have the manifolds sandblasted for a smooth finish, before applying paint, and also invest in a wideband o2 sensor and AFR gauge

 

Thanks for the info. Does it have to be 30lbs injectors for a stock LB9 seeing no more than 8psi max? Once I slap this sucker on, I plan building a full turbo engine, 350 iron block, forged internals, etc. I do plan on getting a wideband settup and currently already have a fuel pressure gauge... I have a 3in exhaust catback, but will got to the junkyard to get the cat back factory piping... I don't even have the stock manifolds anymore but plan to wrap the whole exhaust side. Quick question about the oil pump, does it go before or after the turbo? From what I've read, its not too clear if it pushes or pulls the oil. I plan to use an oil cooler sandwich adapter to receive and send the oil to and from the turbo, is this acceptable? Thanks for the help guys...

 

You want the pump to pull the oil through the turbo. What are you using for a fuel system? If you're using an FMU, 22# injectors might cut it, 24 definitely would. If you're not using a method that increases fuel pressure, you will probably have to use 30# injectors.

 

for the fuel, for now, I was going to use a 10:1 FMU with 24lb injectors. When I build another motor, that one will get the correct injectors and computer tunning... I already have a Walbro which I'm sure is up to the task.

 

that should work well if u keep it around 5psi with a good wg, that wont boost creep on ya. i would be weary of anything more than 5psi with those injectors. u should look into MSII if want some serious engine management on the cheep, or the lsx pcm conversion deal for sbc.

im building a heavily race oriented 3rd gen, so carb. is what im going with. i sold my t76 600rwhp ws6 and it was beast. basically c0pying the same combo but with better heads, intake and more psi

 

ps my car is gonna be a previous v6 hardtop firebird with the same gfx as yours but with a 4th gen ram air hood, and painted in nissan 350z blue and chrome ram air font on hood, and 4th gen birds' throughout.
stripping my iroc of the dana for it. iroc is just getting a basic 6.0 ls with 700r4
sorry for the hijack

 

Thats 80 psi plus 50% base pressure, so you're looking at at least 100 psi to the injectors with 8 lbs of boost and a 10:1 fmu. Stock injectors won't handle that and will shut off around 75 psi. Even with an 8:1 FMU, it'll still be over.

You'll have to use some aftermarkets that can handle over a 100 psi.

The other option would be to use an 8:1 FMU and only 6 lbs of boost. That would bring you to 68 psi if you used 40 psi of base pressure. It would be very close to the injector's limit, just make sure you aren't running any more than 6 psi. If it did fault there is a small risk that 6 psi would hurt anything.

 

ok...I think I might go with the 8:1 FMU and the 6lbs boost. I'm not looking for outrageous power on the LB9, I would be satisfied with 300hp at the wheels. Besides, anything above will probably destroy my 140,xxx mi drivetrain (hell, 300hp might destroy the drivetrain)... What did 24lb injectors come stock in? L98's or was that 22lbs?

 

I have a stock LB9 with a set of Dynomax turbo mufflers that flow enough for 500HP as a pair. The engine has two small turbos. I run Ford 30lb injectors with a stock GM TPI fuel pump at stock fuel pressure. At 10 PSI of boost, the injector duty cycle is around 75 to 80%. In the 1/4 mile it went 15.0 sec in a 5000lb vehicle (you can scale it to your 3xxx lb car). It makes about 300 RWHP at 10 PSI on 93 octane. It would put your car in the 13s.

24#/hr came in LT1
22#/hr came in TPI 350ci

EDIT: That is launching at 1200 RPM and shifting at 4600 RPM in a truck for the 15.0sec. The 700R4 trans. does not shift properly any more.

 

thanks for the info...

 

I was just thinking earlier today while flipping through Summit, would a power steering pump work for oil supply and return lines for a turbo? Wouldn't that be better, to have a small, standalone oil supply for the turbo, and also reduce the oil temps by not recycling hot engine oil? I was thinking of this, since I don't have A/C or Smog on my car, there is plenty of room on the engine to mount a second power steering pump and I also have v-belts which would be even better... It would be much simpler (in my opinion) to use a P/S pump. I would also mount a pressure gauge to monitor and make sure it doesn't die. How much pressure does a power steering pump make? Does anyone know? And how much pressure is adequate to lubricate a turbo?

 

I wonder how much power it would suck? I think it would be overkill, but you could just use a restrictor orifice, but that would make it much less efficient. Should be very reliable.

I would make a new thread.

 

yeah, I think I'll start a thread over at the chasis section. I just get the feeling that a P/S pump would be more reliable than an electric pump since my current P/S pump hasn't failed in 20yrs...

 

well, the PSP idea failed, so looks like I'm gonna have to stick with an electric oil pump... another question I have is that today I successfully acquired a stock 3rd gen exhaust system from the cat to the muffler (cut muffler off). Seems that the stock exhaust is 2in, is that too small? I figured it would be perfect... I'm still planning to wrap the whole exhaust. I currently have the 2460 Hooker headers with the 2.5in y-pipe up to the cat area, then its a 3in Flowmaster catback... so I just plan to remove the Flowmaster and install the stock and weld the turbo and WG flanges and such...

is 10:1 FMU with 24lbs injectors a good combination or is 8:1 FMU with 24lbs injectors better? This would be for a MAX of 7psi boost??? Thanks for the info guys...

 

Why won't it work?

Thats pretty damn small. Normally I would think abs. not, but with a rear mount, it might be fine, more velocity to get it spinning.

I think I would leave your exhaust on, and reduce it down to the size you need. The motor will breathe better, and it will pick up velocity at the reducer.

Generally stock injectors shut off at 73 psi IIRC. So 7psi x 8 + (40 base pressure/2)= 76psi. So your injectors would be shutting off as soon as you hit 7 psi.

 

The stock injectors on the 305 are smaller than a 24 i think around a 19, so those are bigger injectors than stock. so they should push in more than the stockers.... correct me if im wrong.

as far as the piping i think you should be fine hugo, that just means more getting to the turbo. but it is going to be something you have to play with. put the exhaust on and see how it does. later down the road up the size and see what it gets you.

as far as you message to me about the specs of the stuff, im pretty sure that the wastegate spring is a 7psi spring, illl call the guy i bought it from to make sure. ill also call him about the turbo specs, i think i listed the specs earlier in this post.... have to get to work so im not going to check it right now.

damn i just relized i missed a whole page of stuff, so much for me getting an email when something is posted lol.

 

It doesnt matter what size the injectors are. If they shut off at 73psi, then they shut off at 73 psi. An 8:1 fmu is going to increase your fuel pressure 8x per psi of boost.

I forget what stock fuel pressure is but you could just run a lower base fuel pressure. You would have to run 30 psi to be safe. I don't know how well thats going to work.

I could be wrong here, I'm not an injection expert, but this is a serious matter, I would post a new topic.

 

I got my t4 flange and downpipe flange in the mail today. I bought piping to weld to each and it seems the t4 flange is covered best by a 2.5 tube, so I went ahead and bought that and the downpipe flange has a 2.5 opening, so I bought it for that...so as it seems...its 2.5exhaust until after the cat, it will go to 2 over the axle, then 2.5 where the muffler would go... I'm waiting for a wasgate flange, and BOV tube... I plan to get the engine piping with my next check, and will use regualar exhaust piping for under the car...

I was going to go with an oil filter sandwich adaptor for the oil feed, but I think I'll hold that off later, I went ahead and bought the "tee" for the oil pressure sender above the oil filter. I had a 1/8th NPT female to -4AN male adaptor so I can run one -4an line for oil feed... I'm going to use a regular barbed line for the oil return and have it drain in the valve cover. I haven't decided if I want to cut a hole in the oil cap or cut a PVC type hole in the valve cover itself. I have a quick disconnect air hose coupler (like the one STS uses) lying around if I decided to use the oil fill cap...

Another question about the turbo oil system, on a remote mount, does the oil feed and return lines matter what orientation they are at? The way I'm planning to mount the turbo, the lines are going to be parallel (horizantal) to the ground, most turbo systems require the oil feed on the top and oil drain on the bottom (vertical)? I wouldn't think it would matter since I'm using an oil pump to return the oil and not relying on gravity...

 

You can "clock" both sides of the turbo so that you get oil supply on top and the return on bottom. The supply shouldn't be a big deal, just run t from your oil pressure sending unit. I was piecing together a rearmount turbo for my '97 Chevy truck, but had to sell it to pay off a very bad investment. Had 2 pieces of 2.5" exhaust tubing for the intake pipe, a couple of sections of 5/16" brake line to make my oil feed line, a mocal pump for the scavenge return and a roll of aluminum 3/8" line for the return. Since it was a vortec motor (with the funky injection) I was going to use a 6:1 Vortech FMU, and a custom tune from Nelson performance.

You going to have your MAF on the inlet of the turbo? (I haven't noticed if your SD) Another quick question, what kind of elbow or inlet pipe are you going to use at the throttle body?

 

I'm going to keep the MAF. Its a newer microtech unit which uses the circuit board instead of the fillaments which I believe it would measure the boost flow enough to not cause problems. Like stated above, I will switch to SD with the new engine... I already adjusted cold side housing but I don't want to mess with the exhaust side since it seems to be surface rusted...

 

another question I have is that for the timing, I've heard that 4* of timing should be retarded for every pound of boost? Is this correct? So if my engine plans to see 7psi of boost, I should retard the timing 28*? Will it be fine to leave it at 28* while driving it around? I plan to manual retard the timing by loosening the distributor and twisting around... and using a timing light... Will this affect driveability? or do I NEED to have a digital retard box?

 

Not that much. I have heard 2* per psi, but some guys that run 6 psi dont pull any timing. I don't have any problems pulling only 6* and I run 8 psi.

Every 2* of timing you pull is about -10hp/ft.lbs.

I would start out at 28* of total timing, meaning -8 pulled if your total now is 36, and check your plugs for detonation, then keep increasing it until you notice some, then back it off 2*. Don't worry about what your cruise timing is.

The other way would be to do it at the track, keep increasing timing until mph doesn't increase anymore, and back it off 2*.

If you are using the stock computer, I don't think you can just retard the distributor, you might need the retard box. I'm using a BTM right now, but I would like to sell it and upgrade so I can get a two step limiter.

 

HCR13, I think you'd be better off backing off the timing at first, but no where near 28*, I'm not sure it would even start if the base timing was backed down that much? If you're planning 6-7 psi, turn down the base maybe 4* and see where you're at. With the computerized distributor, I don't think you can pull timing up top without the BTM. If it was an older distributor you could adjust the curve of the timing. What'll be tough is monitoring the knock (detonation). It would be great if they made a scanmaster for the TPI cars, but since they don't, I'll be using a very old scanner that shows knock. Since Batass is running 8psi and only pulling 6*, I'm going to have the chip tuner pull a little timing up top and just keep adding methanol until the knock goes away (Then I'll get greedy and add boost, more meth, etc.) Just for reference, I'm running a total of 25* timing and 28# boost with my GN on 91 octane, and a ****load of methanol. I've been trying read up about the "hot-air" 84-85 Grand nationals (Non-intercooled) to see what their tricks are, Their compression is a little lower, but even not having an intercooler, some of them are pushing 23# on 93 octane by using methanol and not really lowering their timing too much.

 

ok, I think I understand, I think what I'm gonna do is back it off a little...I have an upgraded MSD ignition, minus the wires, those are coming soon (currently Accels)... running NGK plugs. I've ran a 125 shot of nitrous without modifying the timing and it ran great, I'm not experianced to boost...

 

Batass; how much do you plan to sell the BTM j/w?

 

Well its the 6462, its the msd box and btm. Probably very close to 200 bucks. It would go well with the rest of your msd stuff.

 

ok, sounds good. I won't get paid until next Friday (not this one). I'll have to inform you then if I'll have the funds to purchase it or not. I'd like to, but if there are other interests, by all means, go ahead and sell it...

 

I'm in no hurry. I'm still working on tuning the engine, so its handy to have. I need to replace it before I sell it too. Maybe I should work on that....

 

haha ok...

 

A friend is currently welding up the flanges and states he can weld up the cat back when its time... I have an FMU in the mail. I got it off ebay and its from a procharger settup that has the bleeder valve to make it "adjustable" which is good since I wanted an adjustable one... I'm still looking for fuel injectors and just need intake piping...

 

Just a small update. So far I have acquired most of the components for the settup... Adjustable procharger FMU ($40shipped). Mocal Oil Pump ($45shipped), both off ebay. I got -6AN lines locally for $50. I also got a timing light for $10 locally (flea market) and it works! I also have all the proper fittings to conver the TPI lines to -6AN and to connect the FMU. I got 24lb injectors for $35 (LS1tech.com). I need the intake piping for the front, and my welded bits. I plan to get the oil lines locally for under $40 front to back...

 

Nice. I'm surprised you found a used pump on ebay. So you pretty much just need the piping and oil lines. People laughed at me when I said it could be done for around 500 bucks. Just takes patience. Hopefully all the parts will last and be reliable. Can't wait to see it when you get it all together, maybe a dyno or track run?

 

yeah...just piping and oil lines. I am also looking for someone that has a wideband o2 I can borrow to just tune. I don't need one for permanent use just yet. The pump wasn't hard to find, but I think people were afraid to bid on it because it said "it leaked"...but I checked it out and it looks 100% repairable... It works 100% aswell, I connected it to the 12v and it sucks pretty well... Here is the acution

I definitely do plan on getting it dynoed after the install and track times... I haven't dynoed it now since I don't see much of a point. A friend has an 87 Formula with an overhauled LB9 and it put down like 170 to the wheels...

 

It leaks from that hole that the label covered up? I think that is supposed to be an indication of a seal failure somewhere. I'm not sure if it would be best to seal it up or just let it leak for fear of it building up somewhere it shouldn't. I don't know. I would talk to a mocal rep or somebody just to make sure that it isn't going to kill your turbo.

 

yeah, it occurred to me, but he mentioned he dropped it and I think it just cracked the housing.... I am also planning to put a warning light like the STS units to indicate too much pressure buildup before pump...

 

Well, that pump can also move water right? So the electronics have to be sealed off from any fluids.

Too much pressure build up? Like if the pump wasn't working? I would just put a pressure switch on the outlet side of the pump connected to a light. I think 15 psi should be safe. You can get those switches pretty cheap. I believe that pump maxes out at around 55 psi. I believe most car switches and dummy lights come on at 5 psi.

 

yeah, I'll have to look more into the pump. When I turned it on and ran it, I didn't hear or see anything out of the ordinary.... The part that is circled doesn't even seem to be where oil is coming from. I took the pump bottom apart and its just 2 couplers that are completely sealed off by the bottom section... there weren't any punctures or cracks. While opening, however, I noticed that the bottom part, the area where the 2 pieces meet, was a bit bent in from the impact, so I bent it back with some pliers... I plan to run oil through the pump before I mount it just the check everything...

 

Not much to worry about with a safety switch. Is a high pressure switch better than a low pressure switch?

 

well, STS has a high pressure switch between the turbo and the pump, so if the pump fails, the pressure would start building up (since the oil wont be evacuated) and probably cause smoking from the oil leaking through the seals.... I assume...

 

quick update on the project. I am about 97% complete in gathering the components. So far I have all the main turbo parts (turbocharger, bov, wastegate, boost gauge). I have all the exhaust piping AND cold piping. I just need an overaxle cold u-pipe. I have the oil pump. I ran oil through it after my last oil change and it seems to suck and shoot out oil pretty well. I did not see or notice any leaks, maybe time will tell. I also have the adjustable FMU. I had 24lb injectors from an LS-something or LQsomething, but they turned out to be way too small to use, both in lb's and actually physical size. While at the junkyard I managed to locate 28lb Bosch/Accel style injectors from a supercharged 3800Series engine. So I have those. I also have all tuning tools like a timing light and a wideband 02 sensor (TurboXS pro tuner..something, I got off ebay). All I need now is the previously mentioned upipe and oil lines to and from the turbo and some misc oil fittings. I hope to get this installed in maybe 3weeks or less. I'll defintely get some pics of the build and install. So far for tunning, my plan is to play around with my AFPR for the idle/no boost and the 28lbs (and using the wideband) and then the AFMU for the boosted parts...

 

I have a quick question and maybe you guys can help me out with this. I'm not 100% sure I can't replace the whole catback exhaust. Currently I have the hooker 2460's AND the 2.5in wye pipe. After the cat portion is the 3in Flowmaster catback. My previous plan was to replace the whole Flowmaster catback with the stock 2.5? or 2 1/4th catback. But now I'm thinking of just cutting the Flowmaster muffler off bolting the turbo to the 3in pipe with the proper flanges and extensions of course. I've been reading alot of the STS stuff and just remote turbos and this seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea. From what I've read, I KNOW its not going to spool faster, but its a daily driven car and I don't want full boost everytime I tap the throttle. That way I only get boost when I floor it and need it... Eventually I plan on getting the whole exhaust wrapped. What do you guys think of this? yay or nay?

 

I'm cheap (sort of...) so I would stick with the 3" Flowmaster system (which costs enough already....) and if you find that you don't like it cough up the extra cash and go with the 2 1/4" or 2 1/2"..... problem solved

 

yeah thats what I was thinking myself. I already have the factory cat back from a junkyard car but 1) it needs some repairing, 2) my welder guy lost his job, so any welding necessary from now on would have to go through a muffler shop and from what I hear they aren't cheap in my area thanks to the economy. I think I'll do that, that way I'll just cut the muffler off and bolt the flanged talipipe and not worry about cutting wye pipes and dropping axles or anything like that...

 

Are you gonna be reusing your muffler? If not what are your plans for a muffler?

 

no, I'll be getting rid of the muffler since I won't need one. I'm probably going to end up selling it since I have no other use or space for it...are you interested in buying it?

 

Nah just wondering what the car will sound like with a turbo in the place of the muffler. Any one got any video clips of this?

 

normally remote turbo settups don't keep the muffler, only underhood settups...

 

another quick update. I finally found a good welder guy (friend) thats going to help out with the welding. I also recieved my -4AN oil supply line. All I need now is a oil return line and to figure out the wiring. I've had no luck with the wiring of wideband, but I did call TurboXS and they sell replacement harnesses for about $50 which I'm willing to bite the bullet for... Here is a few snaps of the turbo tail pipe with the flanges welded on...

 

Looking good! How soon are you looking at installing it?

 

Honestly, I don't really know. I recieved the braided -4AN oil line to go to the back of the engine. Now I just need the return line and that should be it for any major components. Minus a few fittings here and there that can be had at Lowes. The only real thing holding back the project now is getting that wideband powered up. I had 0 success finding information online about wiring up my own harness for the TunerPro. I called TurboXS and they said it would be about $50 for the harness. So I think next paycheck I'm going to bite the bullet and just pay the $50 for the harness and we should be good to go...