I am going out tomorrow to look at a 1987 Firebird as a possible project car. I will be swapping in 91/92 bumpers so I'm not too worried about this car not having a front bumper. This is my first project car and would be my second Firebird. Any advice on what to look for or stay away from when I look over the car tomorrow would be apreciated.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...055334005.html

 

I always look at a few key things when buying a Thirdgen..
1. What will it be worth when I'm done (Paint is expensive, motor work is expensive, will it make me money, or nickle and dime me to death).
2. Frame rot
3. If the car cannot be fixed, can I get my money back out from the parts (always need a backup plan)
4. Shock towers, If they've got holes, so does the rest of the car.

For $800 you could get a much nicer car BTW..

 

Thanks for the reply. Where/how do I look for frame rot?

 

check the wheel wells, all along the underside, under the doors, etc check the whole car

and i agree 800 is a bit much for that car, you can get a pretty nice project car for 1500 bucks, i wouldnt pay more than a couple hundred for that one

 

I just got the VIN number and it turns out it's not an 87 it's an 86. I thought that might be the case because from the pictures the center high brake light is outside the hatch glass and on an 87 I think they were incorporated into the spoiler. I'm going to see if I can decode the VIN and get more info.

1G2FX87S7GN202685

 

I usually make sure the title/vin is clean and in their name, check other sources for the vin too like in the right wheel well where the spare is, not just the usual places on the door, firewall. I agree with the other replies as well, frame rot sucks, check the floor pans good..maybe you can knock off the price a bit by pointing/finding out things that the car needs that the owner may be trying to hide/down-play. Make sure you also know of any issues the car may have i.e killswitches, the wiring is usually shot too but if you're swapping out it wouldn't matter anyway.

 

The cost of converting any V6 thirdgen to anything worth owning, is greater then the cost of just buying a V8 thirdgen to begin with. Same goes for paint and body work. It's cheaper to spend $5,000 on a really nice thirdgen, then to patch a clunker back together. Unless you're planning on changing everything anyway, you're further ahead to start with a nice car. The one in that craigslist ad looks like it's ready for the crusher.

 

Yeah, I will be passing on that car. I looked at it today and it was way to far gone for me to do anything with it. The search continues. My initial budget is low so I'm trying to find something decent for $1000 or less. We'll see maybe that is out of the realm of possibility.

 

Here is another option. No engine or trans but otherwise complete. The asking price is $1200 but I'm not sure if it is worth it. There is some rust on the drivers door sill, above the gas door and under the spoiler. Otherwise it looks clean. What are your thoughts. (pics to follow)

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ws...050002437.html

 

IMHO, worth about half that or less.

 

Don't start the whole v6 vs. v8 thing again, and if you figure its 'cheaper' to throw 5k you might wanna pull out your calculator and work a better figure. Any third gen is 'worth owning' albeit you have the funds (either all at once or in the days/months/years to come i.e job stability/career). Throwing 5k at ANY car doesn't guarantee you know the exact condition of its rotational assembly, it can provide a false sense of security to your ego but definitely not to a motor or trans that may be on the way out. He said he's on a budget, and moneys tight, well a v6 may provide a means for now and later on if he wants to swap it out as the proper funds become available it will be rewarding, after all if something breaks, cracks or blows and you built the drive train from intake to rear end you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

I stand by my opinion. Whether you like it or not, you get more car for your money when you buy a V8. This far down the line the price to get into a nice V6 isn't going to save much money over a decent V8.

After you put a decent V8 (not a junk 305) into a V6 car you're going to have spent enough to be in nice V8 thirdgen territory. You can spend $1,500 on a V6 Camaro, then another $1,500 on a V8 and related parts, and have a hacked together V8 Camaro with soft suspension, V6 gauges, base model interior and body. Or you can just spend $3,000 and get a Z28, Iroc, Formula, Trans Am, etc. Shop around and find a nice Z28, Iroc, Formula, or Trans Am, and you'll save more money in the long run. Spending a couple grand more in the beginning for a car with nice paint and no rust will save you a $3,000 paint job.

I'm sorry if you take it personally because you own a V6, but I'm not going to stop suggesting the easier, more cost effective route to people asking what they should be looking for. Being on a budget is all the more reason to save your money whenever you can, wait, and buy the right car when you can afford it, rather then buying the first POS you can afford and spending a fortune and years tacking it back together.

 

The rust would bug me. It means finding a donor without rust in those areas and cutting patch panels, then welding them in. After that the paint will probably need to be redone to cover the body work. Body work is expensive.

The missing drivetrain isn't all that big a deal if you're planning a LSx swap but if you're going to stick with a traditional V8 you'd probably be just as far ahead to find a complete car. Even a complete car with a junk transmission and blown up engine is a better deal then a shell if you don't already have all the parts you'll need. Piecing together the missing pieces of a puzzle almost always ends up costing more then a new puzzle. It'd be a better deal around $500, but I'd expect it to cost another $2,500 or so just to get it driving if you don't have a donor car, or a bunch of parts laying around that you can get for nothing.

My advice would be to relax. Minneapolis is a large city and there are sure to be a lot of thirdgens to choose from. Just keep setting aside money whenever you can, and hold out for the right car.

 

$1200 as a roller is insane!! Especially considering the rust. That car as is MIGHT be worth $400-$500 TOPS.

Are you willing to travel to pick the car up? There seem to be a lot of decent Firebirds popping up around East TN lately - Its a haul from MN, but if its a car you're gonna keep forever, it should be a nice car to begin with!

 

I'm willing to drive a couple of hours from the twin cities for the right car. If anyone knows or runs across one available online let me know

The search continues... I appreciate all the advice!

 

drew is right, there are v8 cars on craigslist ALL day long for 1500 and up. yes a lot of them are tbi's but ive seen tpi's for less 3000 a lot as well, get a v8 car if you want a v8 car

 

Minneapolis? Take it from a Canadian, 90% of northern cars that are 20 years old are rusted where you can't see it. And rust is incurable unless you strip it bare and start over from scratch. You better be working on a '69 Z28 or else you'll never recover your money.

Buy a southern car. It's easy to replace a heat-cracked dash pad.

 

I was gonna type something else but getting back on subject, good luck with finding your Camaro, if it's not your dream when you see it, use your imagination, you might find it sooner than later. Good luck!

 

i dont think he was calling an 11s 305 junk...but the majority of them are, much like the v6s(and i can say that as ive had them and still do) and most people that buy a v6 car to put a v8 in end up buying a a low level 305, spend the money on everything to make it work, you could just buy the 305tbi camaro in the first place and be way better off. if they buy a good v8 motor then they end up spending just as much as if they bought it already in the car if not more

with everything you have to change from the v6 car its not cost efficient to do when you can start with a v8 car for the same price

i couldve bought a 91 camaro 305 TPI for 1500 bucks, in great shape...you just have to look around a bit

 

This guy gets it...

Ok, here's an exercise to illustrate my point... Two similar Camaro's, one a V6, and one a V8... I'm going to condense the ads and only embed one pic each to try to keep the thread on track.

The V6... http://topeka.craigslist.org/ctd/2057246070.html

91 RS Camaro - $1695 (Topeka)
Date: 2010-11-12, 6:04PM CST
Reply to: XXXXXXXXX@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

91 RS Camaro, white, V6. $1695 obo Please call Stan

http://images.craigslist.org/3ma3of3...c94b871991.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3n83k33...ef7ed617bd.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3k43mc3...03276d1e2a.jpg

And the V8... http://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/2058900229.html

1992 Camaro 5.7 L Z-28 25th Aniversary - $4000 (West Wichita)
Date: 2010-11-13, 5:34PM CST
Reply to: XXXXXXXXX@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

Currently the car has around 155k miles on it. It is black on the outside and black and grey 2 tone cloth interior. The car is mostly stock aside from a few mods that were made before I got the car. It has dual in and dual out flomaster exaust. Hooker headders and all the smog equipment has been removed and the sensors either terminated or placed in the new system. Other than that the car is stock.


http://images.craigslist.org/3n73kb3...992d411fe9.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3n53p33...2e775d1202.jpg

Ok, now nevermind that the RS is trashed, and that the Z28 would probably fit in ok at a car show or cruise night... Ignore that nicer V8 thirdgens are available for less money regularly. Imagine they're in the same physical condition. You've got a $2,500 budget to make that RS look and perform like the Z28. Let's just consider a few of the things that are different... Spoiler, hood, wheels, suspension, engine, fuel injection intake, transmission, accessories, exhaust, instrument cluster. $2,500 isn't even going to buy those parts as used stock (worn out) parts. Rebuilding a V8 engine, and 700R4 transmission, is going to eat up most of the cost difference. Now even if you added all those parts to the RS, it'd still be a clone, worth less then the Z28.

 

3500 cash buys that z28 I bet

 

I'm heading out on a road trip on Sunday to go look at an 87 Formula with no rust not even in the floor pans. Has a V8 and Auto and only 91K miles. I think I may have found the project car.

 

i picked up a 87 v6 firebird for 300 with a good body and a 84 v8 for 450 so im just gunna swap everything from the v8 over to the v6

 

Except all the smog stuff has been removed which keeps it in a no-smog state and lessons the chance of a close to asking price buyer...

 

I'm surprised no one brought up the original car in the first post is actually an S/E, it really does not add anything to the value, but its an interesting piece at least. The Hood is unique, which if not in really good condition to perfect is an almost impossibility to replace with the Correct hood...

Honestly, You will be in for a TON of work trying to make that car look or be anything... Then you will still have an original V6 car. I would think the car is a good parts car from what I can tell. It at least needs a Hood and a RH fender.

like Drew said, do it right, find a better starting point.

 

Woohoo! I am now the proud owner of a 1988 Firebird Formula. 305 TBI, Auto, T-Tops, power windows and locks, etc. I didn't know until I started looking at RPO codes but it is also a WS6. I looked it over pretty well and can't find any rust to speak of.

 

That looks like a lot better deal then the others you've linked.

BTW the wheels are wrong. All Formulas came with 16" wheels.

 

Yep, I knew the wheels were wrong. The originals where in really bad shape so the previous owner replaced them with these. I plan on using AM rims anyway so wasn't worried about that.

 

Car looks really nice... Chad, not to burst your bubble but you will figure it out anyways, but all Formula's and GTA's from 1987- 1992 had WS6, it was technically only an "Option" on the Trans Am...

BUT you will find that the Formula, if well maintained and everything tight is a blast to drive...

Enjoy

John

 

We're a picky bunch, don't mind us too much. It really looks nice. We require more pics of course.

 

The bubble has not been burst. I appreciate the heads up. There is a lot I have to learn about restoring or "fixing up" cars. I will have tons of questions but y'all have been very helpful and kept me from getting the wrong car or spending too much.