Vinscully50

How many times have you guys heard this with your third gens? In 8 years of ownership I can honestly say hundreds if not a thousand times. When ever I have my hood open at the dealership, gas station or a cars and coffees meet usually some old guy comes along says he likes me car but then gives me advice on how I show get rid of my complex fuel injection and put a carb in it's place. I've been told too that carbs are better, the TPI system was terrible and it's why the third gen was so hated for so long, that TPI is too complex or my personal favorite a guy has a friend that has a friend that has a friend that has a friend that has a friend's who has a third cousin twice removed who has a great grandson that replaced his TPI with a 750 double pumper and he has a 10 second car. Carburetor

Of course any time I tell them I like my TPI system and plan to keep it, I get looked at like I have two heads or told I'm being stubborn.

Or the other funny thing is occasionally I will meet people who think that my TPI is an aftermarket system. When I tell them it's factory fuel injected they argue with me that Camaros didn't have fuel injection back in the 80s. They then tell me about their buddy who owned one back in 1989 and his was carbureted and there for all of them had to be carbureted. Or my TPI gets mistaken for an LT1 or an LS1.

What are some funny stories you have had regarding your TPI?

skinny z

Not mine but the first time I saw a TPI it was a Vette engine swap into early 80's Monte Carlo. I thought it was pretty sharp looking.
Fast forward about 10 years and my third 3rd gen was an 86 IROC. When that 305 let go , I scrapped it and the TPI and have been carbed ever since. Back then, which would have been the late 90's, EFI wasn't as accessible as it is today and my hot rodding sort of excluded any contemporary fuel injection that was out there. Including the TPI. Today it's a lot different.

Vader

I can't remember the last time I had to clean or adjust anything like a choke windup, idle mixture, secondary AV and metering rods, play with jets and power valves, etc. I think I might remember how, and I still have some of the Carter, Holley, and Rochester tools, but I might even have to hunt for those.

I view it as being like distributors with at least one set of points, advance weights and springs, a vacuum diaphragm, carbon core wires, and steel spark plugs - All of which required annual maintenance to retain any kind of reliability.

jharrison5

Yup carbs worked sooooooo well that's why they're still on every car on the road. Oh wait...

Vinscully50

I think a lot of these guys are older boomers that haven't really been in the car scene since the 70s. Recently, they brought a classic and probably pay someone else to work on it. So in their mind carbs are still the best thing.

Vinscully50

I'm young so I've only owned fuel injected cars. I have no idea how to adjust a carb.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

To me nothing looks as good as a clean stock TPI engine except maybe a clean HO engine with a dual snorkel air cleaner

Vinscully50

Or any of the modded TPIs with the larger runners. Either way I love the look of the TPI. It has that 80s scifi look. Makes me think of Back to the Future or Blade Runner everytime I open my hood.

ironwill

I wonder if the knuckleheads who make such ridiculously ignorant comments would say the same thing to someone driving a 2020 ZL1, or a 2019 Shelby Mustang, or a Dodge Hellcat, or a Ford Focus, or a Honda CRV, or a Silverado, or a..........just about anything else built since about the mid-'80s.

When it comes to any kind of seemingly-complicated technology, there will always be a few Luddites who decry the fact that technology has changed and that things were "better" back in the Stone Age. These are likely to be the same people who haven't yet figured out how to send an email on a laptop or reply to a text message on a cell phone. Or post a coherent statement on an internet forum.

As far as TPI is concerned, IMO, it's about as simple as a system can get and still function well in regards to providing very good performance, emissions, fuel economy, and reliability. Anyone who can't take a Helms manual and figure it out should probably either not own a 3rd gen, or else just keep the hood closed and have a pro do all the work on it.

Carburetors---Holleys in particular---were great back in the day, but that day has long-since passed with the easy availability of reasonably-priced stand-alone aftermarket FI systems that have the ability to self-learn, have easy-to-use, menu-driven controllers, and don't even need a laptop to change their parameters.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

People will always dismiss what they don't understand, in anything.

In this case, Tuned Port Injection...

- Rob

jharrison5

When you actually stop and think about it TPI intakes were basically the grandfathers of the modern EFI intake. If you've ever seen the inside of an LS1 intake then you know that there are some similarities between the two lol!

Vinscully50

I think a lot of these guys aren't DIY guys. They are guys who likely owned a muscle car in the 60s and 70s. Fell out of the car scene for a good 30+ years and now that they are retired they brought a classic with their retirement checks but haven't kept up with hot rodding and performance. Or they remember when fuel injection was young but there wasn't a large performance aftermarket for it and it was easier to replace your TPI with a double pumper circa 1987. Or TBI got a bad rep for performance and they assume fuel injection is great for daily drivers but not for drag racing.

As far as I know, I am the only 3rd Gen owner in my area. I've meet a few people who did own one back in the early 90s or so but they had a carb or TBI car. They too were surprised to see fuel injection. All of the other 80s cars I see in my area are carbed or fuel injection. One of the guys I play baseball with has an early 80s Foxbody and it's carbed, He knew about TBI from all of the 80s Chevy trucks but was surprised to learn Chevy had multiport injection in the 80s.

ironwill

I'm one of those guys, having been a teen-ager back in the '60s, and having owned and built several tri-5s and Corvettes, and worked as a mechanic in two different GM service departments. I stepped away from hot rods/performance cars during the awful gas crunch/insurance company ripoff of the late-'70s-early '80s, but unlike many of the guys you reference, I then stepped back in because of the improved technology found on cars in the mid-80s.


I will never understand having an attitude that decries technology---in any realm---and the obvious improvements that it brings to the table. Yes, cars---and aftermarket speed equipment---are more complicated today, and rightfully so if you look at the vast improvement in performance they offer compared to what was available back in the day. But it's still just nuts and bolts, and with some logic and common sense, along with the right tools, can be worked on and modified by anyone with the desire to learn.

Vinscully50

It is. It's annoying though that a lot of people give the LT1 all of the credit and forget about the TPI. I think part of it is that there are fewer TPI cars compared to TBI or HO cars. So most people remember their buddy's third gen being one of those. As were all 4th gen Z28s and Trans Ams are LT1 and later LS1.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

I scored a complete TPIS Big Mouth setup about 5 years ago for this very reason. Super nice guy took care of his stuff. Was on a perfectly running 406 probably an 11 second car even. Said “he was old school and always ran carbs” 🤷🏻‍♂️ Told him I’ve worked with both so I know where he was coming from lol

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I always choose EFI. Better control over the engine. There is a reason modern 4 cylinders and v6's are making twice the power that cars did 30 and 40 years ago.

BovineZro

iTrader: (11)

Still have the TPI setup that came with my car, and I'd like to use it on a future build (it's beat to hell and needs major cleanup, and then I might as well port it, and the TB needs some work, and I'd need a vortec base plate for my current heads, and at least one injector is bad, and and and). TPI and headers look very slick, there's just something neat about seeing all those curved tubes under the hood.

I can't imagine going carb on my car - I've got a 3000' elevation change on my work commute, and an 8000' elevation change if I were to drive out and visit my family.

Whitebird75

There is only two, or possibly three, advantages to running a carburetor. 1: the fuel, due to being added at the top of the intake, has time to absorb heat from the air, thus increasing power output by a little bit in the upper RPM range. 2: No electronic resistors, thus it is impervious to Electronic Magnetic Pulses IE: EMP's. It's the better option for a post-apocalyptic vehicle. 3: If a person has no skills at operating a computer, or doesn't own a computer, the person might have the knowledge of tuning a carburetor.

With that said, I find fuel injection far more convenient and better performing. The benefit to EFI is the ability to percicly tune the fuel delivery based on engine operating conditions. Notice a lean spot at 4,200 RPM while at 40% throttle and 8 inches of mercury in the intake manifold? then just add 3.5% of fuel at that exact point and see if it improves. Also, EFI, if available, can be tuned on a per cylinder basis. As some might not know, air does not flow equally to all cylinders under all conditions. Some EFI systems will treat each cylinder as its own "Engine" and adjust fuel to match the desired Air/Fuel Ratio. By taking this approach, we can prevent cylinder washdown that is common on carburetors by eliminating the need for tuning for the most lean cylinder.

I could keep going, but I think I have made my point. Let me know if this was helpful.

GCrites80s

A lot of people, regardless of age, only know things about cars that they learned from Dad. If Dad only knew carbs, that's all they know. They don't hang out on places like this.

nhgator

As an old almost boomer carb guy,I will never buy another carb with the aftermarket f/i syetems and support now available.

I actually regret buying the Sean Murphy carb setup I have now,which runs great and needs no adjustment since initially being setup, and not holding off and getting a newer f/i setup.

skinny z

There sure are a lot of carb haters out there! And I have no issues with EFI at all although the OEM TPI and it's operating system are just about as dated as a 4 barrel !

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

Yes, TPI is old and dated. But darn it looks cool. But seriously, back in the 80's I read an article about how the TPI equipped Vettes ruled SCCA. They were eventually banned from SCCA. The great thing about our hobby is that there is room for everyone. Plenty of companies still supporting carbs. TPI support is becoming limited but still has some support. I'm currently running MAF TPI on my 87 Monte Carlo SS. Working on switching to Speed Density.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

When I pop my hood at shows a lot of the newer Camaro guys really get a kick out of the TPI... They think it’s cool you can rev the motor from under the hood too...

I find the TPI motors look better than most of the old carbs with big, goofy air cleaners and the newer motors covered in plastic... Lots of people seem to agree it’s a great looking motor... Reminds me of the Corvette ZR1 LT-5

There was a time a lot of hot-rodders were putting TPIs in old Mercurys and Fords, etc... I had a friend that took TPIs out of junk yards for nothing, cleaned them and re-sold them for profit... Somebody sure wanted them in the 90s-early 2000s

GCrites80s

Yeah that was around the time that TPIs were the default choice of "rodders" and "street machines" that wanted EFI and weren't looking to make 600hp. Especailly speed density so that they could just run a cone filter and not have to hang a MAF out front somehow.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

I think they were also used for the looks... To paraphrase Doc Brown, “If you’re gonna turn a carb car into a fuelie, why not do it with style!” I’ve seen some pretty good looking custom TPI setups. Even at the cruise nights now I’d bet a little kid would think the TPI motor was faster than the ‘17 Camaro LS or the 327 parked next to it...

They looked like they should have been at least 300 horse...

vinny R

TPI's have always looked to be higher horse than what they truly are. In fact what I get the most from the uneducated at shows: "Is that thing supercharged?" I guess the plenum kind of resembles one.

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

It's a great looking induction setup

vinny R

And for those of you that are on the fence to go carb or not, there is always this.....



Who the hell comes up this crap and do you think it will work?

WildCard600

The TPC ? Tuned Port Carburetor ?

Vinscully50

I remember there was that MacGyver episode (original series) where MacGyver's friend raced Trans Am and they came up with an experimental new engine and it just looked like the TPI with a carb on top.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

And at the cruise night tonight... A Ford with TPI

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Best looking engine Ford never had

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I will say one thing about a TPI engine then hush..Sure do look better than those engines with coil packs all over the valve covers and you dont have to cover the whole engine up to make it look good that's for sure. They just don't make 700HP

skinny z

Nothing that a (really tall) tunnel ram wouldn't replicate. It's all about runner length vs RPM and CID. And maybe pay attention to plenum volume and distribution. The example above is a little ungainly and more could be done with less but you have to appreciate the effort.

One thing in that statement that stands out and that's the relative unattractiveness of the LS engine. Those coil packs never did much for me if only because I dig valve covers. The Gen 1 SBC has a rich history in that regard. The overly complex and convoluted accessory drive is another. Jeebus man! How many pullies, idlers and tensioners do you need! And the plastic ***** that covers everything is the OEM's admission that the engines are generally unattractive.
That said, and as I said earlier, I always kind of liked the TPI. Whether this references the OP original intent of the thread I can't say but it sure has attracted a lot of attention.

GCrites80s

^The new(ish) MSD intake and relocating the coils can make an LS a lot more attractive. Not cheap though. As far as accessories go you don't see that stuff in cars that actually come with LS, but they sure look busy in older cars that have more space under the hood!

skinny z

I've been involved in more than one coil relocation project for these engines. It takes some time and a few resources but the results at least will reveal the engine for what it is. The LSX454 in the Chevelle shows off the excellent GM valve covers but the coil pack "collective" that had to be created is a little awkward. I'll post up pictures when I can dig them up.

ploegi

I've been playing with cars for quite a while, and it has been so long since I have done anything with a carb, that wasn't on a tractor..... that I actually find fuel injection easier to work on.......

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

The quadrajet on my 77 is certainly less complicated than the big tubed tpi on my 92 when it comes to assembly and disassembly. Troubleshooting isn't any worse, just different tools and different way of troubleshooting when it comes down to it.

GCrites80s

Sounds like they MacGyvered it

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

I was in the same situation - take that TPI off and go carb!
I finally did, kinda


I like the carb,for the nitrous plate.
I used to have a dry nitrous kit, but it didn't go high enough for a TPI

Bustionironi

iTrader: (2)

When I was 18 and got my first TPI in an 86 IROC. A buddy of mine thought it was so cool and wanted to look under the hood. I didn’t know anything about TPI’s and neither did he. I popped the hood to check it out. I still remember pointing to the runners and saying “those are the headers”. Almost 20 years later and I still remember that, lol.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

First time my Dad popped the hood on my 91 and seen the TPI engine he said "What kind of Octopus Mother F&%$ker is this..". I laughed so hard.

Vinscully50

Now that is funny. I think my first reaction was how it looked like something out of Back to the Future or Blade Runner.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

The way a bunch of old people who hate EFI view EFI.

Tootie Pang

iTrader: (2)

Ron Howard's bro is always popping up in strange places.