Raunchtastic

I would be very surprised if that turbo managed 700rwhp. I feel like it would run out of breath way too quickly. I have seem people hitting 550-600whp, but that's about it. I think it is "rated" for 700 like mine is "rated" for somewhere around 1000. I don't expect it would make that much on a real world application though.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i thought so too, figured 600-650rwhp but on3 rated the same turbo at 750rwhp+

http://www.on3performance.com/shop/on-3-performance-76mm-t-4-turbocharger/

I know denmah trapped 136mph and on the 76/65 he loves that turbo bc it spooled instantly. She's going to a 76/78 or 78/75 would net more power but spool and street driving would suffer a bit.

Raunchtastic

I have no doubt that it will spool slower, but I also don't want to be cruising down the highway at ~2000-2500rpm and have the turbo on the verge of boost and blowing hot air on the top end. Since the 4.8 with have at least enough torque to comfortably cruise, I'd rather go too big on the turbo than too small.
I would guess ON3 is a bot optimistic on their numbers as well. A lot of this is new to me, though, as I've only ever dealt with upgrading factory turbo cars, not adding to an N/A build. My overall goal is at least 550rwhp and hit 10.99 or faster. I'm hoping I won't have problems with that. The LT1 I pulled from the car made comparable power to the 4.8, so chances are I won't be any slower! :P

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

gotcha. Cruising and load are 2 different things. You need to load the engine to build boost, cruising at 2500 is light throttle and low load so you won't build boost even if your building full boost at 2500 normal but that's under high load.

I understand about turbo sizing bigger than smaller the thing is the 76/65 and the 76/75 or 76/83 all swap in the same overall size so if you don't like one you can literally just swap it out and call it a day lol. The 76/65 is going to spool super fun and be out of steam by 6k which is my max rpm anyways. The 76/75 will spool alittle slower but will carry you higher in the rpm band. I personally only drive my car on the street and I drive it hard but I'm 90% of the time under 4500-5k and only blasting to 6k when getting on the highway. So I chose my turbo based on that.

Raunchtastic

That makes sense. I plan on going to a 6.0 or 6.2 eventually, so I chose my turbo based on that. Either way, I'm just hoping to get this mess together soon to see what all I need to chop up and redo, haha

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

It will interesting to see if that size turbine and compressor causes surge at slightly loaded cruise on a 4.8.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

Glad I saw this post before sending my parts to get ceramic coated. I think I have the old design as I bought my kit back in February. I'm going to call CXRacing tomorrow to see if I can get the right parts.

Z28FAST1

Real world application making 670rwhp through an auto. I'm sure it can make 700 rwhp through a manual if the chassis is up for it:


I'm making close to 600 rwhp at 8 lbs of boost w/an LS1. The turbo does not "come-on" under light throttle. It feels n/a while short shifting and driving around town. It isn't until part throttle that it lights instantly and can blow the drag radials off at highway speeds

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

well I have some shitty news. Been going back and forth with CX racing and they shipped out the replacement crossover and pass side header. It apparently was "label created" and I guess fedex sat on it until tonight which it finally showed up as in transit. It originally had a arrival date of sat and now it's saying next wed... man I hate FedEx!

so the real bad news is they decided to send me pics of the updated crossover and mockup on there test motor. The pics are the exact same pipe that I had. Ugh... why wouldnt they just see that and tell me not to send it back... I sent them the pics 2 days before it even shipped! They said it clears on there mock up motor but these guys couldn't tell there @ss from a hole in the wall bc there test motor had LS1 fbody accessories, a truck waterpump, and LS1 fbody crank and a fbody tensioner. In case no one knows that's a mix match of parts and nothing will line up lol. The truck waterpump is 3/4" farther out than the fbody, so they designed a kit around a setup that doesn't technically exist. The it will fit fbody/corvette and CTSV but not a truck setup only because of the tensioner. The fbody tensioner sits back 3/4"-7/8" compared to the truck so that's why I'm having the issues. If they just put a truck tensioner on and built it around that there would be no issues and ANY LS motor would fit.

Also I asked them about the crossover and why they have 2.5" on the site but in reality it's 3". That's a huge difference in exhaust flow and probably also spool time... not to mention space savings they could have had. 3" is going to be stupid tight. They said it must be a typo on the site and the 3" didn't seem to affect spool on some custom kits they built. I would have been happy with 2.5" or even 2.25".

Cx confirmed the 76/65 should max out around 700whp but all depends on the exhaust flow and engine. A v8 will choke out sooner than a 4 or 6. If mine revs to 6k I'm good. Cam was designed for 5500k max and will rev to 6k. If it chokes up I'll swap to a larger AR or go to a 78/75 or something close. I just want this thing to be fun between 2500-5k where I spend most of my time. Cyber's 5.7 is not stock so he was already putting out 400hp so it's easy for him to make 600whp at low boost. I plan on pushing this turbo to its max and if I need more (doubt it) will swap it out.

My swap is under way! Yanked the supercharger and stuff today. Swapped back to stock accessories. Going to remove the headers tmrw if I have time and then I'm waiting on the crossover parts. Header wrap and turbo blanket showed up and turbo housing studs. Need to figure out how to run the wastegate dump back into the exhaust. Thinking of hacking up the last part of the kit for routing the exhaust by the tranny and installing a 3" cutout.

Cyber how loud loud is the wastegate dump when it opens?

battmann

iTrader: (9)

i called CXRacing yesterday and sent them pics of my mock-up. they verified that my system was the old design so i have to send my parts back as well. i was planning to use F-body water pump and accessories so it sounds like the pipes would fit, but i don't want to take a chance. it would be my luck to get this stuff ceramic coated and then not fit.

Customblackbird - are you going to be running a MAF sensor on your car? it looks like the intake tube will have to be cut to fit that in. i guess we can do a speed density tune and not use a MAF. still on the fence for which way to go.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

you should be fine with the fbody accessories. Only thing given me trouble is the dang tensioner. I'm just going to ding the crossover when it comes. Maybe 1/4" or so should give me the clearance I need.

No MAF for me, on a boosted car the MAF is not ideal. I was running a HP tuners custom 2 bar OS and it worked good ok the supercharger motor. I'm going to try out the new FItech ultimate LS pcm and harness on this combo. Self learning and boost ready to 30psi. It's a cleaner setup and hopefully the self tuning will take care of everything even in boost. Both systems are speed density and rely on the map sensor.

Raunchtastic

For anyone running this kit, will you be using their wastegate? I was hoping to use it, but I really wanted to start with 6-8psi and go up from there, rather than starting at 12psi. I haven't seen any place that sells either different spring rates or replacement springs that I could modify the stock spring. Do we know if these are a copy of a tial WG or something that I could buy parts and use? This is one of the big things holding me back. That and my pilot bearing exploded...

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I will be, keeping the 12psi spring but it comes with a different spring not sure if its more or less spring pressure. But there is a company called wynotom that sells the cheapest 60mm wastegate (great quality) that should drop right in place and it comes with a 7psi wastegate spring. $65 for the gate is a great price and just run this wastegate till your ready for more PSI and just swap out the whole unit. From the looks of it, it uses the same flange on the header side. http://www.ebay.com/itm/60MM-7-PSI-W...tZDxnp&vxp=mtr

Or take the spare spring out of the box the CX one comes with and get some DIA measurements and see what the Tials are. They normally all use the same design but I have 6 and 8psi ebay springs for WG and they are much larger and taller than the one in the CX kit.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

7875 is perfect lol will come in smoother and later than the 65 turbine models

I had a 7065 T70, on my stock 305 and it was rear mounted. Spooled good! On a 4.8-5.3 front mount, it will light quick

Raunchtastic

I had seen these, but really wanted to use the CXracing wastegate so I knew it would bolt to the screamer pipe they include in the hot side kit. I may just tough it up and start at 12psi and hope nothing pops. Oh well!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I dont think the other WG will be an issue. They are the same flange. The CX kit uses a 44mm flange on the screamer pipe. I measured mine last night as I'm going to be fabbing my own to recirculate back into the dump pipe. They even look the same housing wise as the CX.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Got my crossover and header today. Mocked it all up and looks like I’m in the same boat. I mocked up everything in the car tho and it does fit. However the flex coupler is resting on the fan plastic shroud and the crossover contacts the serpentine belt still. So I figured if I cut out 3/4” of the crossover on the driver side to bring it 3/4” closer to the Engine it will clear the shroud, then I’ll add 3/4” to the pass side and push it out away from the tensioner and solve both problems with 3 cuts. Should be fun lol.

Also im wanting to recirculate the wastegate back into the dump pipe for stealth. It will only require a short 90+* bend and should be good.

Raunchtastic

I was honking it would recirculate eventually, so I'm curious to see how you end up doing that. I haven't been able to get my engine/trans in the car yet, so I haven't even began to mock up what I would do. Interested to see pictures when you get it done.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

Are you still using a truck water pump? Sounds like an f-body pump might give you that 3/4" clearance you need. I got my return slip to send my crossover & PS header back but now I'm hesitant since you still have issues with their "fixed" pieces. Ugh. This process sucks.

Z28FAST1

Wastegate is an HKS clone with a specific flange which will not work(seal) with other wastegates.

I believe the kit comes with springs, you can even use the lighter Bov springs to bench test boost.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

truck water pump was on mockup motor, motor in the car is a fbody car LS1 waterpump with 3/4” spacers so it lines up with the crank and truck accessories. The tensioners are in the same exact spot with both the car and truck water pumps as you need to push the water pump out 3/4” and the tensioner needs to come in 3/4” compared to the truck tensioner. Basically if your running a truck crank you need to use an LS1 fbody pump and 3/4 spacers and an LS1 fbody tensioner. If you run the truck waterpump u need the truck tensioner. Both are in the same spot as it all has to align with the crank. If I was running an fbody crank pulley then I would be running fbody accessories and thus a fbody pump (no spacers) and fbody tensioner... since the crank is fbody the whole serpentine system is 3/4” closer to the block so the CX kit will fit with no mods. If you run the truck spacing your going to have to mod the crossover or come up with some custom tensioner on the driver side as the belt will hit the crossover anywhere u put the tensioner on the pass side.

I could easily heat and dent the crossover and get the clearance but that’s prob at least 3/8” deep and the wrap thickness decrease that even more. I’d rather mod the pipe and fix both issues (tensioner and rad shroud) and keep everything else simple and clean. It sucks but it’s not designed for the truck setup. Looking at the pipe they just needed to keep the pipe straight across from the driver side to the pass and it would clear no problem. But instead they do this stupid mix of bends and push it all closer to the tensioner.

Inward bend from waterpump to tensioner that ruins clearance, no idea why they put u there.

Stupid inward bend that ruins everything
Belt interference
Flex coupler just barely rests on the shroud

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i believe the wyntom is also and HKS clone, 60mm opening and 44mm dump. The flange looks to be the same exact as the CX. I’m honestly thinking of buying one for $65 and testing it out. I was going to but then realized CX Gave extra flanges with the WG in the kit so I have spares.

89FormulaLS

Ordered this kit a few days ago,

5.3L PAC springs and Jegs turbo cam (sloppy build!)
TH400
PTC converter
2x walbro 450
210 injectors
UMI frame mount torque arm TH400 mount
solid engine mounts from hawks
Holley terminator
-10 feed, -6 return
Custom driveshaft

Ill max this turbo out and see what I can get. Hopefully my stock rear end doesnt take a **** on the dyno!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Why dual walbro 450s? One will support 800-1000hp on pump gas. The -10 feed is wayyy overkill. -6an line with support 1200hp, -8 is all that is needed if that. Remember the 450 pump has a 5/16” outlet so even if you needed two your feed line shouldn’t be bigger than -8.

At 350rwhp your rear is a goner most likely. Speaking that a 76/65 can support 600-700rwhp max your going to pop that easily.

89FormulaLS

Dude, E85. We will find out where the rear end blows on the dyno. I don't care what you say it will hold, I'm gonna find out!
Turbo LS rules:
rule #1. Never tell someone they are gonna blow unless you have a video of you blowing at said blowing point.
Rule #2. never tell someone they are overdoing thier fuel system.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

dude your talking about a 7.5” rear, even if you got the 9 bolt it ain’t gona hold. These rears blow up behind stock motors let alone 3x the power. A beefed 10bolt will handle 450 ish hp but who knows how long.

It’s clear your probably young and naive but what’s the point of building the sloppy power of u have no way of keeping it reliably on the ground? It’s like building 2000hp 7s car but keeping the drum brakes... just @ss backwards. Do yourself a favor and the others around u and build a better rear.

U also never implied E85, I assumed it as a possibility.

89FormulaLS

Ok I'll order a 9 bolt kit then.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

There are no “kits”. It’s the Aussie 9 bolt. Only stock replacement parts and good luck finding them and if u do prices will be mucho $

89FormulaLS

Ok, idk what moser is.

ZZ3Astro

Seems like all of the clearance issues with the crossover would be non-existent had they used 2.5". Glad to see you are moving along on this build. That kit may be on the next version of my Iroc if all goes well for yours.

86White_T/A305

Still on my stock diff here..but keep in mind im for lack of better words...***** footing it from a dig.I dont try to plant 700whp through it from a dead stop.I roll into my power band.The diff will hold on the dyno..but sticky tire and a trip to the drag strip..if you dead hook..it will be a very short distance.

89FormulaLS

That's exactly what I figured, CX racing had some of the piping and turbo on backorder. They thought it wouldn't ship out until the end of next week

TurboedTPI

My stock 10bolt has been under my car for over 10 years running mid 10's, 1.5 60fts. It has 185,000 miles on it too. hahaha! I'm waiting for it to grenade, but it just keep going, so im gonna keep sending it!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Modified my crossover and it clears the fan and tensioner now. But in the process of modifying I put alittle more bend on the driver side 90 and it warped the v band flange ugh. Has like 1/16” gap on like 1/4 of it. I tried to straight it out but it’s either going to require a new flange welded on or I’m going to come up with a gasket solution. I’m leaning towards the gasket for a leak free seal which a vband doesn’t usually give a complete leak free seal. I think some remflex collector gaskets and a razor will work nicely.

Started the DP to exhaust and man that sucks. The CX would fit in the stock location and make life easy but of course I run dual SFC and one is through floor so I can’t modify them for clearance. So I hacked up there’s and started making it fit the by the tranny. The bend requires is extreme so I had to get creative with filler metal. Should work fine tho. Just need to figure out how to get it to align with the catback and the 3” electric cutout.

Also CX thought it was a good idea to weld the 02 bung on the DP at the 6 o’clock position... that will kill a sensor in no time. So I need to weld 2 more 02 bungs for EFI and WB02. Recirculating of WG still deciding how I want to do it. It’s just a short 90* but it requires a complex tight cut and weld. Then aligning of everything to fit and seal. No room to add a muffler on the WG dump pipe so it’s either Dump it to atmosphere or run it into the DP.


Like 1/4” or so of clearance now.

Hard to see but u can see the gap between the flex coupler and fan here but it’s only like 1/4” but at least it’s not resting on the fan and fan power wire.

89FormulaLS

Ive been looking at moving my coils to the side of the. Block, is there room?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I don’t think so. On the driver side yes but on the pass side the starter is in the way and in front there isn’t really enough room but you also have all the exhaust running so heat would be crazy.

I think the best spot is the back of the Engine on the firewall. Run the wires right down behind the heads and across to the plug wires and be done. I’m going to be leaving mine on the valve covers as I think i found a way to keep them there and just run a cross peice of wire to keep it close to the head. I’m running taylor 9mm wires I thinks and the boots clear the headers it’s just the left over wire bulges out and hits the headers. I’m going to keep it simple and hope for the best. I will be putting on cheap spark plug wire boots I got off amazing for $15. They worked great on my supercharger headers and all you have to do is cut the metal wire and expand them a bit to clear the boots.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Basically finished the exhaust today. It’s run and connected to the stock exhaust, clearance is good as I run it next to the trans. Cutout is mocked up and I tested it. Pretty good deal for $68 on eBay and the cutout is smooth.

Just need to weld in the 02 bungs and I need a butt joint clamp for the exhaust.

Still on the fence if Ce if I want to run the WG to atmosphere or plumb back. The issue is the dump pipe can move and rotate quite a bit. I’m worried if I try to weld it it won’t be perfect and then im screwed. As I would have to cut and knotch the connecting peice with everything mocked up and mounted like it would “whole exhaust and turbo”. Then mark the pipe and drill and cut it out. Then install it back and figure out how to get some tack welds on. Then remove and check fitnment. It’s a lot of work. Think I would rather figure out how to run a long extension and a muffler with an exit all the way to the driver side behind the radiator. Should work well but need to mock it all up and see where the WG DP exits out, it’s between the lower rad hose and the idler arm.

ZZ3Astro

I got my v-band gaskets from exotics speed. They are about $5 each and seem to work well.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Made those the eBay SS mls style? I see them for about $6 on eBay. But I was thinking the graphite remflex would crush and fill warped flanges better. I worry about the clamp not behind able to slip over the flanges with a thick gasket tho.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

looks like you got your parts to fit pretty good.
i did some mock-up this weekend using 4th gen accessories to see if i really want to send my crossover back to CX or not. i don't have the crank pulley install tool, but it looks like the belt will be pretty close to the tensioner on the water pump. the crossover pipe is close to the 4th gen dual fans i plan to use but looks like it should work. another issue i ran into is there is a large vent on the plastic rear cover for the alternator. it hits the bracket that connects the k-member to the frame. i really don't want to remove that bracket so i'm hoping i can either modify that plastic vent or maybe get a different alternator.
i also got some rubber edging off eBay for the intercooler piping holes i made in the battery trays. i think it turned out great. won't have to worry about exposed edges here now.
here's some pictures:

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Looks great Batman! What rubber stripping is that? I keep using rubber/silicone hose I cut for it to slip over the edge but something like yours looks better. No idea about the 4th gen accessories but mine would have cleared no problem as the pump would have been moved back 3/4” where my belt was resting on the crossover. 3/4” is a lot... so I would have guessed 5/8” space between the belt and the crossover with fbody accessories. The issue with the 4th gen fans are the motor depths... they stick out like a moths! You got a ton more clearance than me... seems like my motor is prob pushed forward at least an inch. But I’m also running a thicker rad and my fan motors are shallower but the fan sticks off more than the 4th gens.

I think you should just get an aluminum shroud off eBay and throw two 11-12” spal or derale fans and get a lot of clearance back.

Side note today I basically finished the entire exhaust. Everything is run back to the catback all by the tranny and the 3” cutout is mocked up. Wish I could have run the exhaust the way CX made it but my 2 sets of SFC block the stock exhaust routing. Thankfully i just cut up the CX piping and made due. I just need a clamp and a hanger and it’s good to go. I also need to yank the DP and figure out 02 sensors. CX put the first one at 6 o’clock right off the turbo... what good is that going to do.... stupids. Moisture will take out a WB02 in no time. I’m going to add 2 bungs into the DP prob all the way at the back before the vband. I want them there so they don’t interfere with any leaks from the v bands except for the one on the turbo. Should minimize false readings. There is one right off the DP but it’s close to the tranny bellhousing so I prob won’t use it.

Other than those few things with the crossover done I can wrap it all up and install. I just mocked up the WG dump and think I’m going to run it to atmosphere. Don’t think I want to tackle the recirculating at the moment. It’s going to be a tight lil bastard to fab and tack. Going to see if I can run a small muffler on it to help with noise.

edit: just realized your tensioner is unloaded in the pics... duh bc u have no balancer lol. But it should swivel forward a good bit when you go to install the belt. So it might give you more clearance.

Raunchtastic

Where are you guys routing the oil feed line? And roughly how long of a line do you have?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

CX kit comes with a 6ft braided oil pressure line. It easily reaches from the top of the oil filter (oil pressure block off plate) to the turbo (i routed mine against the firewall). But CX provides the oil filter sandwich which screws on between the pan and oil filter and gives you a few 1/8" NPT ports to choose from. I had already drilled and tapped my block off plate before as well as the oil pan bc I was originally going turbo. But its easy to do and you don't need to drop the pan to do it. Of course the oil sandwich is still easier.

The drain is a -10an they supply with the kit as well last he -10an braided line and fittings. I won't be using that tho and will more than likely run some push lock hose and good AN fittings. With that being said the stuff they supplied isn't bad, I just want black lol.

Raunchtastic

I drilled by oil pan and had a buddy weld in a -10 drain port, I have just been having the hardest time finding a feed line that would be long enough. Everyone has a 2-3ft line, and I saw a 5ft line once. Is the 6ft line right on the money, or is there a fair amount of extra line?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I'd say its pretty good. I was just pulling on it tonight actually to make sure it reached. If you go to my post #84 and go to the 3rd pic down, You can see the turbo on the left hand side and in the background is a red battery junction box. Laying around (behind) it is the oil pressure line (-4 I think) and thats where it was resting. I have to go look at it and do a final routing but it runs up, around the back, follows the firewall to the pass side and around the strut tower to the turbo. 5ft wouldn't make it.

But you could get away with 3-4ft if you ran it from the back of the intake (rear china wall oil pressure port). That is easier honestly, just need a brass tee. I would have done that but the line was too long and I'm running a tee already with both ports full.

89FormulaLS

Is there enough room to close a stock good with the truck intake?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

In my application yes, just barely. I have to run a small case alternator otherwise the large case hits the underwood bracing (can be trimmed). The intake bolt right at the front top (behind the TB literally almost touches the hood) I can't even have a bolt in the the intake otherwise the hood touches and will still close but it lifts he rear of the hood alittle. I took some pics of clearance through the power bulge hood scoop which I will post in alittle.

But I run solid universal SBC engine mounts, eBay LS motor mount adapters and a moly K member.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Hey guys, got the turbo mostly done! Just wanted to give u guys a heads up... that turbo drain is going to be a huge PITA!!! My Summit -10 high flow fittings wouldn’t fit, I had bought some cheap ebay high flow and they were like 1/16” shorter and they just BARELY cleared the subframe/ battery tray. Then running the line down is very tight with all the tuning there (down pipe, WG dump etc). I put some 1400*F sleeving over the hose to keep the heat off.

I also added an aligner inside the pass header to the turbo 90* adapter. CX doesn’t use aligning vbands or poke the tubing out to help with aligning and leaks. Adding a small section of tubing aligns the pipes and helps with leaks. I’ve added one everywhere but on the turbo exit to DP vband as the turbo exit opening is smaller than 3” tubing so there’s no way to do it. Other than that I’ve added small prices on every other vband connection. Assembly is much easier and u get perfect alignment every time. It also helps a lot with the vband shifting and being off center. My turbo would move alittle after being tightened down and this helped a lot. I also made a quick turbo support that bolts to 2 compressor housing bolts and down to the battery tray hold down bolt. Thing is rock solid now.


Here is my relocated 02 bungs, middle left and top right. The bungs that CX welds in are useless!

My added bung puts the first 02 behind the tensioner

89FormulaLS

Why not drill a hole and run oil drain down past the battery tray and over to front cover/oil pan? My kit is finally getting delivered tomorrow 😵. Been busy getting everything else in order for my install....

so far,

MS3 Pro Ultimate
Quick Performance 9", Yukon center 35 spline
1200hp built TH400 FM RVB with trans specialties brake
stock 5.3 with hone and gaps opened up
Jegs turbo cam and PAC 1218 springs
Dual in tank walbro 450s, -10 feed -6 return (e85)

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Not following. U can’t drill a hole... the battery tray is not directly below it, plus the drain flange is angled which pushes the fitting over the frame. You can’t push it down through the tray and then drill through the frame? You want the drain hose to be angled down throughout the run. There is no other way to run it and mine drains down to the oil pan.