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Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
so, after reading this i checked my center link with a digital level, it reads off by .1 degree, i dont think i have this same issue with my K6249, however, i still have straight tracking issues. Any chance someone can give some measurements for me to check against? or can i assume i can use my pitman arm as what the dims should be.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Finally dug my old one out of the scrap bin. Spot on match to the moog. I admit I can't confirm that the old one is original but i believe it is. I bought the car from my cousin who had it since 3?,000 miles. This fall I'll have owned it 17 years.
Last edited by plum92_camaro; 10-23-2016 at 08:13 PM.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I'm seeing a lot of posts talking about the centerlink being "level." You can't go off using an actual level to measure it or measuring it to the ground. It needs to be measured and adjusted to make it parallel with the A-arm bolts. Unless your A-arms are perfectly level with the ground, the other methods won't make it correct.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by TTOP350
The A-arm bolts should be level with the ground as well, if not, that also needs to be addressed.
Yes, but they won't be within 1mm or so within each other when compared to the ground. The instructions say to try to get each side of the centerlink within 1mm difference when measured to the A-arm bolts. I wouldn't trust the ground as your reference point. Anything could throw that off like different tire pressures, slightly uneven pavement, etc.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
This is my setup, you can notice the left side is actually higher than the right. This was a cheap $100 rebuild kit on ebay over a year ago that included everything.
I threw this on the car to get it in the body shop. However, I replaced all of it with MOOG parts and billet aluminum adjuster sleeves from Hotchkis. The trick seems to be adjusting the idler arm while it's still very loose in the frame. I'm pretty sure my MOOG is perfectly level but I will grab a picture when I am home.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I just swapped in all new moog components everything is level compared to the kmember.
The only issue I've been having is my tie rods seem too long or something, as I cannot adjust them in far enough to get my wheels straight. Had the same issue with a cheap $100 kit I purchased online, thought the moogs would fair better.
Looks like I might have to cut the inner rods down 1/4-1/2" each side
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Also, it doesn't matter the shape of the part, it could do 5 zigzags, as long as the 2 mounting points are in the same exact locations with the same spacing, there shouldn't be an issue.
The frame gives ALOT of adjust-ability on the idle arm side to make up any slight variance
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by Ryan Wehrle
I just swapped in all new moog components everything is level compared to the kmember.
The only issue I've been having is my tie rods seem too long or something, as I cannot adjust them in far enough to get my wheels straight. Had the same issue with a cheap $100 kit I purchased online, thought the moogs would fair better.
Looks like I might have to cut the inner rods down 1/4-1/2" each side
Had to do this on my brothers bird. Not sure what the deal is there...possibly a center link that's too long? We took about 1/2" off the inner and outer tie rod ends on one side and all is well now.
Originally Posted by Ryan Wehrle
Also, it doesn't matter the shape of the part, it could do 5 zigzags, as long as the 2 mounting points are in the same exact locations with the same spacing, there shouldn't be an issue.
The frame gives ALOT of adjust-ability on the idle arm side to make up any slight variance
Exactly, but the mounting points were not exactly the same between the moog idler and the factory pitman arm. Thats what I was getting at. Theres a lot of adjustment in the chassis for the idler arm, but even all the way up as far as I could get it, mine would not level out the centerlink.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by joshy1410
My understanding is the center link needs to be level with the suspension loaded. How can I guarantee the car is level with the tire off?
The centerlink is not affected at all by the suspension being loaded or unloaded. Only the angle of the inner/outer tierods will change based on the suspension.
The reason being, the centerlink pivots on the idler and pitman arm on the horizontal axis only. It does not have any vertical movement, nor should it when turned left to right. If it moves vertically at all, then you have an alignment issue (pitman and idler are not leveled on the same plane) or a loose connection, hope this helps
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by whitedevilTA
Had to do this on my brothers bird. Not sure what the deal is there...possibly a center link that's too long? We took about 1/2" off the inner and outer tie rod ends on one side and all is well now.
Did you remove 1/2" total, or a 1/2" off each end totaling 1"?
Originally Posted by whitedevilTA
Exactly, but the mounting points were not exactly the same between the moog idler and the factory pitman arm. Thats what I was getting at. Theres a lot of adjustment in the chassis for the idler arm, but even all the way up as far as I could get it, mine would not level out the centerlink.
It's always hard to tell by picture, the best way is to lay the pitman arms on a sheet of paper and map out the distance between center points and overall dimensions then compare.
If someone had a couple spares laying around I could caliper them out and post the results here to verify if the spacing is indeed different
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I've been thinking about your issue. Was wondering if your car was ever tied down to a trailer/rollback. Someone maybe may have hooked on and pulled down the steering linkage and moved the idler arm bracket down a bit?
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by Ryan Wehrle
Did you remove 1/2" total, or a 1/2" off each end totaling 1"?
When we did it, we removed roughly 1/2" off of each tie rod, so 1" total. We wanted to make sure we'd have plenty of adjustment if need be. With the tie rods at their uncut length and bottomed out on the adjuster sleeve, the wheel still had a noticeable toe out. We knew it was going to take a bit of adjustment to get in correct, and the 1/2" cut off each tie rod worked out great.
Originally Posted by TTOP350
I've been thinking about your issue. Was wondering if your car was ever tied down to a trailer/rollback. Someone maybe may have hooked on and pulled down the steering linkage and moved the idler arm bracket down a bit?
Maybe a stretch but who knows.
I've owned the car for 13 years and it's been on trailers, but never improperly tied down. Can't speak for a previous owner, but the mount for the idler arm looks very straight and original. I did examine it pretty closely during this issue lol, and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by scooter
Sorry but Moog=Federal Mogul
This is true. Moog is owned by Federal Mogul. It looks like FM supplies two different idler arms. The cheaper MRC line through NAPA is incorrect as well, and probably the same that is coming in the Moog box. The premium NCP one is correct and the same as what is coming in the AC Delco box.
Originally Posted by whitedevilTA
Yes sir, that was exactly how mine looked as well (on the opposite side), and I couldn't get the idler arm adjusted high enough to correct it. The AC delco or an equivalent should fix it for sure. Someone said they thought the NAPA idler arm may be the correct style as well, but I haven't confirmed it yet.
Sorry I forgot to follow up on this.
Yes the NAPA NCP 268-3635 is correct and the same as the AC Delco part. It looks like it is in short supply as well. Federal Mogul has been upside down for over a year due to some warehousing changes. Hopefully they get it together soon.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by peterc005
Seems like the correct units are:
ACDelco 45C1065 Professional Idler Link Arm
NAPA NCP 268-3635
Any idea who has these in stock, no luck so far?
My Moog idler arm is fitted but has never been used. Any word on what Moog are going to do about this mess?
NAPA has a couple in warehouses, but will probably have to be ordered depending on where you are. It looks like Rock Auto still has the AC Delco, but I don't see many sources. I would assume Johnson Industries probably has some AC D in stock if you have a hook up there.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I picked my AC delco up from rock auto. Shipping was very reasonable and it came within a few days. I'd highly recommend them if you can't find anything locally.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I could not find anymore AC Delco idler arms so I went ahead and went to NAPA and picked up the $90+ dollar one. The one in the car now is a NAPA brand that was installed in my car back in 1994. It's still doing great and that was good enough for me to get another one.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just replaced some suspension components on my car, including the idler arm, and I can say this:
THE AC DELCO IDLER AND THE MOOG ARE THE SAME.
I had a Moog arm sitting on a shelf in my shop for years, and because of this thread, I didn't use it and bought a Delco piece from Rock Auto a few days ago.
It was the same part, down to the casting number on the arm (6717-C WN2).
Same shape, same parts kit (why did they only come with one lock-nut when two are required?), etc.
I'm not calling the first poster a liar or anything, but I am saying that now Delco seems to be substituting the part.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by dixiebandit69
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just replaced some suspension components on my car, including the idler arm, and I can say this:
THE AC DELCO IDLER AND THE MOOG ARE THE SAME.
I had a Moog arm sitting on a shelf in my shop for years, and because of this thread, I didn't use it and bought a Delco piece from Rock Auto a few days ago.
It was the same part, down to the casting number on the arm (6717-C WN2).
Same shape, same parts kit (why did they only come with one lock-nut when two are required?), etc.
I'm not calling the first poster a liar or anything, but I am saying that now Delco seems to be substituting the part.
The OEM's (GM, Ford, etc.) are always changing part suppliers/manufacturers. For right now at this point in time, GM/ACDelco and Moog are probably getting the part from the same manufacturer.
Unfortunately for us, the manufacturer that was making the "correct" part is probably long gone.
When I replaced my idler arm many moons ago, I replaced it with a Big "A" brand part which was manufactured by TRW. No install or config issues.
Last edited by paulo57509; 10-07-2016 at 01:05 PM.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by dixiebandit69
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I just replaced some suspension components on my car, including the idler arm, and I can say this:
THE AC DELCO IDLER AND THE MOOG ARE THE SAME.
I had a Moog arm sitting on a shelf in my shop for years, and because of this thread, I didn't use it and bought a Delco piece from Rock Auto a few days ago.
It was the same part, down to the casting number on the arm (6717-C WN2).
Same shape, same parts kit (why did they only come with one lock-nut when two are required?), etc.
I'm not calling the first poster a liar or anything, but I am saying that now Delco seems to be substituting the part.
If you look at my pictures comparing the two, you can clearly see my version of the AC delco arm is very different from the moog. Unfortunately I'm sure AC delco switched to a cheaper supplier, which is the same one making the moog part. Sucks for us I guess. The napa part may still be the same as the old AC delco part.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Ok so this post is mostly about the idler arm being completely different. Are the tie rods wrong as well? I just bought inner and outers from amazon and if they are wrong i wont even accept the package.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Originally Posted by thtanner
Nobody was talking about tie rods, accept your package
A few people mentioned having to shave the tie rods down a little. Also about buying all moog parts, etc. So just making sure.
I dont know the exact details history of my car (although I have a lot of receipts), but one I do know is that the a previous owner put a moog sway bar (i think) on it, and Im wondering if they used other moog parts as well (which could be a reason why my steering feels a little off).
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I recently changed my steering box and got an alignment. Still had the moog idler arm on.. the car will not stay center!!
So I finally swapped the moog out for the acdelco I bought last year (made in usa, etc), and here's what I saw...
I got the center link as level as possible with the help of the wife. I'm headed out for a test drive soon, but I'm sure I'll need another alignment. Firestone will love me taking advantage of the "lifetime" alignment so soon...
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Looks like the moog is different to me! LOL, report back on whether the alignment and AC delco idler improves your steering at all. I know my car has been steering great since the swap
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I swapped to ACDelco idler arm like I posted, as well as the ACDelco center link (different than the moog visually). Car still wanders.
Leaves me with the lower control arm bushings. They're worn.
If you're car is dancing over the road and you've changed everything else, check them. LCA bushings aren't fun to replace but are probably the cause of my wander.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Lares box. No play in it, feels fantastic. There isn't play between the steering wheel, box, and center link. All those are snug. Any movement of the wheel is directly translated to pitman arm movement.
First round of alignment was 0.03 / 0.08 toe. Second round after center link and idler arm yesterday is -0.01 / -0.02 toe.
The thing is the car is all over, driving miss daisy style at times. I have money on those control arm bushings as they're a significant area of wear that could affect toe and camber dynamically. Pretty sure they're the only suspension component I haven't changed.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
I'm curious what it will be after the control arm bushings. If the car drives good I'll wait a few 1000 miles before cashing in my lifetime alignment again. I feel so bad showing up every 2 weeks lol.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Firestone locations offer lifetime for ~189.
Dropped the car off at my mechanic with a set of ACDelco LCA bushings for both sides.
He seemed as confused as I am about why it won't track strait. Agrees swapping those are worth a shot.
I usually do most of the work on my car myself, but I don't have an easy way to press out the bushings; burning them out / cutting them sounded sketchy. $100 per side, not cheap, but not unreasonable. The cost is exactly why I do my own work most of the time though.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
LCAs in... they were bad, but didn't fix the steering wandering. Mechanic still thinks it's the box. Doing a replacement for the reman, as well as rebuilding my own just in case.
I just want my car to drive half-way decent. I can't even enjoy it anymore.
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Great info Whitedevilta! I replaced the steering components back in 2012 per some threads on this site. I bought the parts from Rockauto, and I chose Moog. I haven’t driven the car more than 100 miles since then as I just finished an LS swap. I changed the front springs due to the lighter aluminum 5.3 engine.So, I needed an alignment. Imagine my surprise when the shop told me that my idler arm was bad. A brief search brought me here. I got the A/C Delco part, and I had the car aligned again. The car drives nice and straight. Before and after alignment specs below:
Re: BEWARE moog idler arms, and other generic brands - they are incorrect for these c
Glad it helped you out John! Some say they have had no issues with the moog idler arm, but in my opinion it should be designed so that it matches the factory arm to a "T." Not sure why moog designed theirs so that it didn't follow the same angles as the pitman arm, but luckily the AC delco version IS in fact an exact match still.
04-06-2016, 09:45 PM
