Im wondering if anyone around town has the setup to do eproms? i would like to at least check mine to see whats going on with the car. A 350TPI shouldnt be running a 15.1 lol. Just want to see if im running rich or whatever else that little comp can tell you is wrong with her. Let me know if you can just check her out ill buy ya some beer for it or something

edit: i have a laptop also if someone has whatever the heck i need to hook up to the computer.

 

Have you done any data logging?

 

no sir i have not im a newb at this.

 

I'm relatively new at this as well, but heres the setup that I'm using...

I searched google for "aldl cable" and found several links to schematics as well as vendors selling complete cables that let me use the serial port on my laptop to talk to the ECM.

I use TunerPro as my software for datalogging, prom editing and chip burning.

I use the Flash N' Burn from www.moates.net for actually burning chips and I also have one of the memcal adapters to let me swap chips fairly easily.

I got the Innovate Motorsports LC-1 wideband o2 sensor and controller kit and spliced its output into my ECM using directions I found on the PROM board. Specifically, bringing the signal in on an unused pin then applying a hex edit to display the signal value in the aldl datastream.

Unfortunately, since Flagstaff doesn't have a track, I can't really make adjustments based on track data so I just look for any knock retard in my logs and check to make sure my AFR's under WOT are not reading too lean. Beyond that I just go by how hard the car pulls at WOT.

Feel free to PM or email me if you have any questions...

 

I've been burning chips for about 3 years on and off.

I use an AKM cable, Datamaster for logging, CATS RT for editing, Pocket programmer for burning, and the Moates Osterich for testing. I have one of his memcal adapters also.

I have a Zeitronix wideband spliced into my ECM and I'm using some code I put in myself to put it into the ALDL stream.

So basically, ChainHartMachin and I are doing the same stuff, except he's doing MAF and I'm doing SD. And neither of us are near you.

 

yeah i see that lol, and it sounds like you guys know what your doing cause it sounds like your speaking another language haha

 

Start off by getting an ALDL cable and logging what your sensors are reading, this should give you a decent idea where you're at. I'd recommend doing this for about a month, then diving into the tuning aspect, it's good to know what the numbers mean before changing them.

 

k sounds good, going to be a couple weeks before i can buy a cable just put some headers, and springs on her so little broke. anyone have a website that sells these things, or is there a store i should go to?

 

http://www.moates.net/

 

http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=50

Is this the cable your talking about? this looks like it hooks up to the OBD1 port and has a ethernet connection on it. Above you guys said something about a 9 pin serial port on the laptop so im not sure if this is the right one. The labtop i would use is my work one and it only has USB ports no 9 pin serial. Thanks for the help again guys

 

Here's one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALDL-...spagenameZWDVW

I haven't looked into the Moates one, but it looks like you need a separate interface thingy to use it. If you don't have a serial port you're going to need to mess with Serial to USB converters which is fairly hit-or-miss

 

Personally, I'd get a cable with a molded OBDI connector. How often are you going to want to stick pins in your connector under the dash?

I got mine from http://www.akmcables.com/ic.htm for $90. If I were you, and was seriously going to think about getting into PROM programming (which you should if you're going to do much to the engine), I'd get Craig's APU1 Autoprom kit. It has everything (except a ZIF socket adapter for the ECM) needed to do chips. After what I spent on my cable, my programmer, the chips, and the emulator... I wish this was available when I started.

 

I just leave the pins in the connector and routed the cable through my dash so it comes out when I open my ash tray. $90 was a little too pricey for me.

 

so whats the difference between the moates cable and the akm cable? I see one has the pin connectors and the moates one has the OBD1 looking connector on it. One is 90 bucks and the other is only 30 bucks. Well i guess just to get started i need to beable to just read what my computer is doing. So which one of these cables should i get to do this? Also since im a newb i dont know, will these values i get from doing this tell me if i have a bad sensor or something. For instance, if i have a bad O2 sensor will the values in the tables read lower/higher than a good sensor? Is there a chart or something i can use to cross reference my chart to. I bet ill find this out if i go to those boards so im going to go looking.

 

K did some hunting and correct me if im wrong. To do some datalogging, which i think is a good start for me, i can get the following.

Cable
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=50

connector
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=49

so these 2 pieces will be 80 bucks and will work for me since i need it to go into a USB. Maybe the cable from AKM has this connector on it already?

 

Those two items together will let you start datalogging with USB.

You'll have to start reading the stickies in the PROM forum to get to know what all the numbers mean. If you had a bad O2 sensor, the check engine light would usually come on. I'm sure if you take some data and put the file up on the post, one of us could help you interpret it to get you started.

 

Sounds good man. I get paid this friday so ill be ordering the cable soon. And ill keep looking for what software to use, ill prob just use the one you guys said since you are familiar with it.

 

Ok read something that got me thinking. it said that when datalogging you want to wait till the car is in closed loop so you dont get any eratic readings, and the cloosed loop is usually set in by the coolant temp sensor. Now i have replaced my thermo with a 160 temp one and the car never gets that hot. Is it bad to not go into closed loop? going to do a search on it now.

 

Stock AUJP setting to go into closed loop is 113 degrees, so you should be going into closed loop. If you stay in open loop you loose the compensation for weather, bad gas, etc. Some people run in open loop all the time, and I have a chip I play around with that does just that... so I can learn how to tune it better.

 

Ok thanks lol, i thought closed loop wouldnt happen till 220 or something like that. Thanks for clearing it up

 

Ok well i ordered the cable and a box to convert the cable to a USB for my labtop should be in the 25th. Once i find a good program to use ill post what i have.

 

Cool man, keep us updated!

 

K looks like im going to use datamaster for my program. Looks simple enough to use and easy to read. Going to keep up the searching on the program itself and best was to get the most info with it.

 

I recommend getting a program that lets you export your logs into MS Excel. TunerPro does that indirectly by letting you export each log into a *.csv (comma seperated value) file. The *.csv file can then be imported into an MS Excel spreadsheet. The data is much easier to analyze once it's in Excel. At least for me...

If you sample the data at the full speed of your ECM, you will have a LOT of data, even from a short drive.

 

Tunerpro eh, ok ill go try and find it and download it to take a look. Thanks for the idea.

 

Here's the link.... http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

 

thanks yeah i found it also. This one seems a little more complicated than datamaster. So i think ill do 2 runs once i get the cable in wensday. Ill do one run with the datamaster then one with TunerPro so i can have that data on a excel spreedsheet to interpret.

 

According to our handy guide in the DIY board there are 3 ways to setup burning chips in our cars.
1. Desolder the old chip solder in the new
2. make a adapter to burn the prom while in the memcal
3. buy the piggyback adapter that plugs into the existing memcal so you keep the limphome mode and such.

Im wondering what everyone else has choosen or wish they would of choosen to do? I was thinking option 3 since it sounds the easy and i dont have to mess with my existing chip at all besides plugging this thing into it.

 

I say #3. That is when I get into the chip burning era of car modding.

 

None, go with a prominator, no chips, no burning and reflashing bs. Leave your computer in the dash where it belongs!

 

Prominator eh, i think i saw a group purchase for one of those, but its like 250 bucks or something going to go check it out thanks for the tip

edit: ok it says for prominator Pro ed. im guessing i dont need the proffesional ed. ? Im going to goggle prominator to try and see whats up.

 

The pro version (275) lets you upload bins while the car is running, the regular version ($175) you have to shut the car off, upload the bin, then turn the car back on. If I would have done it again, I would have gone with the regular one since you can actually upload it while the car's running, but it goes into limp home mode for 1.3 seconds.

Tony

 

So does this say it comes with a program? Is this a easier to learn thing than using TunerPro or any other one thats been said? 175 bucks isnt bad for a module ill never have to remove again

 

Doesn't the Osterich do the same thing without going into limp home mode? Personally, I like the ability to change tables while someone else is driving. If my car went into limp home mode suddenly with the mods I have, it'd die right in the street.

 

Well i should be getting my dataloggin stuff in the mail today then hopfully i can get some stuff logged thursday if not this weekend.

But back to the new topic, im wanting whatever is the easiest way to do tuning on our cars. It sounds like this prominator is pretty easy since there isnt a chip that needs to be pulled out and programmed, its all done inside this little module. Please correct me if im wrong.
Are there other companies that have this same set up? Or is it more cost effective to go with the chip swaping? Doesnt sound that much more for the prominator.

 

The Osterich doesn't require chip swapping either (it does require the adapter module, though). You can plug it into the ECM, put the Osterich module under the dash, and just plug a USB cable in when you want to tune. The osterich holds the chip image in memory using batteries (which last an estimated 72 years according to Craig). It's a lot like the Prominator except it doesn't throw the computer into limp home mode when you do an update (like the Prominator apparently does.)

I rolled down the street clicking up and down on the tables and tuned while the car was moving, watching my wideband. It doesn't get any easier to make adjustments than that. The only hard part left is to know how to read the data you log (Osterich doesn't do logging), and know which parameters to change.

 

Ok got the cable and went and did a run. No i watched some of it but i guess im a newb and cant quite tell what all is happening. I used the datamaster for this 1st run. Anyone know how to export it to a excel file or how i can post up the results on here? I just went aroundt he block pretty much and tried to get a good RPM range in each gear. The knocks never got very high and the BLM at least at idol is a steady 128, it starts jumping around a WOT and when the EGR valve kicks on. guessin thats normal. Oh and when im coming to a stop, the short term one kinda goes funky. Ok i know i need to show what i mean, so any help with that would be $$ thanks

 

Looks like it's under file menu and export engine data. It exports a *.csv file (comma seperated value) which you can then import into MS Excel.

The knock retard field is of more interest than the knock counts field... IMHO.

Ideally, knock should be avoided. The factory programing is setup retard timing very rapidly when knock is detected. Once the knocking stops, the lost timing is added back in much slower. Also, it takes more spark retard to stop detonation (knock) than the excessive timing that caused it. For example; .5 degrees advance causes detonation, the computer might retard as much as 2 degrees to stop it. Not sure of the exact numbers, but the principle is the same.

 

ok i got the information to go into a excel file, but i dont know what the best way to attach the file. Take a screen shoot and post it or?

 

Better to post the whole excel file. Either directly on the board or post a link to it.

 

well since i have never done this before, anyone explain to me how i can make a link or put a attachment on here to my excel file? Is there a website that i can go to for free and have this file hosted there or something?

edit: im bringing it to gearhead garage saturday to see if we cant find the leak i have in the fuel line to the charcole canister. Hope its not by the tank

But if anyone lives somewhat near by me and understands what to look for and is willing to teach for beer or something let me know ill gladly drive over to ya with the lab top and eveything. Just a idea

Also i failed emissions on wensday. High on the hydros and the monoxide. And failed the pressure test to the canister like i said above. So i know somethings up with her just not sure what yet...

 

Theres a spot here for putting up attachments, but it looks like the only valid file extensions are image file extensions. You can email it to me if you want... I have a MAF setup myself, but I'll try to see what I can find in your log. Plus, I wouldn't mind having a real datalog from an SD car just for my own education.

 

If you want, you can email the datamaster file to me. Lemme know if you want the address.

 

Ok, keep in mind I'm not a master at this so don't take what I say as fact.

Your chip looks fine. Your IAC counts at idle are around 11 which is great (better than mine), so you're not dumping a bunch of fuel in at idle. Your O2 sensor takes a little time to warm up but after it does it seems to cross count at a decent rate. Your knock count rate is typical of a basically stock L98. My car did the same exact things when it was stock. Your long term fuel trims are all right around 128, which means the computer is happy with where your car is and it's right in the middle of the adjustment span. It looks like at one point you were holding the gears longer, and when you wound out to 4400+ RPM at part throttle it leaned up a bit, but not that bad at all. When you floor it your injector duty cycles are around 70%, so you have a little room to grow there.

The only issues I saw were that you have an intermittent communication problem with the laptop computer (I had the same thing when I installed my MSD ignition until I put the filter on it), and a heavy foot.

What gears does your car have? You did a 0 - 80 MPH shot and it looks like you only shifted twice, the second time well into the 70 MPH range. If you look at these graphs (my car's on top), you can see two distinct RPM (red) peaks on mine where I got into third around 60 MPH where on yours the second drop in RPM is way down near 75, but at 80 MPH we have the same RPM. It looks like you stomped it right after shifting into second, which if your TV cable is set correctly it should've kicked you back down into first. Just trying to learn from your data.

 

The second file looks fine, just like the first one. This O2 sensor looks to be a little more responsive than the first one, but your car was also hotter when you started this log.

Plus you lost a little traction going into second and had to lift the throttle. Fun!

 

HAHA nice readin man!! Yeah i dont know looking at the data the rich fuel button in the top right kept coming on and off ad idol. Ill have to go back to the 1st one and see what it says. I think im going to go to napa or somewhere to get a delco O2 sensor for the car. I think the one i have in it now was going to go into my S10 before i sold it. Found it in my tool box and thought i would give it a try. Yeah i tried the 2nd run at a hotter temp to see if it reacted a little different. Ill do a run tomarrow with the new O2 and see how it acts.

 

Most of those indicators in the upper right corner I ignore. I just pay attention to "Decel Lean" and "Idle Mode". The rest are usually wrong in my experience.

Rich is above 450 mV on O2 volts. If it's too rich the computer will start taking fuel away which you can see when the "L Term-C Counts" starts going below 128.

 

ok thanks for the info. To answer your questions from earlier i have the lowest gears these cars came with stock, i think its 273's. I know i went to look up the code one day and thats what i remember finding was 273's. I need some 373's

 

Ok well yesterday i passed emissions so now its time to find out why im running a 15.1 in the 1/4 lol. I have done some suspenions upgrades and header with full exhaust work. Just need to hold out till i can get some new rubber on the back then ill go back to the track and see what she runs. Synapsis, could you see any tuning aspects i could work on, timing, injection, air fuel ratio or whatever else i can tinker with if i get the programmer. Otherwise i will save up for the tires and she what she runs now and bring the labtop for some logging while going down the track.

Someone in a post awhile ago said something about the cam shaft getting worn out on the L98s, that would cause them to not perform like they should. Is there any way to see if this is true in the datamaster? Just a thought..

 

Got a timeslip??