anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I ran an edelbrock drop elbow and had to run it sideways to fit under the formula bulge hood with a 6" manifold.

Unless you are running a cowl hood, I'd consider something else.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Custom elbow made with a wide plenum to make up for lack of area would be ideal. When you get low drops like the lsx world, you take some performance hits

Boost can make up for it tho

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I was concerned about cylinder distribution. Years ago a buddy of mine at MIT did some dry-flow modeling of elbow radiuses for me when I did a singleplane on the Corvette back in 2006. Anyway, it really opened my eyes up to where the flow is and isn't in an elbow.

Obviously under pressure this isn't as much of a problem, but it makes it very hard to tune when not in boost.

This elbow flowed the best:






This is the edelbrock 'low profile' 3848 elbow I ran on the Formula 2 years ago:




This fit under the buldge of the Formula hood, but had flow/distribution issues as indicated by plug reading. I don't have a sequential fuel setup so I couldn't trim the injectors. (I only have four injector drivers).


Just food for thought. I'm back to the miniram.


-- Joe

ZZ3Astro

Damn.. thanks for all the posts on this setup. Not looking promising then. I checked the elbow I got and if side mounted it won't clear the fuel rail without a spacer either! Why would they make a drop that drops so far you must use a spacer? Why not just make it drop less since the end result is the same clearance? And why is that thermostat housing made so high? Grrr

If I did it forward facing and kept the throttle body as close to the water neck as possible without hitting, is there a chance a 2 or 3 inch cowl hood would clear? I'm still waiting on my heads so I can't do any test fitting yet. I know there is a low profile thermostat relocation housing available that might make it work forward facing. **EDIT** screw that, $176 no thanks

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Which is why I was running a 6" tall intake.

On the C4 pictured above, I milled the intake down to 4ish inches. The custom elbow curves over the fuel rail. The problem is, that intake is only available in a 1205 port and my AFR 210 heads needed a 1206 to cover it. I should have just welded that intake (as I had one in the shop), and ported it to 1206 but I decided to buy a 1206 cast intake. That forced me to use a off the shelf low-profile elbow.

This is all because I swapped out the AFR 195s for 210s because Tony mamo convinced me my 412 needed more cylinder head.


No. They make another low profile one for LT1 singleplane conversions, but it crashes into the water neck. If you try to spin a 3848 or any of the others forward you'll need a 4" cowl. You have like 9" total from the top of the china wall (front) to the hood. I've got all these measurements written down in my little book but anyway, the point is no. It's not gonna happen. When using a forward elbow and LSx throttle body you need height to clear the thermostat because the throttle body is soo much bigger than a twin bore TPI throttle body.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Drill the heads for water outlet if accessories arent in the way. Block off the intake and run remote t stat

Mine had a 3" rise and a divider in the middle to help distribution. But required a 4" cowl. I made it tall for distribution concerns

ZZ3Astro

One of my Youtube subscribers has an Edelbrock Pro Flo XT he isn't going to use. He doesn't want it and is sending it to me for the cost of shipping. It's complete from rails to regulator! But it is non-vortec so I'd still have to order the intake, but I can use everything else. It gives me another option if the Victor doesn't work out. Also I am going to put it on Panhandle's flow bench and answer the question the internet could not answer: what is the cfm of one of the ports on that intake? I've heard the runners aren't huge on it. Having the larger LS throttle body would be nice but if it's stuck going through poor flowing runners there would be no real advantage over the Stealth Ram except I think the hood clearance is a little better.

ZZ3Astro

Ok boys.. time for a photo update for a change. I was going to put the heads on this morning until I found one of the valves had a lil issue.. the keepers were not fully seated into the retainer. I don't have anything here to compress a valve spring on an uninstalled head so I made the drive down to the cyl head shop. He was upset that he let this slip through and immediately took care of it.


Tonight I finished cleaning up the head bolts and got them torqued down to the specs. Also installed the pushrods and rocker arms but will wait on final adjustment until my back recovers from the day's activities. And I installed the new harmonic balancer. I've got a few more things to take care of on the engine before it goes back in permanently, though I might temporarily install it tomorrow so I can mock up the various intakes. My Pro Flo should deliver Thursday. Unfortunately I have a trip planned (but with a really pretty blonde so it's worth it!) so no progress this coming weekend will be made on the Iroc. For now, enjoy a couple of photos of the situation..

86CamaroDan

Looks good. Im torn between a set of those and the vortec AFR's. Cant wait to see how this turns out

ZZ3Astro

So here is my whole setup mounted to the engine outside of the car. It isn't a "pretty" system but that is pretty much mandated by the limited space in our cars. Just to make it fun, the new heads' exhaust flange bolts are spaced slightly farther apart than the L98's, so now I have to grind even more on the end bolt holes on these flanges to fit those end bolts in.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You're in for a world of difference Steve, good work...

ZZ3Astro

Intake has arrived from my Youtube subscriber.. it's complete with 30lb injectors and an Aeromotive regulator! Obviously the injectors will have to go, and this isn't the Vortec version of the intake, but the other parts save a bunch of money. I can tell this intake will easily clear the Iroc hood, so my next thing will be getting some flow numbers and dimensions. I like it though.. just depends on the runners. It definitely has a ton of material left to open up the runners if needed. I am surprised at the bulge for the injectors though. More thoughts on this intake next week when I'm back.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I like that intake

ZZ3Astro

Engine is temporarily back in the car for planning and measurement. I really like the way this Pro Flo XT intake looks with this setup. I'm going to test fit the Super Victor for fun but I don't see any way its going to work without cutting whatever hood I put on there. I'm also going to notch the passenger frame rail to make more room for installing and removing a 4 inch downpipe.





And I am debating on the need for roller rockers. I don't think so yet, what do you guys think? My 224/224 cam should limit rpm but once I go with a real bottom end and matching cam I'd definitely go for some rollers. Still might do it though, just trying to pinch pennies where I can for the moment.

no new tires

Go BIG, get the rockers.

project89

iTrader: (1)

if u dont get rockers make sure the slot in the stamped rockers is long enough to handle whatever lift that cam has

if the slot isnt long enough the rockers will crash into the studs and cut them right off below the pivot ball

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The magnums are fine for a cheap upgrade over stamped. If you build it, change cam and throw in some stout springs and pushrods and a roller rocker

ZZ3Astro

I don't expect to keep this existing bottom end together too long. Definitely will upgrade to rollers sooner than later. It might take longer now - I just found the most amazing thing locally and might have to buy it. A guy is selling a third gen 9 inch complete with torque arm, LCAs and what appears to be a 4" aluminum driveshaft. It's a 3.42 which I think a 3.08 or similar would be best, but the whole rig is $2k.




Speaking of driveshaft... if I'm making 700-900 to the rear wheels what should I be running? Certainly the stock one is not happy or safe. I do have a loop at least.


Anyway that 9" is absolutely needed and the price is right. I just didn't want to spend the $$ right now having just dumped all the other money into the heads/intake etc. Always works out that you find the deals when you aren't ready.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I love the way that intake looks, and the fact that you can use the monoblade throttle body.

With that said, when I looked into it, everyone said it couldn't be ported past a 1205 port. That probably isn't an issue with the vortec heads though, right?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Spohn extreme duty driveshaft in my car, i believe. Dont think its the top gun

ZZ3Astro

That's kinda what I'm thinking. I'll just have to order the Vortec version and see how it matches up to these heads. Last night we stuck the Super Victor on and even with only a 1.5" spacer (a 2x6!) under the elbow, the hood is 3 inches from closing at the front. And that's before the throttle body, not to mention it requires a 2" spacer to clear the water neck. And to be honest, as much as I love the look of the Victor intakes, the Pro Flo just fits the overall engine configuration better. So it looks like i'll send that stuff back and exchange for the Vortec Pro Flo.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah single planes are nice but most always requires a cowl hood

ZZ3Astro

What a day for the Iroc! I now have:


Moser 9 inch with 31 spline, Spohn adjustable torque arm, tubular LCAs, LCA relocation brackets, SRT brake calipers, 3.42, unknown posi unit, 3 inch aluminum driveshaft


Spohn K Member (not my first choice but..), Spohn tubular control arms, drop spindles (not sure if I'll use yet), QA1 coil overs, some kind of larger than stock anti-sway, poly engine mounts, early CTSV brakes


Northern 4 core aluminum radiator and dual fans with custom aluminum shroud, transmission cooler loop embedded


Also grabbed up a set of ROH 17" wheels with some old 2004 tires. Wheels in decent shape. Not sure if I'll use them or not but the price was right. Also he threw in rear lowering springs, a Wilwood proportioning valve and a shift cable since I just broke my brand new one when the tranny caught on it coming out. Also just because it was there for the taking, a set of SLP tri-Y headers and Y pipe.


A few other odds and ends in there as well. I can't believe I ran across the guy selling exactly the parts I needed. I might have to change the front QA1's and springs depending on the rate. And the brakes may be too big on back but he gave me the unused drum brakes that came on the rear so I could use those so I can put 15's on at the strip. I got everything for less than I could do a new 9 inch delivered with no brakes so I am a pretty happy camper tonight!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I've not been very happy with my Spohn K-member since installing it last winter. Even using the special spohn tie rods, it rubs the K-member.

Anything that potentially disrupts steering or braking concerns me.. Not sure what I'm going to do. I hope you have better luck.

-- Joe

ZZ3Astro

The thought has crossed my mind to sell it and use a BMR. I told him I wasn't too crazy about getting the Spohn but needed everything else. I noticed the steering components looked extremely close to the front of the K Member.

topless87

If you had the funds I would say carbon fiber driveshaft. I saw "Daddy Dave's" broken one in 2 pieces and sitting against his wall, signed. But he is making ALOT of power.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Race craft moly Member here, got it new from a guy in canada for the same price as the UMI. Stupid light, fit like a dream and not 1 issue with tie rods etc ( i run moog problem solvers) The cross bar is so far forward compared to most (UMI double bar etc) that I could prob remove my LS oil pan with motor in the car i have that much clearance.

Nice score on the parts though! Alittle jealous of the brakes and rear... even if I got BAER 13" fronts they aren't the CTSV's which are dead sexy. Put those on some 14" rotors and BAM!

For the DS I vote Denny's nitrous ready DS. Ive had 2 for 2 different setups and you couldn't break them if you wanted to... and if you do he replaces it for free . They are 3" DOM "secret steel" an't aren't light per say but thats not an area I would skimp on strength. If it breaks image what it would do lol.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Could you email me some pictures when you get a chance of the K-member?

I may have to cut and re-work my Spohn unit. It's a dumb design.

Honestly, I like everything about your build. Kinda wish I had gone that direction. I'm half tempted to throw the SBC in one of my Vettes and start over on the thirdgen.

As far as driveshafts go, I'm running a stock 1LE shaft. I've always thought of the driveshaft as a "fuse" per say. I'm also running a 10 bolt, and i'd rather break drive shafts than rear ends. I think it's a reasonable combo for a 600hp or less car. You guys who are making nearly a thousand HP need quite a bit more.


-- Joe

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Sure thing. I'll post them here in case the OP is interested. The moly Kemeber is $499 base, engine mounts, stock spring brackets, bolts etc will run you about $700 plus the ride. Not cheap but I can't express how clean the TIG welds are and the flawless finish and fit. Says you can't run stock Aarms...idk how accurate that is. But any stock style tubular will fit.. Ive been running the 1st style UMI tubular arms and it fit perfectly.

Thank you for the kind words about my build. I'm loving it so much more than the extreme combos ive had. Throwing a LQ9 cam, new OE valve train, retrofitted bushed rockers and rebuld heads with basic port work in the off season to get the 150k OEM stuff out and bump power output to 6k.

Understood about the DS, different view but I would agree with that. Depending where they fail tho and how fast your going they can make quite a mess of the underside of the car which my giblets are awfully close to the floor lol.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I have the pa racing now and its in but not fully done yet. Seemed to fit fine but looks physically weaker than my umi road race double bar and gussetted design. But its lighter by fair amount since its designed as a drag kmember. A arms are thin so we shall see. I did not spring for the moly setup. It does look similar to the racecraft one above but i opted for no motor mounts

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Not as much as you would think. Its only 2600 lbs and can run 4.4's in 1/8. ~1700-1800 ish hp. Alot but there are some heavier street cars getting near that on steel shafts just fine without the added expense.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

UMI uses a double bar design. This is very close to the bottom thickness of the stock Kmember... ITs a good strong mild steel design, prob overkill persay. If I didn't get such a good deal on the racecraft I would have went with the UMI since I dont care about weight loss for a street car. I contacted racecraft and they assured me that the moly kmember was more than adequate for street use and alot of people run them on the street with no issues. I personally have prob put 170 miles on mine on not so great streets with no issues. Ive seen where the UMI kmember cross tubes can get awfully close to the Fbody LS oil pans. So pan removal in the car would be impossible. Racecraft Aarms are drag only and have no spring perches, modified ball joints and require limiters on suspension travel.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Whoops i need to edit my post. I have pa racing not racecraft

I got confused. But they are both similar and thin from what i have seen

Running a dart big block twin big frame turbo setup is gonna really stress this stuff up front. I had a heavy front last time with the small block small turbo setup, so its only gonna get worse. Trying to cut mass where i can but its not easy while trying to remain streetable

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I had a pa racing one back in like. 2003 maybe? 2004. Somewhere, but anyway. It broke on the street.

For a track car it's fine though. Just a lame design.

My spohn looks exactly like the one racecraft one pasted above. I don't know if the angles on the hoop are different or something but my tie rods rub. In fact, I can't even turn the wheel with the car on the lift because the tie rod is firmly against it when the suspension is unloaded.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I figure the track would be more load on the kmember as far as lifting and twisting forces on launch, but i can see rough roads doing similar things

I think doing a 12-14 pt cage where you run bars to the engine bay frame will help in stiffness. I may do that

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I dunno. On ramps, off ramps, uneven roads, bumps.

Mine broke twice, once from bottoming out as the hoop was so low it ripped the rack off.

Then the second time it bottomed out it cracked where the motor mount plate welds to the hoop. I fixed it, and sold it for like $100.

My spohn seems stronger in design, but the hoop is in the way of the steering linkage. Just can't win.

These kinda suck to install with the motor in. It took me like 4 hours. If I were to do it again, i'd go coil over though. A lot of that time was spent compressing and uncompressing springs. One of the compressors stripped out and I almost lost a hand..

OK I'm done complaining now.

-- Joe

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

With my racecraft the only thing I couldn't do was install the Tie rods into the center link with the wheels straight. I had to turn the wheels till I was able to move the mounting hole out far enough so I could get it in the centerlink. Once in the center link there is plenty of room between the back of the tierod and the Kmember through the full range of movement/turning. This is with stock moog problem solver inner/outer tierods and UMI solid adjusting sleeve. So their has to be some change between the designs that allows more clearance with the racecraft.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Here is a pic of the UMI vs OEM Kmember thickness. AS you can see you dont save alot compared to the single tube designs.

I would think a mean pothole at speed on a turn would cause more force than a launch landing at the strip due to the forces coming at different directions. But their are sacrifices for everything. All that added clearance/space comes at a cost!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thats crazy that you bottomed out twice! I wouldn't expect and aftermarket design to hold up well to something like that.

Thats how I did mine, had the car on stands, supported the engine with the harbor freight support bar and swapped Kmembers. Wasn't too bad, but doing it by myself made it interesting. I would say It took me like 1 hr once I got the old one out.

Gotta be careful with the spring compressors. I havent used one in years on my car. I only use springs that I can install by hand so lowering springs/cut etc. I wiggle them in and compress with a jack.

Any spohn stuff I purchased I have either sold or returned without running or installing. INcluding the coil over kit which fit but hated the fact that where was no adjustability for alignment. Sold them after just mocking them up. I do run a pair of his coil over support plates that I welded tabs on for a STB mount.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The design is the same, but the Spohn is dimensionally different. I will take some pictures tonight.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That is when I lived in Massachusetts. The rack got ripped off by a slightly-raised manhole cover on the main road heading to my shop. (I used to own an automotive business). The second time was just hitting a bump off throttle.

Guys own Ferrari's and lambo's around here, so it's not like 4x4's are required but. we do have bumps and potholes occaisionally.

Yeah I think I did mine right after you. I used to use this big square holder for doing transmissions in FWD cars but I bought the harbor freight one after seeing yours and it worked out well. I have brand new moog springs and they have a huge spring rate. I should have went coil over. I had them out once doing the a-arms, and then like an idiot I did the k-member about 6 months later. Next time they come out they are going in the trash for coil overs.

-- Joe

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

My wife is from MA... not my favorite state lol. Roads are def shitty. I wonder how much ground clearance you had with the Kmember for it to catch. NJ roads are pretty bad too. I have to dodge them constantly.

Moog springs are also tall! For the price you can't beat them. I used to run moog 5664s (strongest OEM spring) and cut like 1 coil or so to lower the car. They would slip in with no compressor in my UMI Aarms. Well not "slip" in but i could get them without a compressor. You might want to hold on to them! you might not like the coil covers. Make sure you reinforce the strut towers with the coils overs.

RS Chris

He's been 4.20s on all three systems.

86CamaroDan

Being from eastern Ma (just bellow boston) I cringe when ever a road is torn up and has raised manhole covers (Not that the usual roads are much better). Its the worst feeling knowing i might rip off the ypipe, smash the tranny, or rip a hole in the oil pan. The roads here suck. Im ready to move to NC after what healy did a couple weeks back.

ZZ3Astro

Wow.. more than two weeks and I haven't gotten anything done. I blame it on this 118 lb blonde girl personally, but some say the hot weather is a factor too. When things 'cool down' a bit I'll be back on this project though.

ZZ3Astro

Latest update... STILL waiting on Edelbrock to ship out Vortec Pro-Flo intakes. Projected to happen the end of this month now. Meanwhile I've done some investigating and figured out that my torque arm is a BMR Trak Pak. It's the one that uses the weld-in cross brace that is notorious for grabbing railroad tracks on lowered cars. I'm thinking about using the lowering springs that came with these parts so it will likely sit one inch lower than stock. Also the cross brace is missing and has to welded to subframe connectors. Since mine are Spohn tubular, it will be a chore to weld on the tabs in a specific position like I'd be able to do on rectangular tube connectors. Also I have the Spohn driveshaft loop/torque arm extended mount transmission crossmember already. As such, I think I'm going to end up ordering a Spohn Pro-Series adjustable torque arm which will bolt right up to my existing hardware and not require any additional welding. Also I can use my stock torque arm for now for street tuning and when I get ready to hit the track I will order the Spohn.


So for now not a lot of progress but getting closer..

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

Hey Steve, I enjoyed talking with you at US19 Drag way two weeks ago. It's cool to talk to members from this board in person and share ideas beside via the interweb.

ZZ3Astro

Love your car zz1.. that thing flies too! And you got to be the first Thirdgen member to see what (who) has been distracting me for the past couple of months. Finally the weather has broke and the evenings are less muggy. I have the K-Member almost ready to drop off the car. Might even do that this evening. Can't wait to bring it up to US19 this fall.

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

There more important things in life and my family is one of them too. My car is and always will be just a hobby nothing more. Just try to enjoy it as much as you can before you loose interest; of course when your not distracted drooling over your lady friend!

Send me a PM whenever you go to US19 and I'll try to link up with you.

ZZ3Astro

Wow! Progress.. K-Member is out, frame has been notched to allow easier placement of a 4 inch downpipe. I have a trip coming up that is going to dent progress this month but maybe I'll have the engine back in by Oct 1. Then tons of work left still.