Any interest?
Alot of us have to go through it and search for anything related to it.

 

Use the exhaust forum.

 

oh, ok

 

I vote for a separate forum. Not that I have a vote or that this is a democratic process.

Emissions is a big problem and a lot of people have issues with it - almost everyone here at 3rd Gen due to the years of the cars being in the range of those that have to pass emissions. Most of the other forums here don't concern everyone. Just look at the list available and ask the question on each, "How much is this used compared to..."

Exhaust is important enough to stand on its own without emissions.

I'd like to see more discussions on what you can do to raise HP and keep the emissions good enough to pass. Let's get creative.

 

 

I've posted my combo several times on what setups we use here in SoCal to get 12 second ET's, 25+ miles per gallon, and pass CA's tough emissions tests. Check the TPI forum or the Tech/General forum.

I see more people wanting to "rip that smog crap off of there" then I do wanting keep it and build horsepower around it, unfortunately. Those people are making it tougher for us and cutting their own throat.

 

I apreciate the info, I'll do a search to see if I can find it. But you made my point for me somewhat. I don't know where to search or even a good search query to find it. Without your post. No one else would either.

And maybe, if more people had good access to this info, they wouldn't be so quick to rip it out. It is more trouble than it's worth to rip it out in the long run. But hey, if they can't find it and they want HP.

I'm going down this road because I have been here before looking for emissions info. I did find some that helped me get inspected, but it had nothing to do with performance, just tips and tricks that were mostly sounding like smoke and mirrors. It did work.

What I would like to see is some real experimenting out there. Novel ideas. Start running tubes here and there, rewire something, inject something. Hell, bottle up someones good exhaust and pass it thru the tailpipe (Kinda like using someone elses urine).

 

The problem with experimenting and running tubes here and there, as you call it, is that changing, tampering, or disabling the stock emissions equipment is illegal in the eyes of the federal law. You can only replace stock parts with aftermarkets parts that are certified as 50-state legal (or 49-state legal if you dont live in CA or states that use CA's emissions standards.) on a street vehicle.
I'm afraid an emissions forum would either turn into illegal ways to disable or remove the stock emissions devices, or ways to pass the emissions test. Those ways to pass can be summed up in one post: An overall tune-up, filter replacement, and a new catalytic converter (or two if so equipped). If those dont pass the test, then you have something seriously wrong with the engine and you need to do more troubleshooting.

 

Kevin, those are great points I did not consider.

 

Let's keep a couple of things in mind - no where did I advocate doing anything illegal. Bottling up someones exhaust was clearly a joke. And the experimentation I'm talking about would supply data. And I'm not looking to pick a fight with you - although I do disagree with you. Emissions is mainly smoke and mirrors that no one seems to want to give up any hard data on.

As I understand it here in Texas 82 to 95 have to pass emissions. I could be wrong - just moved here 4 mths ago. (Came from LA where there was no emissions testing.) They shove something up your tailpipe and check the gases. I don't think they care if you have smog equip or not. They don't plug into the computer to see if anything is working. Now, 96 up do not have to pass emissions, they just have to have the computer to say everything is working correctly.

What if you do get all carb friendly parts but something is just not right? Need some info?
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By your reasoning in the above post, "An overall tune-up, filter replacement, and a new catalytic converter (or two if so equipped). If those dont pass the test, then you have something seriously wrong with the engine and you need to do more troubleshooting."

OK, how about some info on what to troubleshoot? I've done a tune-up and a new cat. It still doesn't work. How about some info?

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Or, is what you are saying, and correct me if I'm wrong - Once you have put a part in your engine that is not CARB compliant, don't ask how to make it smog friendly, you shouldn't have it on the road because it is illegal already? Off-road only now?
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Most of the rifles I own would get me time in the CA state pen if I was to transport them into Kalifornia. Just because there is a detachable magazine. But they are legal here.

BTW, to clear up something. My 91 Firebird has a completely stock 305 in it (currently). It has a legal sticker on it. I tuned it up, changed the cat, and it passed 3 mths ago after I moved to TX. That is the extent of the info I could find and it wasn't that easy. I don't need info on how to pass the test - legally or illegally.

Not looking for a fight and I won't post here on this topic again. You have a forum on Audio for Christ's sake!!!

 

Either the exhaust forum or the tech/general forum would the right place to ask those questions, in my opinion.

 

I think he has a point on where to find good info on that. I personally don't have to deal with it but in the future it would be a good idea to possibly have it's own topic. I live in a non smog state and my car reflects that. As far as slitting my own throat I wouldn't go that far. But I think if a car can pass the tree hugger test without it then there shouldn't be a problem. Not saying mine would pass as it sits but after the e85 conversion it wouldn't surprise me.
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Ps if you don't like the smog crap then move to a non smog state and run free.

 

I agree, it should only matter what comes out the tailpipe, not what's under the hood. But there's no money to be made doing it that way. The state of CA collects lots of dollars from companies paying to have their parts certified 50-state legal.

Even if you live in a non-smogcheck state, you still need to have your emissions parts hooked up. Its a FEDERAL law for street vehicles.

 

It is a federal law but the fbi isn't pulling me over and checking it and neither is the police. I have a custom dual exhaust and they don't even ask about it. And the number of trucks in my area with duals and no cats is astronomical, and some don't even run mufflers and they still don't bother them. Not trying to be a pain but it's just the way things go around here, and I like it that way. I don't like spending 150-300 dollars per cat when it doesn't help me go faster or run better or improve fuel economy.

 

And there is no hard proof that they help the environment that is why a lot of people pull them in the first place. My Dad lives in a smog state and had a 92 full size chevy pickup with the tbi 4.3 and a 5 speed. The cat got plugged so he poked a hole in it and drained it and welded the hole shut and it still passed the sniffer.

 

I bet he would have passed a lot cleaner with a cat there. It HAS been proven that cats are effective in reducing emissions. You just dont want to believe it.

 

There are plenty of Federal Laws that the each state decides to enforce or not enforce. CA is no exception,....... ( Pass that thing you Bogart !)

I live in a smog state and have had multiple cars pass the sniffer test over the years without a shred of emissions equipment on them. As long as the car is well maintained and has no internal problems it's not hard at all to get them to pass the sniffer test. As long as they pass the test and the C/E light is working right - most of these guys don't care. They are making so little on inspecting cars that they want to hand out stickers as fast as they can. They LOOSE $$ if they turn you away and you have to come back. If it passes the sniffer and the C/E light works correctly than they put a sticker in the window without ever opening the hood.

Something that needs to be considered here is that these cars are now considered "classic" cars as they are beginning to turn 25 Y/O. When that happens many states don't require the cars to even get tested for emissions any longer. With all these people out there not even giving the federal emissions laws a second though - how many do you think are going to leave all the emissions equipment alone once their own STATE says they don't need to worry about it ??

Just funneling all emissions problems into the Exhaust forum doesn't seem appropriate,...... and isn;t happening. The computer systems in our cars may be pretty simple - but they deal with more than just the exhaust stream. Right now there are posts in just about every forum related to the ECM / emissions system and creating a forum JUST for those issues appears to be a valid request. Kevin91Z As a moderator yourself you have refered us to 3 different forums to search for emissions info in this thread alone.

Part 1 can be summed up pretty fast,... take it off or plug it up. There's not much more to add really unless people wish to harass those of us that are using our free will live within the guidlines set by each of our states.

Part 2 is EXACTLY why there should be (IMO) an emissions forum. The people that would benefit the most from it are those people that wish to RETAIN or REPAIR thier cars emissions systems - not those of us that care less what the Feds think.

Since there only about 1 generations worth of Oil left in the earth - why not set up this forum so that this generation can benefit from the shared knowlege in an easy to use format rather than searching every forum on this site for Third Geb Camaro / Firebird emissions data ??

 

I only mentioned two forums: Exhaust and Tech/General.

What does the admin JT think? I havent seen his opinion.

 

What John in Ri said.
Thank you for letting people know why we ditch it, and why some people want to keep it. And for Kevin91Z the truck still passed it doesn't matter if it could do better as long as it passes the certain amount stated by the law.

 

And if the federal gov't feels the state isnt enforcing the laws it thinks it should, it will withhold funds. (see seat belt laws, drunk driving BAC limit, and formerly the 55 mph speed limit.)

But, federal law trumps state law. Federal law says you must have a catalytic converter and all your other stock smog devices hooked up and functioning. It doesnt matter if your state does smog tests or not. And the hippie tree-huggers would love more reasons to tighten up the emissions laws because they see us "evil polluting gas-guzzling monsters" on the road. Dont give them any more ammo.

 

Well this is one of those things that not everyone is going to agree on. So i'm done. But before I am I want to quote a famous book. "We are all sinners" even you.

 

There is no need for a board specific to this. It can be posted various places as stated.

 

Currently, I would have to agree that there doesn't appear to be a large need or demand for such a subforum.

But thanks for the debate and input.

 

How about a faq type thing for it so people can look up common problems and possible fixes for the emissions systems. A lot more people would be inclined to keep it on there cars if they knew how to fix it or what it does for the emissions illiterate. What do u think?

 

I searched all over these boards and I cant find it. But I know there was a smog faq or emissions faq thread on one of the boards, because I've posted in it. I cant remember what the thread was called so search isnt helping.

 

Well I guess that works. Maybe if you find it you could post it here for those that want the info can find it.