so, after reading this i checked my center link with a digital level, it reads off by .1 degree, i dont think i have this same issue with my K6249, however, i still have straight tracking issues. Any chance someone can give some measurements for me to check against? or can i assume i can use my pitman arm as what the dims should be.

 

Finally dug my old one out of the scrap bin. Spot on match to the moog. I admit I can't confirm that the old one is original but i believe it is. I bought the car from my cousin who had it since 3?,000 miles. This fall I'll have owned it 17 years.

 

How is everyone adjusting their idler arms? Seems really difficult to get at the top bolt with a passenger tire on. Ideas?

I'm sure it's a simple solution, enlighten me please.

 

Take the passenger tire... off?

 

My understanding is the center link needs to be level with the suspension loaded. How can I guarantee the car is level with the tire off?

 

I put jack stands under the a arms to load the suspension.

 

Thanks!!!!!

 

Drive on lift works well for me but you should be able to get it level without the tie rods even hooked up.

 

I'm seeing a lot of posts talking about the centerlink being "level." You can't go off using an actual level to measure it or measuring it to the ground. It needs to be measured and adjusted to make it parallel with the A-arm bolts. Unless your A-arms are perfectly level with the ground, the other methods won't make it correct.

 

The A-arm bolts should be level with the ground as well, if not, that also needs to be addressed.

 

Yes, but they won't be within 1mm or so within each other when compared to the ground. The instructions say to try to get each side of the centerlink within 1mm difference when measured to the A-arm bolts. I wouldn't trust the ground as your reference point. Anything could throw that off like different tire pressures, slightly uneven pavement, etc.

 

This is my setup, you can notice the left side is actually higher than the right. This was a cheap $100 rebuild kit on ebay over a year ago that included everything.

I threw this on the car to get it in the body shop. However, I replaced all of it with MOOG parts and billet aluminum adjuster sleeves from Hotchkis. The trick seems to be adjusting the idler arm while it's still very loose in the frame. I'm pretty sure my MOOG is perfectly level but I will grab a picture when I am home.

 

I just swapped in all new moog components everything is level compared to the kmember.

The only issue I've been having is my tie rods seem too long or something, as I cannot adjust them in far enough to get my wheels straight. Had the same issue with a cheap $100 kit I purchased online, thought the moogs would fair better.

Looks like I might have to cut the inner rods down 1/4-1/2" each side

 

Also, it doesn't matter the shape of the part, it could do 5 zigzags, as long as the 2 mounting points are in the same exact locations with the same spacing, there shouldn't be an issue.

The frame gives ALOT of adjust-ability on the idle arm side to make up any slight variance

 

Had to do this on my brothers bird. Not sure what the deal is there...possibly a center link that's too long? We took about 1/2" off the inner and outer tie rod ends on one side and all is well now.

Exactly, but the mounting points were not exactly the same between the moog idler and the factory pitman arm. Thats what I was getting at. Theres a lot of adjustment in the chassis for the idler arm, but even all the way up as far as I could get it, mine would not level out the centerlink.

 

The centerlink is not affected at all by the suspension being loaded or unloaded. Only the angle of the inner/outer tierods will change based on the suspension.

The reason being, the centerlink pivots on the idler and pitman arm on the horizontal axis only. It does not have any vertical movement, nor should it when turned left to right. If it moves vertically at all, then you have an alignment issue (pitman and idler are not leveled on the same plane) or a loose connection, hope this helps

 

Did you remove 1/2" total, or a 1/2" off each end totaling 1"?

It's always hard to tell by picture, the best way is to lay the pitman arms on a sheet of paper and map out the distance between center points and overall dimensions then compare.

If someone had a couple spares laying around I could caliper them out and post the results here to verify if the spacing is indeed different

 

I've been thinking about your issue. Was wondering if your car was ever tied down to a trailer/rollback. Someone maybe may have hooked on and pulled down the steering linkage and moved the idler arm bracket down a bit?

Maybe a stretch but who knows.

 

When we did it, we removed roughly 1/2" off of each tie rod, so 1" total. We wanted to make sure we'd have plenty of adjustment if need be. With the tie rods at their uncut length and bottomed out on the adjuster sleeve, the wheel still had a noticeable toe out. We knew it was going to take a bit of adjustment to get in correct, and the 1/2" cut off each tie rod worked out great.

I've owned the car for 13 years and it's been on trailers, but never improperly tied down. Can't speak for a previous owner, but the mount for the idler arm looks very straight and original. I did examine it pretty closely during this issue lol, and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

 

I just did a complete suspension rebuild using all Moog parts. no issues with tie rod lengths or idler arm location.

 

This is true. Moog is owned by Federal Mogul. It looks like FM supplies two different idler arms. The cheaper MRC line through NAPA is incorrect as well, and probably the same that is coming in the Moog box. The premium NCP one is correct and the same as what is coming in the AC Delco box.

Sorry I forgot to follow up on this.

Yes the NAPA NCP 268-3635 is correct and the same as the AC Delco part. It looks like it is in short supply as well. Federal Mogul has been upside down for over a year due to some warehousing changes. Hopefully they get it together soon.

 

Seems like the correct units are:

ACDelco 45C1065 Professional Idler Link Arm
NAPA NCP 268-3635

Any idea who has these in stock, no luck so far?

My Moog idler arm is fitted but has never been used. Any word on what Moog are going to do about this mess?

 

NAPA has a couple in warehouses, but will probably have to be ordered depending on where you are. It looks like Rock Auto still has the AC Delco, but I don't see many sources. I would assume Johnson Industries probably has some AC D in stock if you have a hook up there.

 

I picked my AC delco up from rock auto. Shipping was very reasonable and it came within a few days. I'd highly recommend them if you can't find anything locally.

 

I could not find anymore AC Delco idler arms so I went ahead and went to NAPA and picked up the $90+ dollar one. The one in the car now is a NAPA brand that was installed in my car back in 1994. It's still doing great and that was good enough for me to get another one.

 

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just replaced some suspension components on my car, including the idler arm, and I can say this:

THE AC DELCO IDLER AND THE MOOG ARE THE SAME.

I had a Moog arm sitting on a shelf in my shop for years, and because of this thread, I didn't use it and bought a Delco piece from Rock Auto a few days ago.

It was the same part, down to the casting number on the arm (6717-C WN2).
Same shape, same parts kit (why did they only come with one lock-nut when two are required?), etc.

I'm not calling the first poster a liar or anything, but I am saying that now Delco seems to be substituting the part.

 

The OEM's (GM, Ford, etc.) are always changing part suppliers/manufacturers. For right now at this point in time, GM/ACDelco and Moog are probably getting the part from the same manufacturer.

Unfortunately for us, the manufacturer that was making the "correct" part is probably long gone.

When I replaced my idler arm many moons ago, I replaced it with a Big "A" brand part which was manufactured by TRW. No install or config issues.

 

If you look at my pictures comparing the two, you can clearly see my version of the AC delco arm is very different from the moog. Unfortunately I'm sure AC delco switched to a cheaper supplier, which is the same one making the moog part. Sucks for us I guess. The napa part may still be the same as the old AC delco part.

 

Ok so this post is mostly about the idler arm being completely different. Are the tie rods wrong as well? I just bought inner and outers from amazon and if they are wrong i wont even accept the package.

 

Nobody was talking about tie rods, accept your package

 

A few people mentioned having to shave the tie rods down a little. Also about buying all moog parts, etc. So just making sure.
I dont know the exact details history of my car (although I have a lot of receipts), but one I do know is that the a previous owner put a moog sway bar (i think) on it, and Im wondering if they used other moog parts as well (which could be a reason why my steering feels a little off).

 

All other moog parts are fine. Im running full moog all around, havent even swapped the idler yet.

 

I recently changed my steering box and got an alignment. Still had the moog idler arm on.. the car will not stay center!!

So I finally swapped the moog out for the acdelco I bought last year (made in usa, etc), and here's what I saw...





I got the center link as level as possible with the help of the wife. I'm headed out for a test drive soon, but I'm sure I'll need another alignment. Firestone will love me taking advantage of the "lifetime" alignment so soon...

 

Looks like the moog is different to me! LOL, report back on whether the alignment and AC delco idler improves your steering at all. I know my car has been steering great since the swap

 

I swapped to ACDelco idler arm like I posted, as well as the ACDelco center link (different than the moog visually). Car still wanders.

Leaves me with the lower control arm bushings. They're worn.

If you're car is dancing over the road and you've changed everything else, check them. LCA bushings aren't fun to replace but are probably the cause of my wander.

 

What steering shaft are you using?

 

Astro shaft.

 

Who rebuilt the box?
How much toe in do you have? Toe out can cause wandering/harder to drive straight.

 

Lares box. No play in it, feels fantastic. There isn't play between the steering wheel, box, and center link. All those are snug. Any movement of the wheel is directly translated to pitman arm movement.

First round of alignment was 0.03 / 0.08 toe. Second round after center link and idler arm yesterday is -0.01 / -0.02 toe.

The thing is the car is all over, driving miss daisy style at times. I have money on those control arm bushings as they're a significant area of wear that could affect toe and camber dynamically. Pretty sure they're the only suspension component I haven't changed.

 

Yeah, if the bushings are worn.Its not gonna hold an alignment.I dont remember what deg translates to in fractions anymore.Does neg toe mean toe out?

 

Apparently it can vary from shop/system, but positive (+) is usually toe in, and (-) toe out.

 

Bet that toe out isnt helping either.I always run about 1/16 toe in myself.

 

I'm curious what it will be after the control arm bushings. If the car drives good I'll wait a few 1000 miles before cashing in my lifetime alignment again. I feel so bad showing up every 2 weeks lol.

 

I wouldnt, ive been looking for a shop that still offers a lifetime alignment.Havent been to one in ten years!!

 

Firestone locations offer lifetime for ~189.

Dropped the car off at my mechanic with a set of ACDelco LCA bushings for both sides.

He seemed as confused as I am about why it won't track strait. Agrees swapping those are worth a shot.

I usually do most of the work on my car myself, but I don't have an easy way to press out the bushings; burning them out / cutting them sounded sketchy. $100 per side, not cheap, but not unreasonable. The cost is exactly why I do my own work most of the time though.

 

Yeah, I have a small HF press that's served me well for fifteen years for that kinda stuff.

 

LCAs in... they were bad, but didn't fix the steering wandering. Mechanic still thinks it's the box. Doing a replacement for the reman, as well as rebuilding my own just in case.

I just want my car to drive half-way decent. I can't even enjoy it anymore.

 

Steering box and strut mounts fixed my wandering.. mostly the steering box.

 

Great info Whitedevilta! I replaced the steering components back in 2012 per some threads on this site. I bought the parts from Rockauto, and I chose Moog. I haven’t driven the car more than 100 miles since then as I just finished an LS swap. I changed the front springs due to the lighter aluminum 5.3 engine.So, I needed an alignment. Imagine my surprise when the shop told me that my idler arm was bad. A brief search brought me here. I got the A/C Delco part, and I had the car aligned again. The car drives nice and straight. Before and after alignment specs below:

 

Glad it helped you out John! Some say they have had no issues with the moog idler arm, but in my opinion it should be designed so that it matches the factory arm to a "T." Not sure why moog designed theirs so that it didn't follow the same angles as the pitman arm, but luckily the AC delco version IS in fact an exact match still.