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Hey guys. Okay so the topic is the rear hatch alignment! In my case the back of the hatch and spoiler looks like it overhangs off the car! Meaning if comes back almost a whole inch...okay maybe closer to half...but pretty far out!
Question. I have read on thirdgen, and on Youtube...it seems that the trick is the 8 13MM bolts on the top of the GLASS part of the hatch. They have about an inch in diameter move around/wiggle room? You get a helper...unscrew the 8MM bolts on the BACK of the rear support struts, so they dangle freely, have a helper hold the hatch, loosen the 8 screws mentioned above and slide the hatch forward???
Is this the process? I read somewhere that its easy to "crack the glass" doing this by over tightening the screws? There were some other ways to adjust I read, one way mentioned removing the spoilers (seems overly complex and dose not make sense) and the other had to deal with the hinges...also made no sense.
Bottom line...its an 87 IROC with 70K on her...it hasent been driven to death and beat the hell out off...IMO it probably will and can be fixed this way...I'm trying tomorrow...but if you have other extreme methods I would like to hear.
Over time, the hatch struts push the rear decklid rearward away from the glass. Can also slide the glass rearward out of the black metal trim around the glass..
The best way is to remove the decklid from the glass, fix black trim position (if needed) reseal decklid in the correct position, let sit for a day or so then reinstall the hatch struts.
A google search may turn up some other threads on this site dealing with it.
I got two that I need to do. I will be removing the deck lid and going that route. The hinges and boltholes do not have that much slop in them. It is known by now what happens to these hatches. TTOP350 is correct in the proper way to align these.
I got two that I need to do. I will be removing the deck lid and going that route. The hinges and boltholes do not have that much slop in them. It is known by now what happens to these hatches. TTOP350 is correct in the proper way to align these.
Okay so two more questions when u say the hinges and bolt holes do not have that much slop in them? Does that means he's just didn't or maybe I should try that route first and see how it goes? Is it just me or does the other method seem like a lot of work...
Okay so two more questions when u say the hinges and bolt holes do not have that much slop in them? Does that means he's just didn't or maybe I should try that route first and see how it goes? Is it just me or does the other method seem like a lot of work...
It is a lot of work, but worth it.
The body to hinges have a hole on each side that the bolts fit tight and that locates the hinge to body. Its setup fairly similar with the hinge to glass to window trim but IIRC, there may be a touch more wiggle room there but its generally not enough to fix it completely.
It is a lot of work, but worth it.
The body to hinges have a hole on each side that the bolts fit tight and that locates the hinge to body. Its setup fairly similar with the hinge to glass to window trim but IIRC, there may be a touch more wiggle room there but its generally not enough to fix it completely.
Yeah I can fit almost my finger inside the crack at the top...if I can get it to come up some, but maybe not all the way I assume its better than nothing. I have a helper helping me. I was going to get them to hold the trunk up while I take off the struts, then bring the trunk down level and loosen up those 8bolts. Is this thing pretty easy to slide up and down or do you really have to put some effort into it...thanks
My glass is all the way forward and I can put my pinky finger in it. They have a fairly large gap from the factory.
I spoke with a mechanic from Hawks Motorsports today and they said they came from the factory sticking out a little already, he said that slide it forward on those 13MM bolts we spoke about and it will maybe not get it perfect but better than it is more than likely. So tonight, HOPEFULLY me and the GF will get out there and she will hold up the glass while I do everything. Wish me luck! I'll be pissed if I loosen everything and it does not move up at all!
If the hatch overhanges the back too much,....... add shims under each hinge. You'll need to add a spacer or 2 under each hindge in order to move the overhanging hatch glass closer to the car.
The factory hatches were all aligned based on each specific car. I always find a various amount and thickness to the shims placed under the hatch hinges when I remove hatches from these cars. Here is a small example of 3 hinges that I grabbed from my spares box.....
You can clearly see that the spacers used under each of these 3 hinges is VERY different. The top 1 uses 2 spacers, the middle has a thick spacer and the bottom 1 used a single thin spacer.
Yes,... all these cars HAD a hatch that slightly overhangs the car,... so don't go crazy and try to remove all of the existing overhang !!
Those spacers are used to level the glass and for the height of the glass to the roofline. They won't move the hatch forward or backward.
A side note for the people (in other threads) saying slide the glass forward on the hinge or slide the hinge forward on the body, notice how the hinge is slotted left to right, that only allows left to right movement and not forward/rearward movement and also holds the bolt through the glass from turning. The glass to hinge attaching plastic headed bolt is pretty much not moving around much in the glass either.
The body of the car where the hinge studs come through is about the same, it has a one hole on each side that locates the hinge properly, no real movement.
Its all designed that way to align the glass, hinge, body where it needs to be.
In practice,... they do. Adding a spacer will reduce the overhang,...... removing them will make it bigger.
These are particularly important because many times when swapping hatches these spacers can be "missed" or overlooked. Sometimes sticking to the car and sometimes sticking to the hinge. The hatch/hinges then gets installed on another body that might - or might not - have original spacers still stuck in place on the body. These spacers can lead to - and help correct - a hatch that doesn't line up very well and shouldn't be disregarded.
saying slide the glass forward on the hinge or slide the hinge forward on the body, notice how the hinge is slotted left to right,
Look at the picture again...... Those are all Thirdgen hinges and they are NOT all the same. The Top and Bottom hinges have a slotted bole on BOTH sides. Some hinges are shorter from end to end as well and they should ALL have a slight bend in them.
Last edited by John in RI; 08-15-2017 at 12:27 PM.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't those spacers mount between the hinge and the body? And they mount on the stud part of the hinge? Those studs mount almost vertically with the spacer laying down flat, how could they move the forward or rearward ? (Keep in mind I've only worked with 88-92 rear hatches)
On the hinge itself, I'm sure there were updates through the years, I was pointing out there really isn't any adjustment to move the glass forward or rearward with the glass, hinge, body area. yes, some don't have the slotted hinge to move the glass left or right.
Hey guys...okay so....I'v decided that at my level of mechanical skills I'm holding off on the whole adding shims, and removing the glass etc job...so I figured I would do the easy route by loosing the 4 13MM bolts that when you have the glass in the air you can get underneath too. Well I loosened those and the hatch wouldn't move forward. I disconnected the struts etc. Well...ha...yeah the problem is now is that the new struts I bought are the super strong ones that pop the hatch up like a cannon! So what happens is my helper (GF) and or me holds the back hatch and I THINK I'v gotten it centered and I tell her okay babe tighten the bolts real fast...well every durn time that damn hatch is off centered to the right! Ugh!!!! I was thinking of taking a red chalk pencil and doing outline circles of the outside of the plastic or rubber bolt areas to see if I can get it better that way...its really annoying indeed...and those struts are so strong I cant push down on one side without fear of hurting the spoiler etc! The hatch closes fine though...my buddy was like "Just wait until the struts get weak and adjust it", I'm like how long will that take, 5 years! Ha. I almost feel like even if its straight when I tigten it those struts are just so strong that they basically move the bolts anyways and position where they want to be...I'm also afraid of over tightening the bolts for obvious reasons...
get marks on there to help identify when it does move or not, but verify it is the glass that is misaligned and not the deck. Last time I took one apart, I did not find any adjustments on the hinge side of the hatch, except for the shims
get marks on there to help identify when it does move or not, but verify it is the glass that is misaligned and not the deck. Last time I took one apart, I did not find any adjustments on the hinge side of the hatch, except for the shims
So yeah...these are the hinges at the very top...IMO...unless I'm an idiot I can visually see the glass moving with the bolts up there!...so I hope I'm right...I remember it being straight until I replaced the struts...AND then later on loosened those bolts, doah! I should have just left it alone..I now think the slight over hang is acceptable and not that big of a deal, idiot.
get marks on there to help identify when it does move or not, but verify it is the glass that is misaligned and not the deck. Last time I took one apart, I did not find any adjustments on the hinge side of the hatch, except for the shims
If this is something I don't have time to tackle or feel overwhelmed could a decent auto body shop do this for me and get it aligned...the part where the top of the glass matches up to the lip of the roof is too far off...im just worried if I took it to an auto body shop they would be confused and not do it right
Hey Bob...Iv decided that I either don't have time/helpers for this...and also maybe the skill level...I have the manual these pages u sent came out of...if I were to take this to an auto body shop would they be able WITH manual to possibly do this the RIGHT way and fix her??? Thanks man
All any shop needs to know is what's written in that 1st paragraph under "Adjustments". Adjustments in all 4 directions occur at the body-to-hinge location and are possible by the oversized holes and spacers.
The factory used a sealer a the hinge holes. This old sealer needs to be COMPLETELY removed if you are attempting to realign the hatch. I say that because this sealer gets hard and will remain,.... limiting any "free movement" when trying to make adjustments. Be sure to clean all the old sealer from the holes, hinges, spacers ---- EVERYTHING --- and re-seal with fresh urethane sealer.
Like many of you I had the same problem with the rear overhang. It was driving me nuts to look at it. I took the hatch completely off. . And as most of you know there is no adjustment at the body Or the hinge. Then I noticed where the hatch struts actually mount to. I took off the plastic trim panel on the inside of the hatch. And I could see where the metal deck lid has slid back on the glass. You can see the black goo has a gap in it. So I loosened all the 13mm nuts that sandwich the black bracket and the deck lid. But here's the trick. There's so much force from the struts, you have to disconnect them to push the deck lid forward. Then tighten the 13mm nuts. Don't forget to take the 2 trim screws out of the rear of the outer metal trim. On my car I had to redrill (1/8") the holes to reinstall the trim. I can't explain why these holes are off when you get the deck lid in the proper position. Maybe the trim stretched. Here's the result. Don't let anyone say that there's supposed to be an overhang and live with it. This can be done.
Look at the trim at the top of the glass where it meets you will have a 1/4 inch gap. When these cars were new there was no gap .It's well documented the deck lid slides back on the glass and not the hinges to the body. Glad you fixed it the correct way
Interesting...I see what you mean though...thanks for the detailed pics and taking the time to put all that together on a post btw. It looks so much better once this is aligned properly and no overhang...my fear is eventually the rear hatch will not shut bc the over hand will continue to grow...plus...I think it can effect rain water leaking inside the hatch area inside the car...but not sure.
There is a gap in this spot on your car because there is a piece of factory installed plastic trim missing. The "outline" of that piece of trim is clearly visible in your pic.
There is a gap in this spot on your car because there is a piece of factory installed plastic trim missing. The "outline" of that piece of trim is clearly visible in your pic.
The plastic has a thin J that hooks around the glass and isn't near as wide as that gap. My plastic fell off that area and its what finally made me adjust the decklid/hatch.
There is a gap in this spot on your car because there is a piece of factory installed plastic trim missing. The "outline" of that piece of trim is clearly visible in your pic.
Right, the gap was visible after I removed that plastic trim you mentioned.
But I think you missed the point of my post. The overhang is completely the result of the decklid shifting back, and has nothing to do with the hinges. Just want to make sure people don't do what I did and remove the hatch unnecessarily to try and fix the overhang issue.
So in your fixing of the overhang, you never removed the deck from the glass on then resealed it? Or you just loosened up everything and shifted the deck forward?
where exactly are these two trim screws you said not to forget to remove? I might try this too. Thanks
Follow the black metal trim around the outside of the glass, to the back of the hatch. It widens and attaches to the deck lid with two phillips screws.
Last edited by jczoka; 10-07-2017 at 06:44 PM.
Reason: Clarity
I will try this tonight! I'm tired of looking at my overhang but have been wanting to wait until I can afford a new spoiler. Mine looks horrible hanging over 3/4".
What's interesting to me (first time I've read this particular thread) is, if the hatch panels are sliding on the glass, then the adhesive is releasing. What keeps it from just sliding all the way off or getting loose like a windshield does? Does the metal panel have studs that go through the glass or is just bonded on there? If it does have studs and the nuts are tight, how is it able to slide? Just curious about that as I've never had one apart before.
Got me thinking...Being that the holes in the glass are larger than the studs, which makes sense....If you lined every thing up and got every thing positioned, I'm wondering if you could make little filler pieces like grommets that take up the remaining space between the stud and the glass....like a half moon plug? That way the deck studs can't slide back any further. Just a thought.
Gave it a shot today and it definitely improved it, not perfect but worth a try if your overhang is not off by much. Funny thing is I had it perfect until I hooked up the hatch struts, those things are powerful for sure. How I compensated for that was to loosen the hinge at the glass with 13mm wrench and push it in. Just be sure to be very careful tightening them back you do t want to shatter the rear window. Another tip is to get your best alignment is loosen everything up and shut the trunk, get it where you want it then climb in through the back seat with them folded down and tighten them up.
Hey Bob...Iv decided that I either don't have time/helpers for this...and also maybe the skill level...I have the manual these pages u sent came out of...if I were to take this to an auto body shop would they be able WITH manual to possibly do this the RIGHT way and fix her??? Thanks man
What manual do you speak of???????????????? I am needing to do this right after paint and body.
I'm confident in that why it's such a pain to adjust, when the struts are hooked back up, that hatch flexes big time. So I'd do all the final adjustments with the struts hooked back up and hatch shut.
also, definitely dont try and do this alone especially if your taking the hatch off. It's very easy to scratch the paint or worse, break the glass.
I'm in the middle of adjusting my deck lid, and there's something that doesnt make sense. If I adjust the lid to glass position so that the three sections of the spoiler are aligned, the two screw holes on each side of the wide section of the glass trim (shown in this picture) will be in the wrong positions.
I could drill new holes for the screws, but that obviously means things wouldn't be back in the factory positions. I see there is a gap between the two ends of the trim piece at the top center of the glass. It seems to me like this must mean the decklid being pushed back by the struts caused the trim to separate and move back as well.
If all this is true, is there a way to push the trim back together so that the holes will line up again, or will I have to drill new holes and leave the gap as it is?
I ended up drilling new holes. Because I had already painted and installed the trim pieces a month before I did the hatch re-alignment, and didn't want to scratch them up. Next time I will try to close the gap up. But I don't know what it will take to get the alignment right. A lot of angles involved. I'm convinced that the gap is from the lower hatch shift on the glass. Please post pics if you end up doing this process. I know a lot of us could learn from it.
08-08-2017, 12:49 AM
