I was making this thread just to see if there would be a interest in tpi intake manifolds for a m112 supercharger. A friend has a machine shop and he plans to make some intakes for a m112 to ls intake but he might make me a tpi one if he can sell others. so let me know if anyone would have an interest. Thanks Stephen

 

I might be interested. Get some more info and keep me posted.

 

Interested as well.

 

Sounds intriguing. Interested!

 

I can foresee hood clearance issues

 

Alll a better reason to showcase the S/C.

Im interested

 

What hood clearance issue do you see. The M112 I believe has the intake in the back of the charge and the plenum for the TB comes out around the side from the back. I don't see a hood clearance issue

 

It would be great if you're right. I have seen them installed in iroc and mustangs and both needed a 2" cowl. The stock hoods did not close.
My gta has no cowl and where the snout would sit there isn't hardly any clearance.

 

they are currently making parts to do them for ls1 cars and once they are done with those they will try this next. It actually looks like it would be close clearance wise and hopefully at the worst may need some hood brace trimming.But that will come and be determined when they mach it up. Thanks Stephen

 

Would be interested as well.

 

Any idea on a timeframe to get them done for our cars?

 

 

any word on these yet would be interested if price is right

 

About time! I hope this happens. I would be interested also.

 

i would be interested as well, would also like to know timeframe and price.

 

Anything ever come of this?

 

Kind of curious about this too. Any updates much appreciated!

 

Interested in the Supercharger

 

I'm interested as well

 

Will this even work? I have concerns about the distributor. Has anyone actually mocked this up or is this another pipe dream?



-- Joe

 

I am waiting them to finish up the lsx intakes. Their shop hit a little rut with this economy so it is taking them longer then expected. I will ask them this week about it and see. I put my GTA up for sale because im in need of money also and that would be the mock up car. If i can sell my 414sbc then that will give me some funds to give them to try to get this going. 6spd tpi m112 GTA that would be interesting. Put the word out if anyone knows someone waqnting a forged 414sbc with 177 supercharger all new. 6500. I will try to keep you guys informed but im busy 5 days a week for school now and 32hrs of work on the weekend. Thanks Stephen

 

Seems like it would be alot easier to simply tig weld injector bungs on a Weiand 142/144, then make a custom set of fuel rails, and elbow for the throttle body setup...

 

For that combo I'd probably go with an injector plate on top of the blower.

-- Joe

 

Or you could buy my other motor that has a polished 177 on it. This would be a cheaper option those superchargers 144 are only good to about 600hp with no bypass and are alot less effiecant. And say goodbye to hood clearance. With a eaton you will get better gas milage finish the swapcheaper and be able to replace the charger cheaper if something were to go wrong plus you could upgrade to whipples or kenny bells. Just saying.

 

Or run a centrifugal which is more efficient than both and better packaged

-- Joe

 

expensive most of the time and on top of that it isnt the instant power of a roots. I say either turbo if you want to wait or roots if you want it now why settle in between. Dont get me wrong you can run a way oversized centrifical to make moost of your boost off idle but it sill builds per rpm. Roots you pulley it to 12psi and you get 12psi no matter what rpm and you get it when you hit the throttle. Centrifical you pulley it and get 2psi off idle but dont make the 12psi till 6000rpm. Its all to what you want

 

how much for the 414 without the blower? what parts are in it, and what block?

 

So does roots. While a roots blower may make more boost early, they also flat line. The efficiency is about 50%. They are common on tire fryers that like to do burn outs, but run out of steam half way down the track.

The same engine combo will always make more power with a centrifugal over a roots. You can run more spark advance thanks to the cooler intake charge, and have more usable top end.

Roots blowers are a relic.

The 177cid for example with the recommended 1.71 pulley ratio produces just over 1,000 cfm at 6,000 RPM (crankshaft speed) at around 45-50% efficiency.

A small centrifugal, such as a P1SC will produce 1200CFM at the same crank speed, at 65% efficiency, or Vortech Si at 1150 cfm at 78% efficiency.

You can run more spark advance and make WAY more power than the ancient 177.

-- Joe

-- Joe

 

Yes a centrifical will make more power top end at redline but thats the same as having a supra with a 100mm turbo you have less usable power. Street car wise a roots style gives you more power at almost any point other then redline. And you may be talking about the old style lobe superchargers like that but the m112 is a screw type that is alot more efficiant. You cant put those 2 in the same catigory. Lobe is old technology. If you want a centrifical to make that peak power go for it but if you want more usable power go roots. Another good way to think about it is you have 2 cars first one is a roots that makes 500whp and the second a centrifical that makes 700whp which will win in a drag race and which will win in a roll race??? no huge stall or trans break just street car. They would run pretty close to even. Because on the roots you will stay at the higher power level from idle to 4500, car 2 would make more power 4500to 6000 for example.
Another way to see it if that is not clear is a car that makes 400whp NA vs a car making 400whp with a large turbo with a little lag. Which will be faster and in which apllication will each be faster???

Thanks Stephen

 

Not to make this an issue because this is your thread, but turbo's do not lag, or rather, are not supposed to lag. The only time a turbo will lag is when the turbo that is being used is the wrong one, and even then there are ways around that. Turbo's will always make more usable power, and I am not even going to get into the VGT turbo design. Speaking of lag though, do you wanna see something pretty impressive? This is a 224 cubic inch V6 with a 3200 rpm stall speed converter (even without the help of the nitrous, and zero boost), and the converter, from 3200 rpm will hit over 6200 rpm in just 2 seconds, while generating over 220 kPa manifold pressure, that is simply unbelievable when you realize that he is running a Borg Warner Airwerks S510/91mm turbo...

 

I've run a lot of different centrifugal combos, and all went very fast. I've toyed with the older roots stuff, and with the newer eaton stuff.

The M112 is a cute little blower, with a top of around 900CFM at 14,000 RPM blower speed, with air temps at 230*! Probably a good little OE type blower for a stock 4.6 or maybe 6.0 truck that needs a little grunt towing.

If I recall, Saturn ran a pair of M90's on his 305.

If you want, I can show you some 0-120mph logs showing boost vs rpm on a centrifugal. I assure you the party has arrived and in full force by 2500 RPM with a linear rise from there.

Again, efficiency plays a huge role. A centrifugal blower with an intercooler can run full advance. The roots blower will require serious spark retard, especially as the RPM's go up and it produces more and more heat.

-- Joe

 

You can intercool the roots also which these intakes would have room for. Which would help. And as i said if this supercharger isnt enough and you want more power you can always go whiipple or kenebell but this is mainly for a stock or mild motor. And if you run a turbo that is a bit large that will make some good topend power it will lag. Unless you have a lot of nice parts to make it spool faster. But on that subject i had a 4cly that i put a 42mm t25 turbo on and made 150whp same motor with 48mm t25 made 165whp but was a little slower coming on. You can get them to come on quick if you have the money and the resources. But for most of us this isnt possible. For the average person that wast to make some big numbers for say at the track to run off the trans break most would go with like a pt88 on the street though a similar motor would run like a 76mm. The 76 wont make nearly the same power as the 88mm at the same boost pressure but there will be more lag. Roll on wise for a street car the 76mm would be good and more usable most of the time. I know multiple people running a 80mm turbo on there cars and they are just drag cars and all of them off the trans break lag. Thats why almost all turbo cars professional or not pick up after the 60ft same reason why most turbo cars dont do big wheelies. But all in all everyone has theyre own likes and dislikes of setups. Some will go turbo because thats them others will go lobe style sc, others will go centrifical. It is to each his own. And all setups are different but this thread is for those who want to bolt on on a stock to mild motor a cheap alternative to a turbo or s/c. Thanks Stephen

 

You do bring up a valid point. The eaton would be a good match for a stock TPI motor, more importantly, stock cam. I could see the benefit in a street car running a M112 or similar since the motor won't see past 5k rpm anyway.

Do you have a drawing of what your plan is?

-- Joe

 

See. This is what happens when people use a discussion board to DISCUSS things and not turn it into a flame war. Two guys, two differing opinions talking with respect and coming to a concensus. Congrats to you both for the class you show. I was wondering if it would have enough flow to keep up with the engine. But i guess with a stock engine with little to no upgrades it should be fine.

 

Your turbo sizing is grossly over exaggerated. Doing the same over exaggeration with the SC would yield the same results. Put a couple of T3 50 trims on a bone stock 350ci and it will hit full boost before 2,500 RPM. That full boost can easily be higher than the SC full boost at 5,000 RPM. They are good to 500HP as a pair. What is the lb/min max? Both turbos and SCs are good. It just depends on if they are properly fitted to the application.

What is the cost of this "cheap alternative" ready to go with all brackets, belts, pullies? I am interested in it.

 

Any body?

 

I really don't know which tracks you frequent, but those statements are completely false. Turbo cars don't do wheelies? Are you kidding? First of all, wheelies are irrelevant for the street, especially in the city, not to mention they really don't help much in a real race. Second, it isn't just the overall size of the turbo charger that accomplishes a really good sixty foot, it is in the converter and gears your using with it. It is the whole package...

I would really like to see just how cheap this bolt on in its entirety is going to be...

 

Good question.. Are the M112s on the used market cheap like the M90s ? I know you can pick up M90s for 200-300 bucks all day, but they won't make enough power. the M112 on a stock 350 would, but if they are $2k might as well buy a vortech.

In fact, I think the base vortech kit (blower, pulleys, bracket, nothing else) is $1995 now. Since most of us do our own fuel and ignition anyway, it's a good deal.

I paid $1500 for my Procharger...

-- Joe

 

you can pick up a m112 for under $500. Im not the one making the intake but the plan was to use the stock lower tpi intake and it to bolt on to the intake like the stock runners. The plan was to try to keep everything else as stock as possible...... stock rails, and regulator, distributer, and throttle cable. They are going to try to just add it onto the stock belt location as so you can just get a longer belt. The price i dont know about yet. They are going to make the ls intakes first. They are looking into the cheapest options they can. They are talking about getting them cast and coming back and machining them. But as i said this gives you room to upgrade if you wanted to. You could go whipple or kennebell from here if you want bigger or im not sure what the mounting difference is but maybe evenn a m122 if it is not much difference. Im waiting on them on this i was just going to have the test vehicle for them to use. And yes you could use twins to speed up spool time but that is still getting into restrictions when you throw a small exhaust hosing into place. You arent really getting into the efficantcy of a turbo if you start creating back pressure. And yes converter and gears along with a good antilag. But on most cars they use a big turbo for the higher flow and more lbs/hr and use the bigger exhaust sides so they dont limit the rpm and cause alot of back pressure it would be as the other guy said with the m112 dieing off at 5k a small hotside would do the same and limit power.

 

I really don't see this happening. I think this is one of those things that will be dragged out forever and you will never see a final product. How is everyone's BBK turtleram working out?

 

Oh gawd, why did you have to remind me about that one...