I made a little progress, I grinded down the collector pipe because I was going to coat these but I changed my mind. Got the waste gate plumbed what do you think?

 

thats a huge gap to fill, it will be likely to crack after a bunch of driving but it could be ok.

Looks tight in there!

 

I ended up with a few large gaps when I built my piping, but we cut slivers of piping to fill them, and then welded those small pieces in place, rather than attempting to fill a huge gap with weld, which is asking for trouble/leaks. If I was better at geometry and measuring rather than eyeballing I wouldn't have ended up with gaps LOL

It's hard to tell in the picture, but is the wastegate just plumbed in at a 90* angle perpendicular to the one hotside pipe that goes to the driver's side? I'm sure that will work, but it's usually preferred to plumb it in in such a way that it is in the "flow path" of the exhaust, rather than a sharp 90* angle to the flow. If that makes sense?

Good to see progress!!

-Paul

 

yeah i ended up making a few slivers in some areas and then filling in the other spots with nice welds. i had the whole pipe aneeled so i hope it wont crack. the waste gate is pretty much at a 90 degree angle. there was like no other spot for it to be at. i was going to put mine like you did paul, off to the side near the fender but i didnt like how it looked and what it would do for my oil drain placement. i took this whole week off of work for spring break next week and i hope to finish the timing chain on my yamaha r6, and do a little bit of work on the camaro.

it wont be close to running, the drain will not be hooked up because i have to pull the oil pan off and to do that i have to drop the tubular k member, i wont weld a bung on to the pan with it on the car. most of the electrucal will be done. new sound, all gauges finished, 2nd fuse block put in and wires wrapped. i like all the opinions you can share!

 

Interesting...what is your plan for the oil drain? I have had ZERO issues with my oil drain thus far. No smoking or oil consumption of any sort. My drain is -10 and runs though a hole in the frame rail (hole was already there on one side, but I did have to drill it on the other side) to a bung that is welded in near the top front corner of the oil pan. I agree on taking the oil pan off. I wasn't able to get mine completely out of the car and it was a PITA, but I got it done with no adverse affects, no metal getting lost into in the pan, and no leaks, so far hahaha

-Paul

 

Well I planned on doing the drain just like you did. And if you could get me some good shots of yours if appreciate it! Well my pan is coming off because the gaskets already leaking, for some reason the one piece rubber gasket I haven't had good luck with. The rear lip is way to fat and just leaks. How bad will that waste gate location really be? I think it'll be just fine! And I got the timing chain off the bike already just waiting on parts for that to be done

 

I will try and get you some pictures of my oil drain the next time I have the car up on a lift. It actually ended up being a lot more straightforward than I was afraid it was going to be. Against a lot of recommendations I do have a 90* fitting coming directly off the bottom of the turbo (I had no other options!), but so far it has not proven to cause any problems whatsoever. After 10+ pulls on the dyno the car was not smoking at all and had used no oil. I did drop the pan and jack up the engine when I welded the bung into my pan, but because of the T-56 I couldn't get the oil pan completely out without either removing the transmission or dropping the k-member, neither of which I was in the mood to do, so I just worked with it in the chassis and then re-installed the pan. I've been using a fel pro 1 piece rubber oil pan gasket for years now and it seems to do the job just fine. What are you using for a 1 piece gasket?

My guess is that your wastegate will work all right set up the way you have it. If it doesn't work well you'll notice this in the form of boost creep and in general difficulty keeping the boost level down. With it installed at a 90* angle exhaust won't naturally flow to the wastegate, it will just be forced there by pressure built up in the hotside. I imagine it will do the job, but you'll just have to wait and see!

-Paul

 

What's so bad about a 90 of the bottom? And I am using a felpro one piece rubber. Ill just be going back to the cork one, that never leaked. And what's so bad about keeping the boost down? Or do you mean when I don't want the boost it'll rise

 

if the WG is oriented in a way that the gasses cannot easily flow into (90* bend) you can have trouble keeping boost levels down because even with the WG all the way open there is not enough flow around the turbine. If its right on the edge of being enough flow at low RPM the boost will be controllable, but as RPM (and flow) increase the boost level will begin to creep up - "boost creep"

Mine is at a 90* angle with a 50mm WG, and I can regulate down to 2 PSI so I think your OK

 

So wait maybe I'm not getting the full understanding because I'm not thinking of how the wastegate works properly. My first thought of how it works is that when you let off the throttle it notices a increase in manifold vaccum and opens the valve as to not over spin the turbo during shifting.

Now that I am thinking about it more.. The WG opens before the throttle is released. Heck it could even open at a lower rpm if that's where the boost level is where my spring is rated to. So I have the lowest spring in there now. 5psi I believe and the WG will open when it hits that boost level and stays open through the rpm range. If my WG isn't big enough it's rg-45, like you said as the rpm goes up if it can't release all the flow it'll make the turbo build a little more boost than desired, correct? I just had like an epiphany lol

 

I still think you'll be OK with the WG location, but if you have boost control/creep issues you know where to look

 

I'm pretty excited to finish this project! But the r6 has to be put back together first; which I'm waiting for parts on. What boost were you running ?

 

Alex has explained it perfectly. Here's a link to the instructions for my wastegate: http://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/i...structions.pdf Those instructions have some very nice pictures and explanation of recommended installation orientation. Like Alex said, I suspect your setup will work, but if you do run into boost control/creep issues that'd be a good place to look first.

The issue with having a 90* right off the bottom of your turbo for the oil return is that you want the straightest, most direct route for your oil return. Since the oil return is simply a gravity feed with no pressure behind it you want to make sure it has the easiest return route possible. 90's generally aren't recommended because they have the potential to create a bottleneck where oil may not flow as well as it should. Like I said though, I haven't had any issues with my oil return so far, and at this point, I wouldn't hesitate to do it the exact same way again (especially since I didn't have any other options LOL)!

-Paul

 

I'll be having fun putting it together this week for sure. Why not run straight line with it just making a big radius 90 to a straight to he pan?

 

If you have space to do a large radius 90 that would probably be fine. I didn't have space for that without ending up having a low spot in the line though, so I had to use the fitting, which has worked fine so far.

-Paul

 

FWIW I run a 90* -10 short radius fitting directly off of my turbo, and a very shallow drop to the block, WITH a 4" flat section and I have no oil drain issues

 

Good to hear I will be able to have options! What would you recommend running, normal spring operated boost control or a Manuel or electronic controller, Alex I know you had a problem with yours getting stuck? I think I may just run the spring controlled? Paul what are you using?

 

i had a bad solenoid that stuck shut, probably too much heat. I will go back to an electronic controller even though I had the failure, I think it was just bad luck many people run them with success and when they fail they SHOULD fail open. The electronic controller allows the turbo to spool faster

 

After goin to a Ams-500 boost controller i wont run another manual unless its a cheap budget build with no point in raising boost, like my planned remote mount turbo setup for my ls1 stock engine build.

The control and adjustability of the AMS is awesome. Pricey but worth it. I got mine in a group purchase so saves a good bit off the retail price

 

I have a Hallman manual boost controller and it seems to work very well! Not a cheapy ebay pos, but a very nice unit. I agree though, that the electronic boost controllers are nice, and I may upgrade to one in the future as finances allow. You will be fine with either an EBC or MBC, but I would recommend at least an MBC, rather than just running off the wastegate spring.


-Paul

 

Noob question, the ebc, if it changes boost level so quickly how would I go about changing t tune just as quick? Or is that not necessary?

 

wont be an issue, you'll tune yout MAP vs RPM tables for fuel and spark over all ranges of boost, the boost controller just get you to desired boost faster and holds it there. Set the boost low and tune up to that level, then slowly increase it tuning as you go

 

so i got alot of work done today. spent all day mostly doing it. i setup my battery relocation kit. ran the positive wire from the front to the back. i pretty much finished the downpipe, just have one more bend to turn it into my original exhaust. that downpipe will be a pain in the butt to remove when i need to.. but for the plugs i can do 2 from up top and 2 from below. the drivers side i can do in 5 min from up top. a part of me thinks twins in the same location would have been easier.. oh and i also installed all my gauges and got them working! only have to calibrate the speedo when i start driving it. what do ya think?

 

Gauges look nice!

 

Thank you!

 

beautiful weather we have had here! 73 degrees today with a nice breeze. unfortunatly i got squat done on the car due to me wanting as break. But i didnt run to summit racing to grab the last few things i need for the car. i picked up a msd 6a box pn6201, i bought oil lines and fittings, a 2 bar map sensor, and holley 83lb fuel injectors. hopefully by this weekend it is at my shop on a lift with the oil drain welded on, and then calibrate my tune and see if she starts!!!

 

So I called turbonetics and they said I have to run 3an line for the feed or ill blow the oil seals in the turbo. They says 4an would give to much pressure. Aren't you guys running 4an?

 

I am using -4 feed like to the turbo. I haven't had any issues so far. If your drain is working properly -4 should be ok. -3 would probably be ok too, especially if that's what they told you to use. FWIW a larger line would actually give you LESS pressure, but more volume of oil. Is your turbo journal bearing or ball bearing?

-Paul

 

I thought bigger line woul be less pressure, and he was arguin with me. Oh well I'll run 3 an I guess. It's journal

 

i run -4, t-netics told me there is a built in restrictor in their turbos when I spoke to them. Thats why I opted for the -4 over the -3

 

How does this look for oil drain location on the pan?

 

That's pretty close to where I welded the drain fitting into my pan. I think mine is slightly further forward. It worked out to be a good spot because the main bearing cap was there so there was no problem with windage from the crank creating an oil drawback problem.


-Paul

 

Well I haven't made it permanent yet so I can change it, how would I tell if I would get wind age

 

You just want to make sure the drain fitting isn't right in line with a counterweight on the crank or anything. Pretty easy to figure out. If it's right in line with a main cap you should be fine.

 

Okay I'll check, here is a shot of the down pipe and the evac system, coming along good?

 

So I got the rear end down to resealed the third member..question is do I put another walbro 255 in there so I know I won't run out of fuel?

 

The only spot I can put this drain is right next to a counter weight of the crank, that really going to be a problem?

 

I would while its down

you have put a lot of time, money, and effort into your build - do it once do it right!

 

So you wouldn't put it there? We welded the fitting on there in that place as of now :/ I didn't see any responses so I wasn't too worried, it's like inbetween the crank and main cap. If I have any problems how will I find out easily? Pull my dipstick and it'll be foamy? I spent all night(well the past 4 hours) doing the spark plug wires and buttoning up the oil pan/subframe. Girlfriend got tired of playing her 3ds and sitting at the shop so we left. Wires are loomed under the headers, ill get pictures of those up tomorrow. They were cut to fit style!

I can pull the rear end back down later not too hard. I was looking into doing a dual tank but I'd have to change my feed and return lines from the motor. An I don't really wanna because it's all nice sur&r line 3/8 feed, here is a shot of the turbo drain

 

how do you guys go about wrapping your pipes? do you wrap your flex pipes too? i have a friend here who has built a couple cars and he says i should dip the wrap in water first then tightly wrap it. doing it in water he says will make it tighter when it dries. then i want to silicone seal it, i like how that looked on your car alex. but to me water i think would make it rot quicker?

 

I can tell you my Walbro 255 was out of breath at 400 RWHP (granted it was old and tired, and a new 255 would probably support more than that). I don't know how far you're planning to take this thing, but I am pretty sure the single 255 won't be enough. I've got one of the new e85 compatible Walbro 400's (actually about 450 lph in the e85 version) in the tank now and it keeps things nice and rich at 15 PSI of boost pressure.

If your oil drain location is giving you issues you'll know it when you start getting a lot of oil smoke out the exhaust because oil can't drain out of the turbo properly. I'm confused as to why you couldn't line your drain up with a main cap. Mine is not in line with a crankshaft counterweight or anything and we both have small block Chevrolet engines. Either way, you've already welded it in, so try it and see how it goes!

As far as the header wrap, it depends on what type you use. Alex used the standard fiberglass type of wrap which does need to be soaked in water, applied wet, and then sealed after. I used "lava" wrap, which is made from woven fibers of volcanic rock. It can be installed completely dry, wraps nice and tight, does not need to be sealed, and looks sweet (almost golden carbon-fiberish) when installed. After hearing stories of people working with the fiberglass style I would ALWAYS spend the extra money on the lava wrap, but that's up to you. I did wrap my flex pipes, which seems to be working ok, but I couldn't get a good, consistent, tight, wrap at the transition from the regular pipe to the flex pipe just because of the sudden change in the size of the pipe. So far it seems to be working just fine though.

Looks like you ran your oil drain in the same spot I did! I haven't had my car up in the air for a while so I still don't have a picture of mine LOL

-Paul

 

Well shoot I was hoping to take this car to its max,
Sounds like ill have to end up putting some type of fuel pump on it. I wanted atleast 500rhwp. I got a shot of my wires for ya guys, I have woven boots still to put on them.

As for the drain location I think it might work the front main cap was so close to the edge of the rail I wouldn't have been able to put that top bolt in too easily. I don't know if I will know the difference between the oil smoke and evac exhaust smoke will I?

 

We got it running! Holley efi started tuning right away! Made 6 pounds on the 5 pound spring, but I think I have an exhaust leak

 

its all done! first time i took it out i pushed the downpipe right into the radiator.. so i went to summit and got an all aluminum 3" radiator and put it in. its like 4 inches shorter in width but it makes up for it i think in thickness. im excited to see how it runs on the dyno in the next few weeks!

 

Nice! How does it go? AFRs looking good with the Holley system tuning itself? How much boost are you running now? Still just running off the WG spring?

-Paul

 

It looks like 14.0 or so with it tuning itself. But I'm pretty sure the down pipe flange has an exhaust leak. It goes pretty good :-) I'm making about 6 psi with the 5 lb spring and yes still off wastegate spring only. It's weird either my tach is messed up or it doesn't start spooling till like 3700??

 

Nice! Make sure it's richening up under boost. You sure don't want to see 14:1 AFR under boost. Things won't last long. Funny you mention an exhaust leak, because I just started hearing a small one from mine today. Not sure if it's downpipe or headers/hotside, but I'll have to check it out and see!

My setup is pretty much completely spooled (15 psi) by about 3500 RPM, so if your tach isn't messed up you might have a boost leak, or the exhaust leak is big enough (and on the pre-turbo hotside) to be causing you issues...

-Paul

Edit: Compare your tach to what the Holley software shows and see if they are close. That's a place to start anyway...

 

Why not 14.0 under boost? I thought 14.7 was perfect? And I think the leak it after the turbo

 

14.7:1 is "Stoichiometric" for gasoline. That means (basically) it's the best burn of the fuel for the least amount of harmful emissions. A "complete burn" if you will. Someone else who can explain it better, please feel free to chime in/correct me. 14:1 is too lean for a boost situation though. Due to the higher pressures in the cylinder in a forced induction application you want to run the mixture richer to help keep cylinder temperatures down and prevent detonation. I have always read and been told that 12:1 is about as lean as you really want to go when under boost. My goal for when I have everything dialed in on my setup is to be between 11.5:1 and 12:1 under boost. More power may be possible by going leaner (peak power in a naturally aspirated engine is usually around 12.9:1 I believe), but at the cost of a higher chance of engine damage.

Hope that makes sense?

I just did a quick Google search and found this article: http://www.bristoldyno.com/tech/airfuel.htm

Explains it a bit better than I did here. Hope that helps!

-Paul

 

Nice build. After you get all the bugs worked out you are going to really like the extra power. at this point you are lean you need to richen it u. you are brave driving it that lean. it can melt pistons being that lean. with boost you don't want 14:7:1 you was its around 11:8:1 to 12:1:1 I run mine a bit richer than that under boost your engine would be happy around 11.8 or so I wouldn't go much leaner than that.