ZZ3Astro

Wasn't ignoring yall, I was sure the square tire was going to skip over every nail in the road!

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

its still making great power since it is aparantly done by 6k by the sound of it. 471 whp through an auto at such a low rpm is pretty good.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

I tried reaching out to Faster Proms twice by offering to send him a copy of Data Master, a copy of the correct ADS/ADX file to log data through Tuner Pro and even offered to come down and help with tuning just because he was using a 730 ECM, but you would think he'd know to data log too in order to get the tune right before putting it on the dyno. Oh I forgot he only uses HP Tuner and Holley. And it was painful to watch them turn the fuel pressure up to correct the lean AFR. I'm just lost for words about that entire situation! If you listen in the video you can tell how clueless Cleetus and the rest of the youtubers in the shop were when it made 470 RWHP on that junk tune!

Yup with a 700r4. It can be done, I've gone 5.80's with mine many times.

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

I don't think the Mini ram is done before 6K, I believe the tune was not right. Once they fix the tune he will be able take it to at least 6500-6700 rpm. Remember it is a solid roller too.

I feel the same way you do, it's all in the combo! I love seeing the look on peoples faces when I pop my hood at the track after I make my first pass and the first thing out of their mouth is "I thought he had an LS" My combo is working and I don't really see a need to change, I've had a FAST XFI with dual sync distributor on the shelf for at least a 1.5 yrs now. Just haven't had a need for it yet, been content for 4yrs with my current set up.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

What threw me were the stock L98 valve covers, I thought he was using the stock L98 block and displacement, I knew he was using better heads, intake and cam from the dyno video though, and that exhaust sounds sick. Yeah, it was annoying listening to Cleetus during the videos. Only because those guys, save for the son, don't realize all the time spent learning and fiddling with the GM code during the C4 days, as today it's all being handed to them on a silver platter with the technology that is out there. Bad @ss car though for sure.

Do ya see Joe & Steve, HEI's work....


- Rob

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I was going through some old PM's looking for something and found some between you and I back in July of 2009, and realized that's when I built the shortblock in my Formula. It was originally an 11:1 N/A motor in a second gen. When I sold that car to my buddy, I swapped the heads for some big chamber AFR 210s and slapped a blower on it. Ten years that thing still has oil pressure lol. That thing has Eagle SIR rods too haha.

Probably won't ever build another retrofit-roller build, that's for sure.


-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yeah, I'm kinda glad I stood with the EBL-P4 as well. Weather has been crappy here on the East Coast, but when I do have a chance to take the GTA out, she still drives around without a hiccup. Drives factory stock, even with the big cam, and stock throttle body. No idle dipping at any point in time, brakes work like factory even w/only a 700-RPM idle, very happy with the ECU system. Do you have any videos of your setup on the street...?

By the way Steve, very impressed with how you're handing the GTR's transmission.

- Rob

ZZ3Astro

It is hard to beat the factory ECU for driveability.. and yes HEI gets it done. For some reason this car has been a snake in the grass for me even from the original stock ecu code $59 days. No matter what I've done it has fought me in some (often several) way. The original car that set me off on this path was a stock TPI on some cheap iron heads and an HEI and trapped 112 in the 1/8 (albeit on an aftermarket ecu). For the record that car's entire existence consisted of a run up the road to impress customers and a trip the drag strip. I, on the other hand, drove my Iroc to other states, in all weather conditions with the AC on. That range of conditions exposes various weaknesses inherent in any new combination. The heat from 200 mile drives is much higher than a quick 0-120 up the road from the shop. But whatever. I'm over the current setup and will pick up with LS and see what happens.

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

EBL has been great for me, plus I've been messing around with these cars for a long time. I will always love my 3rd Gens! I just converted a video of my car at our local track racing a good friend of mine in his 2016 Pro Charged F-1A-94 Z06 Corvette he just got back from Vengeance Racing making 926 rwhp.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I don't blame you anymore Steve. I say go for it at this point....

That video grabbed my damn attention, your car is moving out. Yeah Vengeance Racing is no joke, his car will just keep getting faster and faster, but it was nice to see a third gen rip one of their cars outta the hole though. What were the trap speeds?

- Rob

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

On that pass I ran a 5.87 @ 121 mph with a 1.32 60ft. and I believe he ran a 6.32 @ 117 mph with a 1.47 60ft. That was the first race of our top 10 fastest street car list and we drew each other. I ended up being #1. My buddies Corvette since then has been under the knife getting a TH400, 427 LTX from LMR, a certified cage, Pro EFI, Direct port nitrous, and a F-1X Pro Charger. He will surly be out of my class. We also did some roll racing in Mexico and I walk away from him too! I was running 24lbs of boost both at the track and from a roll (no nitrous on the street).

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Freaking awesome, and very inspiring for this section of the forum.

- Rob

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So like low 9's in the 1/4 ?

Fast!

-- Joe

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

Thanks. That turbo has a 1.15 AR, but I know I need a bigger turbo if I want to go any faster. I need to measure back pressure to verify though. I believe that's why I'm always cracking my manifolds all the time AR is to small.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

thats a great running car, nice!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

Yeah 9.3x's all day.

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

You are correct my friend, I was looking at this Precision GEN 2 CEA turbo as an upgrade.
https://www.precisionturbo.net/Stree...et-Fighter/659

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That's fast..

I'd love to race a 9 second car but my old fat *** ain't climbing over a cage.

-- Joe

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

put some door bar swingouts in it.

ZZ3Astro

The older I get the more I think about safety.. just hate to ruin a 97% street duty car with a cage. Easier to build a later model I guess for that reason alone, not to mention the pre-installed LS. I need to make some decisions on this Iroc some day. Luckily I've been able to put that moment off for years being stuck in the low 7's 1/8th

So I found out on the GTR that the FWD clutches in the "slightly used" and "great condition" Shep 2.5 transmission were burned up so bad that the shop (the second largest GTR transmission shop around) told me they were among the worst they'd ever seen. Rest of the transmission seems ok but makes you wonder what it has been through to do that to the FWD clutches. I'll have the rebuilt part back on Weds and finally get that car back to being what it is supposed to be.

Just got my shop AC unit back online today so I'll be able to build through the cold weather ahead. Hopefully I can get this 49 buttoned up and it's gonna be 5.3 Iroc time. I keep going by the guy's house that has the L33 but he is never home. I guess they had Verizon because both numbers are no longer in service so he probably switched without porting. Of course I just bought an RV to replace my totaled RVs so my progress will be slowed down with some weekend trips, but I will get the 5.3 going pretty quickly once I start the process.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

No Country For Dirty Old Men.... yes, I paraphrased lol.

That's almost comical, and it does explain why the seller as well as any shops associated were quiet about it. Then again, with 900 horsepower, and with some miles on her, I'm sure she was enjoyed the hard way and was passed around (hehe). You got guts my friend to pull that transmission apart the way you did. Good job. I will say this though, you now bonded with the GTR, it isn't going anywhere lol...

- Rob

ZZ3Astro

Actually he was a little north of that on (crank) hp. Obviously he was a big spending customer which could explain why the shop was hush about any concerns. Heck, they were probably the ones datalogging it and telling him he needed a new trans in the first place. Karma will be around to handle them down the road.

As for selling it or not, let's just say one plan floated is to sell it to get the equity out of it and put it with my existing 06 Duramax and pick up a 2019 Duramax free and clear. Let's see.. no gtr payment, no gtr maintenance, get rid of one insurance bill, pick up a full new truck warranty AND a free extra spot in the shop - all at no monthly cost.. tempting to say the least. But then no 900 hp GTR. But that new truck could sure pull the Iroc to the dragstrip nicely!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I go back and forth on this in my head. I think for the cage to be in the legal spot, even with swingouts, the bar stubs will still be at my shoulder. When I'm in the car I'm basically against the door panel as it is. I don't think I could tolerate a cage.

I'd love to sit in one of you guys cars with a cage and see how it is, but I don't think there is a caged thirdgen within 500 miles of me.

I do have this dilemma where my engine is faster than my chassis is legal for at the track..

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I agree. I have a 2012 GMC that's my tow rig. I'm on the fence about trading it in for another duramax. I don't have horses anymore but I still kinda like having the dump body since I own and maintain multiple properties.

An enclosed trailer is definitely the way to go. Haul it to the track.

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... and they also both devalue nicely as well. An Alpha GTR will only increase in value. Your '49 will obviously be your preferred choice for a car show, and the Iroc, well, nobody really cares for it outside of the third gen world. It has no value save for sentimental value, and it will never compare to the GTR, especially at top speed on the street. A Duramax? For what? You live in Florida, not to mention you're in information technology (IT) not construction. What do you need a truck for when they can be rented to do a quick job around the house then be brought back when finished. I can understand if you were in the tree removal business, but IT?

- Rob

ZZ3Astro

Street Lethal, this is definitely a thought that crossed my mind. At some point the R35 production will end (I believe this will be the last year based on sales numbers for 2018). What will happen when the supply is finite is anyone's guess, but I tend to agree with your thoughts that the value could increase. I believe I can make the market go up or down simply be selling or keeping it. My luck is it will move up if I sell and drop if I keep it! One thing is certain - the Duramax will drop over time and faster than the GTR. I've also threatened to keep the GTR, sell my CRV to the business and then trade my truck and CRV funds towards a new truck. As for why.. because I really like driving a diesel truck. While I don't need it on a daily basis, I do haul my tractor and cars around. But the bottom line is I like the way it sounds, drives and smells (although the DPF on the new one might not satisfy several of those traits). I haven't looked at those trucks in a year or two and I wasn't too impressed when I drove them before, but I will take a second look in a few months. Maybe I'll end up keeping my 06 if I still don't like them any better.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

RS Chris

X2. Who cares about comparing an 80's and 90's icon to a boring GTR (no matter how much power). Thirdgens are coming back into popularity, from what I have seen. Any clean one is going to be pricey today vs 10 yrs ago. And I'll also agree about resale value, that only matters to some. Sounds like unloading the GTR would bring about a lot more options for new vehicles and funds for others which is always nice. Keeping the GTR would mean money going out. And no IROC, lame. Also not just more money, but the GTR would most likely sell quicker vs the IROC.

ZZ3Astro

The GTR has its place in my garage like any other car The Iroc is certainly a different experience than the GTR but I like them both in their own way. I'd keep them all just like I did with hotwheels back in the day, but as we all know there is maintenance and garage space (which has its own maintenance costs). The hurricane really threw me a curve ball and otherwise I was on the path to making more storage space for more cars, with little intention of selling any - even when I was ranting about the Iroc. My list was growing and I had a specific Model T in my sights with future plans to acquire a 5.3 FWS Monte SS (don't ask!). Losing the pole barn set me back a good ways on space for those cars and made me realize the weather will decide just how safe all those vehicles are, regardless of whichever affordable structure I put them in. Now is the time to start working towards stepping up to a less affordable but hurricane proof structure for the house and a future shop (ICF). If I'm going to have a fleet I want to keep them safe from damage and I'm not about to move away from hurricane country.

As for resale value.. I'm the type that is always looking at future value, expected gain/loss and an overall exit strategy. I do this with real estate and any financed vehicles just to have a plan in place to survive the unexpected. Anyway keeping vs selling... Iroc is almost pointless to sell because it won't bring enough to be worth selling and doesn't cost enough to keep to make it a real concern for maintenance costs. Selling the GTR means speeding up the timeline of upgrading the truck and house. Keeping it just means more time needed. The dilemma? Hurricane season is right around the corner again!

86CamaroDan

Guy around here had a melt down because his new ZL1 lost money on resale value. I said the same thing to him. few weeks later hes out running around in a new hellcat he overpaid for.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

I tinker with cars because it's fun. Not to make money.

I'm not a fan of the GTR, it just looks like any other import to me. I didn't even know it was special until Steve pointed it out. I've seen them on the road, and would have guessed them to be a $25,000 car. Go figure.

With that said, I don't think the GTR has much to do with the Iroc, a truck, camper, or whatever unless it's a financial issue and he cannot support everything. That's his own personal deal for him to figure out.

I say if you have the money, buy whatever toys you want.

There was a time when I used to spend a heck of a lot more on horses than I did cars. Thousands a month. My last horse crossed the rainbow bridge in October, and my barn is already half full of car and ATV crap lol.

-- Joe

ZZ3Astro

I hated GTRs when I first actually looked at one in 2012. HATED. Laughed at the car and especially the price. A year or so later I owned one! It didn't much effect on my appreciation for the other cars though.. I don't think I could be happy with only the GTR, just like I couldn't be with only the Iroc. It does set a high standard in its ability to perform and still have ice cold AC on the hottest day with no overheating. Something I have struggled with on the Iroc over the years. Anyway I'm new to having the option to have several toys and I'm still trying to find the ideal combination and number of vehicles. If I had a free garage and someone to wash and maintain them, I'd definitely keep every car I could get my hands on. As it is, I need to look at the bigger picture and not overspend on these cars and make sure I'm diverting the right amount towards investments etc.

Speaking of the cars.. I am still trying to catch the L33 guy at home. I hope he still has it. You guys think I'm going the wrong direction trying to go with an aluminum 5.3? I figure the whole idea of the 5.3 is it is cheap so if it blows up I will just get an iron 5.3 next time. Besides this one is going to be very cheap. Also got the transmission back in the GTR last night, just need to get the driveshafts hooked up and put the rest of the car back on. Very tempted to put the Iroc on the lift and do a quick 5.3 swap before I continue on the 49/4200 project. But I'm so close to having that thing ready to start that its hard to put it off any longer.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Some of the guys here may think I am bashing third gens, when I'm really not. I'm the guy defending them on this website when someone compares them to a newer vehicle and says they can't compare. Nobody is comparing an old F-Body to a new GTR here. What I am saying is, rather than invest money into a car with zero return, stick with what you already have because the very fact that it is an Alpha GTR will demand a higher price in the years to come. Not advocating buying a GTR, I am suggesting for him to keep it because he already has it. Supra's are approaching no man's land in terms of price, as well as earlier Skylines, and GTR's will follow. Not too long ago a '93 Cobra sold for six figures, when prior to that, nobody even cared about them. Now guys here are trying to drive the 1LE prices up because they feel left out, and they will go up. This is because our cars are now in that restoration and collectible era, you guys forget it is now 2019. People are now racing to put their Fox bodies back to original hoping to emulate what happened to the Cobra.

If it's not a 1LE Camaro though, then throwing a lot of money at it will net you zero in the years to come, but that is perfectly okay for someone looking to keep the car for life and run it at the track. Something Steve will get bored of doing. Guys here who are applauding his Iroc build will not be the same guys making a bid on it if you ever decide to sell it again Steve, that is when they will turn away, and that is what you need to remember. Who will buy it. You tried that route already, and you weren't too happy with the responses you were getting years back. That may not mean much to most who are saying "who cares, build it, it's cool", but life is very unpredictable, and unless you have six to seven figures earning interest in a bank, then you should care. I stood with the GTA because it is rare, and purposely modded it in a way that can easily be put back to stock, and I kept everything I removed. It will sell in a heartbeat at the right price, and I can consider it an investment because I made more. If it were an LO3 Trans Am, I would have gotten rid of it a long time ago, or just ran it into the ground because it would be a total loss for me as it aged.

Maybe someone younger, or someone looking to build a grocery get'er may disagree, and I understand, but Steve is not a kid anymore, most of us aren't. It's the body style you guys are looking to preserve, you want to keep it alive. I mean big block turbo swaps, LSX swaps, hell it isn't even classified as a third gen anymore when you go that far, so understand there is zero return because it simply will not sell for what you want when all is said and done. The other two projects of his have the potential to annihilate the Iroc, while keeping their value, if not being worth even more in the years to come, which is why I say sell the Iroc. Don't keep putting money into it unless you accept and have already come to terms with pissing your money away deliberately. My two cents Steve, I try to approach this as rationally as possible with you...

- Rob

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

would need many years to get to collector status on that gtr. being an alpha could make it collectible though i would agree. for now though, value is dropping on it.
values on NICE 3rd gens are going up now. i mean they have already hit rock bottom.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

No no, I agree with you Dig. But remember, the very fact that Steve even bought two GTR's in the first place tells us that he is not exactly third gen brand loyal. He's open to anything, anything fast, and anything cool, which is awesome. So rather than drop a whole bunch of coin into the Camaro, then having to rip it all apart when he is done with it to salvage and re-coupe expense, why not put it into a car that will hold its' value and then some from the getgo. Hell, if he would have kept that newer Camaro he had and not gotten a second GTR, I would have been saying the same thing, get rid of the Iroc and take that newer Camaro to Vengeance Racing and call it a day.

BTW, did you see the 1/8th from the FasterProms C4? Very quick for a 90's oriented build, would have cleaned up big time on the street.

- Rob

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

yea he needs to either fix the trans or adjust the rev limiter.... very nice mph, i would still like to see an rpm based dyno graph for the car, and there is probably alot of power left on the table with that ecm. to be an early 90's efi build it is very quick.

one of the newer factory "race" cars with a warranty is pretty dang tempting if you are sick of working on them. hellcats and the like. but thats gonna run you $70k. maybe this alpha gtr will prove itself reliable though and be a good and very quick car.
i still believe the 3rd gen platform is an ok investment. if its nice, the value is going up. manybe not up like a supra, but up nonetheless. aftermarket parts and stuff are typically going to be a wash anyway you look at it, imo. i have a friend with a rediculously low mileage mint c5z with $40k+ in aftermarket parts he is trying to sell right now for maybe $7k over what the car in unmolested condition would go for. -a legit 8 sec. street car with a/c and looks/sounds like stock.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Alright Dig, now he is just inspiring the hell out of me with that build lol. He just updated. Stick with the Gen 1 Steve, posting this to inspire you too. Cleetus is even making me feel freaking old with what he's saying, and I'm still young yet lol.

- Rob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nxYxLtwNDo&t=960s

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Sorry to hear about your mom Steve, she's in a better place though now, and no more suffering.

Stay strong & God Bless.

- Rob

ZZ3Astro

She had a good long life of nearly 89 years and we can celebrate that. I just hate how the past four months since the hurricane displaced her 400 miles away were so rough on her and that I was powerless to do anything to resolve it.

Thank you Street Lethal.

ZZ3Astro

Couple of updates.. While we were arranging mom's funeral, my fiancé's dad had a heart attack. He died a few days later - the morning of mom's funeral of all days. Unbelievable four months we've had. I needed some wrenching therapy so finally worked GTR over the weekend and it now has AWD again. One more funeral this week and then I'll start to focus on getting the 49 running. The Iroc 5.3 project will have to wait until I have the 49 back on its own wheels. Hopefully that will be around April but I will be collecting parts in the meantime.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That's rough, Jeez.. We recently went to a wake ourselves, my wife's friends' father had a heart attack last week, died soon after at the hospital. Daughter took it very hard. It's amazing what's been taking place lately, feels surreal. This will sound like a cliche, but it's true, and that is time heals all wounds. Just be there for one another to pull yourselves through it because after the shock wears off, it gets very rough because the finality starts to settle in, and that is the most difficult part.

- Rob

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Wow, you've had a rough few months buddy. I hope things get better for you soon.* Sorry to hear about your mother's passing. My mother passed in 2014 (cancer) and it was rough for a while. I'm optimistic for you that you and your Fiance both have support in each other to get you through these times.*

When you have a moment shoot me some pics of the '49 if you don't mind. I'm looking for a project for next summer and I was thinking something along those lines.* I was cleaning out my shop the other day and I have soo much SBC stuff it's not even funny, some fully ported heads with 2.02/1.60 valves, vortec heads, intakes, 4 bolt main blocks, and a complete LT1.* I need to either put it together for a project or have a giant garage sale.

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Pretty sure Steve has close to like fifty videos on youtube of that '49 project of his, very detailed....

Sorry to hear about your mom too Joe, it's rough, I know.

- Rob

ZZ3Astro

Thank you all. Anesthes my videos probably have what you're looking for on the 49 but let me know if you need anything and I'll send it or post it up for you.

I have made the FIRST purchase of the IROC LS repowering project! I ordered a Hooker 8510HKR Turbo Exhaust Manifold Kit. This would be ideal in terms of it being compact, cast and reasonably cheap. The downsides are the lack of room for a downpipe and I'm not convinced the drive side manifold exit is in the optimum position. Looking at the other thread using this manifold set, it looks like the output of the passenger side manifold is in a perfect location to reach my existing turbo position.

As an experiment I ordered the kit from the cheapest possible source on Amazon, which has a 25% negative rating but saves about $75. I'm certainly in no hurry to get it and so I'm willing to wait if I'm saving money. If it doesn't work out, I'll just sell it and saving money on the buy means losing less if I don't use it. Before I start this project I have to get my 49 running. I decided on an available transmission crossmember that is a bolt in for the 4L60. I expect slight modification but it will save me at least a week or two over having to fabricate one. Just waiting on it to deliver and I will be a long ways towards putting that car back together and starting on the Iroc.

no new tires

O.P., do you still have your other gauge cluster in lay? The one you didn't like because it put 2 gauges under the steering wheel.
I might buy it-