheat lean at idle and cheat rich when the MAF maxes out.

Looking at the bin file I think the ecu calibration table maxes out before the MAF actually does. I might try to change the MAF calibration so it can differentiate between loads corresponding 7 psi and 8 psi in the ecu (hard to describe, but it shoud work).

 

Makes sense, how tuff is it to program GM ecu's? I've heard the hardware is cheap, but like I said I own 3 Fords also (didn't mention the Navigator I want to sell).

 

the time consuming part is getting everything you need, then getting it all set up to work like its supposed to. once you get that far, its pretty easy to modify the tune... From there, the difficult part is being a good tuner.

 

i can make 2 suugestions
raise revlimit to 7,000,if u can do away with fuel cut,and do an ignition kill instead if possible with the gm ecm
and remove the speed limiter that lil 2.8 is gonna love to rev high with the turbo,though with the stock ignition system u should start running into problems around 6,000 @ 7 psi

 

with the .xdf I have I can't change the revlimiter, but the speed limiter can be raised to 255mph.

 

After looking at it closer, I figure I'll probably leave the MAF calibration alone but increase the % change to A/F ratio at WOT vs RPM (forces more fuel at specific rpm ranges). Then lower the WOT threshold since its a turbo. I can also disable the AC compressor at 75% throttle (for example).

 

I am not sure how the fuel is cut (RPM and/or MPH) in the V6 stuff. In the V8 stuff I disable the MPH fuel cut and set the RPM cut to 8000 RPMs (basically disable it). The stock GM code rev limits using fuel cut. To use spark cut rev limiter, you need to re-write the GM code. The way I do a rev limit is to pull timing at over-rev conditions with the GM code. Fuel cut is very bad with boost.

In terms of the MAF. They flow a max. of 255 gm/sec. That is (255/453)*60 = 33lb/min. That is roughly 330 to 360HP.

Six 24lb/hr injectors will flow for around 250-300HP without an FMU.

What that says is you will max. out the injectors before maxing out the MAF. I think I did the calc before and the MAF will max. out around 7-9 PSI on 2.8 or 3.1 liter. The % enrich at WOT (PE MODE) is a good way of adding fuel under boost conditions.

Overall, the MAF setup on a V6 is much more usable for boost than on a V8 when using reasonable boost.

 

The MAF calibration tables max out at $FF, but after the conversion in TunerProRT4.14:
[(0.585940 * X) + 0.000000]
$FF ==> 149.41gms/sec. This happens at 1616 DAC counts.

and 24pphinjector aren't big enough to increase the base pulse Vs load so that the MAF calibration tables can be lowered.

example:
raise BPW VS LOAD(LV8) by 10%
decrease MAF cal tables by 10%
"in theory" everything should remain unchanged, haha we all know how well theory works though.

I should be testing out some code by this weekend.

 

I'm going to the track tonight (weather permitting) so I can see what the car does before any mods. I've never made a pass, so we'll see whats up.

 

Even stock you wont hook at Moroslow.

 

Got rained out, but I was able to make one pass:
R/T ... .972
60' ... 2.484
330' ... 7.077
1/8 ... 10.966
MPH ... 63.32
1000 ... 14.322
1/4 ... 17.212
MPH ... 76.21

I felt myself leave late, and I never ran before, so I thought the 1000ft light was the end! I think high 16's are possible in my car if I drove a little better.

 

not bad,thats just about right for a stock 3.1,heh wait until the turbo is on and u trap better in the 1/8th mile then ur stock 1/4 mile time

-- edit
btw i found a greta place to get a custom cam done,and its cheap as hell
www.deltacam.com

89$'s for a custom grind,though i dont think they can grind anything over .525 lift,but compared to the stocks .390 lift its a huge improvement

 

Like I said, my 1/4 would have been better if I didn't mistake the 1000' light for the trap, lol, I lifted to about 3/4 throttle for the last 200' or so.
And I think I can do better on the reaction next time, that's my first run EVER.
.
That cam can achive more lift with higher ratio rockers though, right?
I saw you bought the R-rockers/pushrods someone was selling - you beat me to them by about 2min. lol.
.
EDIT: Actually I saw the post on "new posts", but normally I check "power adder" and "v6" first...HMMM...lmao
P.S. thanx for the link

 

yeah u can use 1.6 ratio rockers to get a lil more lift,i also have a set of 1.8 ratio rockers that im modifying to fit the metric studs on the 60* motor.it nothing more then a spacer/sleve to fit over the 10mm rocker stud so u can use regular sbc rockers.though the 1.8's are made for a 3.8L engine(same stud size as sbc though).
yeah i only needed those roller rockers but the guy threw in the pushrods with them,i cant even use the pushrods since the aluminum heads take a diff lenght pushrod

 

MAN 1.8 on the 60*, did you machine these adapters? If so a quck change of the rockers would be like a totally different cam!

 

yeah but i have to send them out to get hardend before i test them out on the motor thats in the car,to make sure they work without any ill side affects,hate to test them on the tt motor and break a pushrod or rocker stud etc if the adapters cant take the load .

 

What are you goung to make them out of? Can you change the studs on the 60*, if so you can just re-machine the V8 studs down to the thread size/pattern in the heads.

 

the 60* studs have metric threads,i didnt try on an iron set of heads yet,but there may be enough material in the heads(iron heads) to redrill and tap them to accept the standard sbc rocker stud.the aluminum heads on the other hand dont have enough material to do so,thats why i was building the adapters to use on them.either way a set of adapters on tyhe studs would prolly be cheaper then remachining iron heads to accept the sbc studs.
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either way its not gonna be cheap, the full roller rocker (1.8's) are 400$'s from slp .
though im sure i can find some sbc 1.8's cheaper elsewere

 

Not what I meant, turn the sbc studs on a lathe and thread the sbc stud to go into your aluminum head. IMHO that would be better than using sleeves - just one more part to fail, not to mention wouldn't hardened be more brittle hence cracking/breaking easier. If anything wouldn't forged be better?

 

no hardening will help it.but the adapters have to be just about a press fit so they cant rock or wobble.ahh i get what u mean with the sbc studs now.that might be a possibility ill have to look into that

 

After thinking about it, have you checked clearance? How much lift can we get out of these 60*'s before the valves hit?
.
EDIT: I know you're using the aluminum heads, so it will be diff for you - I just haven't had one apart YET to get a good look inside.

 

depends on the cam,but .600's lift should be doable with iron or aluminum heads,
can always cut a relief in the pistion as well

 

But with 1:8 rockers, you're going to have .702 lift with the STOCK cam!

 

Just picked up 5 silicone connectors w/ 10 ss hose clamps for $34 delivered, first post is modified.

 

ur math is way off
.390 lift stock with 1.5 rocker
so divide .390 by 1.5 = .260 lobe lift
multiply lobe lift (.260) x 1.8 = .468
1.8 rocker on a stock cam will add .080 lift compared to the 1.5 rocker
1.6 rocker on the stock cam will add .026 lift over the stock 1.5 rocker

 

Oops, that makes more sense. I thought you meant .390 was the lobe lift, haha was multiplying .390 by 1.8 = .702
.
I think I'm going to look into the rocker studs for the SBC. It's worth spending $400 on a set of SBC 1.8's if all I have to do is take off the valve covers! My buddy who made the flange actually likes doing work on the lathe, so the studs will be another freebie, sorry junkcltr . When I pull the motor apart, or build a new one, a new cam will go in (along with some forged pistons).
My bud should be finishing my downpipe flange soon. I'll ask him about the studs, and tell him I need 24 so I can get have plenty to go around, lol.
.
EDIT : Found 1.7 rollers (SBC) for $222. Here is a link : ROCKERS
And couldn't you drill out the fulcrums to 10mm on the 3/8" rockers?
Actually scratch that you said you already have rockers they must be 7/16", right?
.
EDIT again : Will they hit the valve covers?

 

on iron heads u need to get tall valve covers.either fiero valve covers or edelbrock covers.
the aluminum heads have 8mm studs

since were getting into modifying things heres a sbf 1.7 rocker set with roller tips that fit a 3/8's stud
for 55$'s
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...QQcmdZViewItem

 

And the iron have 10mm? So whatever is made has to stay with my iron heads..

 

yes iron heads have 10mm studs,though u can swap the 10mm studs from the iron heads onto the aluminum heads

 

That's funny I thought the same thing today and just hadn't time to do some research on the Ford valvetrain!LOL
I just don't know if the geometry is the same. I saw thay have two different set-ups, one was offset and the other IIRC platform, or something like that.
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That's right! Actually just a matter of machining the studs again, it just couldn't work the other direction.

 

oh and i was wrong on the price of the 1.8 slp rockers.A new set from them would be 549$'s

 

Those rockers for the SBF are stamped (the ones you showed me), looks like we would have to use aluminum if we wanted to mod the rocker. But you were right looks like I can use any rocker as long as it's roller.
.
Even the stock cam would rock with a set of 1.7 or more!
.
Check this site out, lots of info in one place...
http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeApeRacing/tech/valvetrain.pdf

 

Yeah it looks like the SBF rockers will work. I'll probably have to make new pushrods, though, if I can't get the Ford shim system work on the 60*
.
Have you made pushrods for your 60* yet?
If so where did you get the kit?

 

Well, my wife won't be happy (if she knew, hehe) but I bought the rollers from redttop5speed and a set of the SBF 1.7's (stamped style) from e-bay. This way I'll have both parts in my hand to see if they can be modified.
I believe I figured out a way to mod the stamped style. If it works, I'll post a thread on the process.
The SBF rockers were $68 delivered.
If they fail, I'll still have the 1.6 for the 60*V6
.
Almost forgot they only had 4 sets of the SBF 1.7 available this cheap, so if this works, I can get 2 more sets and I'll have enough to make 4 complete sets!

 

edit nm wrong thread

 

update on rockers. no machning required to use a high ratio sbc rocker.
heres why
the rocker ***** are the same from the sbc and the v6,the only difference is the size of the hole in the ball..375 for sbc and 3.93 for the 10mm v6 stud.so if u wanted to use a 1.7sbc rocker u would use the rockers and get new v6 pivot ***** and nuts.
now if the sbf piviot ***** happen to match the sbc/v6 ***** u could do the same thing since he sbf rockers are cheaper.though u would alsu have o check the sweep and conact area of the sbf rocker first.i checked the v6 vs sbc rockers today and they are identical.
btw u cannot ream/drill etc the pivot ball since they are hardened

 

Nope, didn't plan on machining the ball. Dale told me that crane cams makes an adapter that converts 10mm threads to 3/8. It is actually a kit to convert the 60* to sbc rockers. The machining I was going to do is on the aluminum/ss rockers that have a removable fulcrum. Like this...

You mean to tell me that there is NO tooling that can machine hardened steel? Remember my bud works in a CNC shop.

 

u can cut them,but u would have to have them rehardend,those 58$ 1.7's arent full rolers,they have a piviot ball

 

I know, but they were actually $69 delivered. If I can't make them work on the 'bird, I can always use them on my F150, or sell them (same goes for the blue top inj. - orange in the truck now).
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O.K just found out the SBF and SBC rockers are the same as far as swing and fulcrum to pushrod distance. This means if the pivot ***** are the same size, I'm in!