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Old 10-23-2009, 12:54 PM   #1
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i help you with az emissions

iv worked at AZ emissions station M12 for a long time and i see lots of guys talking about air pumps...... in az you DO NOT need air pump to pass visual inspection on cars newer than 1980 and less than 8500lbs..... so all third gens do not need air pumps to pass VISUAL!!!! but it may harm the smog test(runnin of the car)
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:01 PM   #2
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Re: i help you with az emissions

If we are not required to have an air pump then why are we required to have air tubes? If you don't need a pump then whats the purpose of air tubes?
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:21 PM   #3
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Re: i help you with az emissions

you dont need the air tubes. the only thing that is visualy inspected is the evap can and its hoses
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:20 PM   #4
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Re: i help you with az emissions

i can agree with phoenixxx602 i had full headers with out airtubes and past visual.
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:22 PM   #5
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Catalitic converter and good numbers is all you need??? has this changed in the last 5 years or somethign because last time i checked i need air tubes, cat's smog pump and good numbers.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:52 PM   #6
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Re: i help you with az emissions

When they failed me for not having an air tube to my cat they said if the car came with it then is has to have it.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:44 PM   #7
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Re: i help you with az emissions

has not changed!! if u have problems passing let me know
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Old 10-26-2009, 12:46 AM   #8
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Re: i help you with az emissions

no offense to you or anything but i call BS. Ive been failed multiple times for my air tubes being jacked up on my old manifolds (had to keep retesting til i got the one lazy/dumb guy) and then also once for my air pump being loose.

Wether or not its required guys i dont think its much to ask to retain the factory setup, we've all done it for years now and might as well keep on doing it, besides they make provisions for us to squeeze HP out of our cars and still be legal on smog like my edelbrock air tube headers. Not only that but when you remove your air pump your jacking up your numbers on the sniffer.

Heres a simple tried and true way to pass, keep your stuff legal, wether or not its working who cares just fool the guys, go down with 1/2 a tank, pour rubbing alchohal in, (3 large bottles on 1/2 tank), hrive around a LITTLE then run the test and fuel up after. Ive done it every year and went from horrible numbers to under half the required numbers
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:42 AM   #9
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Re: i help you with az emissions

What i wonder is if you drive up to the emissions station and your vehicle does not have ait tubes or a place to place air tubes no vissable smog pump or any other smog related nonsense well they say anything? I would almost take my camaro in, it has not air tubes or smog pump or cats or anything else so i know i would instantly fail. Plus my numbers would be way off with my specs. 11 to 1 compresion 292 duration 570 left on a 388 carbed i would need a miracle.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:50 AM   #10
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Re: i help you with az emissions

its not BS if u go and thay dont pass you because air tubes or air pump LET ME KNOW BECAUSE THAY ARE CHEATING U SO THAY CAN GET BIGGER CHECKS! come 2 my station m12 16st north of braodway and i will show you the specs but u can do what u want im just try 2 hlp
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:32 AM   #11
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Re: i help you with az emissions

like i said, no offense, i never fail anymore and 16th st is just a little bit outta my way, i see youre trying to help but it would be easier if i could see this in writing in some sort of policy, then you can just throw it in their face rather than playing the he said she said game
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:43 AM   #12
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Re: i help you with az emissions

He may be passing cars, but once the DMV/state police (whoever is in charge out there) figures that out, his station will be fined if not suspended or shut down.
My wife was the SUPERVISOR at Texas Department of Public Safety that regulated all the inspection stations. Regardless of the state laws varying, NONE of them overide Federal Law. By FEDERAL LAW......ALL parts must remain.

Nothing says they can't be gutted or not do anything though!


He's probably just a 16yr old kid that just got his license on Monday!
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:16 PM   #13
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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He may be passing cars, but once the DMV/state police (whoever is in charge out there) figures that out, his station will be fined if not suspended or shut down.
My wife was the SUPERVISOR at Texas Department of Public Safety that regulated all the inspection stations. Regardless of the state laws varying, NONE of them overide Federal Law. By FEDERAL LAW......ALL parts must remain.

Nothing says they can't be gutted or not do anything though!


He's probably just a 16yr old kid that just got his license on Monday!
In Arizona you have to go to a state owned inspection station with state employees working there. Not a joe nobody gas and service statian with the ability to do emissions checks. SO if his station is passing people then it's a state problem at a state level.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:03 PM   #14
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Stephen, not trying to start a pissing contest. But states can over ride federal law. Some states did it when the feds said the national speed limit was 55 MPH. The feds dont like it and keep money from the states, but the states can make their own laws.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:04 PM   #15
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Re: i help you with az emissions

false. Federal law precedes any state law if theyre conflicting, the feds always have and always will have the trump card. emissions equipment was set STANDARD by CONGRESS, hence the forced reform of OBD1 to OBD2 which was mandated to come universal on every single vehicle to ensure tail pipe emissions could be monitored and kept low, headed by our favorite company; GM (same concept as our air pump, it may be obsolete but it was still effective for our cars) Wether or not your state says its cool congress and federal law both state that we have to have the equiptment.

Again, its not hard to put air pipes on a set of headers and keep your smog pump on, theres no reason to remove them, CA members can pull high HP out of a fully smog legal car so we obviously can too, this isnt the 60's anymore we cant get away with blowing carbon out all over the road thats why the standards are set and thats also why we uphold the laws but thats my 2 cents
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:10 PM   #16
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Re: i help you with az emissions

What he said...

Federal laws are the BASE states have to abide by. They can add more levels of regulation/tighter requirements, but CANNOT do less.

And laws like speed limits are a completely different matter.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:52 PM   #17
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Re: i help you with az emissions

I don't have to pass emission tests in the Phoenix area because I have a waiver for having proof of collector car insurance. Sure does take care of that problem.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:25 AM   #18
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Sure is nice to live out here in the boonies and not have to put up with sniffers, inspections, or any of that bs!!!!
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:29 PM   #19
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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I don't have to pass emission tests in the Phoenix area because I have a waiver for having proof of collector car insurance. Sure does take care of that problem.
Doesn't that require an increased level of insurance though? I'm not saying I know the ins and outs for sure, but I read something somewhere that led me to believe that in order to get the collector or historic car registration, you need to jump through some hoop through the insurance company first, and the insurance company in turn goes out and registers the car for you.

I had a hell of a time getting my car to pass emissions (the fella who swapped the engine out pretty much dropped in the engine, and NOTHING else - pretty much zero emissions gear whatseoever), so I did a minor amount of digging in regards to the collector/historic vehicle bit. Once I hit the wall of having to jack my insurance rates way up, I decided against it all. I'll see if I can dig up the link for where I read this, so it's not just all hearsay, but it's been the better part of a year now, and there's no telling if I can actually dig it up again.

Anyway, in regards to emissions, my girl was just *barely* scraping the tops of the maximum numbers, but she failed the visual as well for not having the evap system in place (I had no idea at the time). I wound up having to get the evap can and hoses added back in by my mechanic. It was a bit of a jury-rig if I recall, but it worked. I also didn't have any cats on the exhaust at all, it was just straight from the manifold to the side pipes with nothing in between. With the evap can put back in, it of course made my numbers a little worse, and after 6 more attempts at noodling with the carb and retesting, I finally decided that there was no chance of tuning it down underneath the limits. I picked up some cheap cats ($45 a piece), cut a section of the exhaust pipe out, slapped a cat on each side, and with that, she annihilated the emissions numbers.

I'm still a complete car noob, so I honestly don't even know if I'm missing more emissions systems or not, but after 7 total tests, the Greenfield and McKellips emissions station finally passed me after I added the cats.

I have to admit, I halfway expected confetti and balloons to fall from the ceiling once I finally passed. heh.

Last edited by Rawdge; 10-29-2009 at 12:31 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:18 PM   #20
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Re: i help you with az emissions

stephen, if you dont beleve me come down to my station and i can show you the big bad rule book of ADEQ
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:31 PM   #21
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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stephen, if you dont beleve me come down to my station and i can show you the big bad rule book of ADEQ
Sure....I'll hop in my car & drive from central Texas to there to look at a book.

Scan the pages & post them. No way a state can byass FEDERAL emissions LAWS. They can impose stricter regulations, but not lower them.

You are obviously misreading them. Or flat-out lieing.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:53 PM   #22
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Re: i help you with az emissions

iv worked for ADEQ for 3years i kno what im talking about.. im not here to "mess with texas" im just helping my az 3rdgeners by showing the truth.. i dont know why you care so much anyway if your from texas
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:59 PM   #23
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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iv worked for ADEQ for 3years i kno what im talking about.. im not here to "mess with texas" im just helping my az 3rdgeners by showing the truth.. i dont know why you care so much anyway if your from texas
I care because regardless where people are, they deserve the correct nformation.

I do find it funny that you keep singling out just me, when I'm not the only one who has posted that what you said, is not possible.

If your station can get out FEDERAL laws, more power to y'all.

I believe everyone should be able to modify their car howvere they want to, as long as the results under the certain guidelines. If they can get clean emissions without even a cat, who cares if it is missing? If the goal is clean air, then that is all that should matter, right?
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:18 PM   #24
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Re: i help you with az emissions

lol im not just talking to you your just the only one talking back! if you think my info is wrong than thats fine. im just letting EVRYBODY know what the ADEQ book says. is the state breaking fed laws?? that i do not know!!
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:20 PM   #25
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Re: i help you with az emissions

but what if your like me and could give a crap less about clean air and just want to burn rubber without the F ing government breathing down your neck and taking your money every time you turn around I live in Oregon where it rains or is windy often enough to clean the air and still we have to smog our cars this is all just the hippy californians fault for being dumb enough to settle in the L.A basin you can do what you want to your car but your going to pay out the $ss to get it to pass!!!
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:16 PM   #26
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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I believe everyone should be able to modify their car howvere they want to, as long as the results under the certain guidelines. If they can get clean emissions without even a cat, who cares if it is missing? If the goal is clean air, then that is all that should matter, right?
.

Last edited by Beater79TA; 10-30-2009 at 01:18 PM. Reason: double post
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:17 PM   #27
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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I believe everyone should be able to modify their car howvere they want to, as long as the results under the certain guidelines. If they can get clean emissions without even a cat, who cares if it is missing? If the goal is clean air, then that is all that should matter, right?
And how we all wish this was the way it worked.

Even though all of mine pass, I'm tempted to try and mess with the system next time I have to take one through and hook up a couple of small air pumps or electric smog pumps to a line entering the exhaust near the muffler and just pump fresh air into the system a couple feet in front of their tester. Just to see what it does to the numbers and to see if they even notice.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:41 PM   #28
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Betcha one of them little air pumps for air ride suspension would do the job!!!!!!
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:04 AM   #29
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
What he said...

Federal laws are the BASE states have to abide by. They can add more levels of regulation/tighter requirements, but CANNOT do less.

And laws like speed limits are a completely different matter.
Then how come none of my vehicles regardless of age are required to be tested???
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Old 10-31-2009, 12:56 PM   #30
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Best way in my opinion: If you want to modify an engine for performance, have a completely stock engine that will pass emissions on the side. Do the swap, pass emissions (with all the original equipment), get the 2 year tag and know that you have to do the engine swap every 2 years. May be a pain in the ***, but think of the 2 years you won't have to worry about emissions and the fun you can have with a modified engine between checks. Most may think it's too much work, but can save a headache from beauracrats. You can get an engine from pick-a-part on half off day for $85 with a core (need just a block if that's all you have).
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Old 10-31-2009, 03:51 PM   #31
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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Then how come none of my vehicles regardless of age are required to be tested???
There are federal laws for maximum level of emissions output when the vehicle is manufactured. Federal law also states that emissions equipment can't be modified or removed.

State laws are what require periodic testing afterwards.
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:21 PM   #32
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Re: i help you with az emissions

So if my state does not require testing, and the feds don't do anything about it, then state law wins over federal law?
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:05 AM   #33
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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So if my state does not require testing, and the feds don't do anything about it, then state law wins over federal law?
Not quite. Federal law still applies but they left it to the states to enforce. You could still be cited and fined if someone with the correct authority notices your car and decides to write it up as a Clean Air Act violation. The Fed mandated the equipment and specified fines for it but didn't set up a national authority to check the equipment. That was left to the states and many decided not to do it at all or to only do it for cars within certain age ranges.

Just be aware that if you have removed all of the equipment and move to a state that does require testing, you'll have to put it all back on and make the car legal in order to get tags.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:41 PM   #34
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Re: i help you with az emissions

I live in Pa and if your car was made before it's either 1980 or late 70's you need no emissions also if you live in the northern parts of Pa there is no emissions last time I was up there and if you drive under 5000 miles a year regardless of year or make of car , Having said that they do a visiual inspection which is a joke cause you can gut the cat and the pump and block the tubes and they would not know . Me I'm keeping it all there just to save a headache later. phenioxxx602 you gotta watch starting emissions post it always starts a war.
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Old 11-03-2009, 04:28 PM   #35
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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Doesn't that require an increased level of insurance though? I'm not saying I know the ins and outs for sure, but I read something somewhere that led me to believe that in order to get the collector or historic car registration, you need to jump through some hoop through the insurance company first, and the insurance company in turn goes out and registers the car for you.

I had a hell of a time getting my car to pass emissions (the fella who swapped the engine out pretty much dropped in the engine, and NOTHING else - pretty much zero emissions gear whatseoever), so I did a minor amount of digging in regards to the collector/historic vehicle bit. Once I hit the wall of having to jack my insurance rates way up, I decided against it all. I'll see if I can dig up the link for where I read this, so it's not just all hearsay, but it's been the better part of a year now, and there's no telling if I can actually dig it up again.

Anyway, in regards to emissions, my girl was just *barely* scraping the tops of the maximum numbers, but she failed the visual as well for not having the evap system in place (I had no idea at the time). I wound up having to get the evap can and hoses added back in by my mechanic. It was a bit of a jury-rig if I recall, but it worked. I also didn't have any cats on the exhaust at all, it was just straight from the manifold to the side pipes with nothing in between. With the evap can put back in, it of course made my numbers a little worse, and after 6 more attempts at noodling with the carb and retesting, I finally decided that there was no chance of tuning it down underneath the limits. I picked up some cheap cats ($45 a piece), cut a section of the exhaust pipe out, slapped a cat on each side, and with that, she annihilated the emissions numbers.

I'm still a complete car noob, so I honestly don't even know if I'm missing more emissions systems or not, but after 7 total tests, the Greenfield and McKellips emissions station finally passed me after I added the cats.

I have to admit, I halfway expected confetti and balloons to fall from the ceiling once I finally passed. heh.
Rally Insurance Group 1-800-801-1823 www.rallyinsurance.com

I called Rally to send me proof of my insurance and a special code for Az. registration, which they did. Waited in line at Az. Driver License office for 10 minutes, went to the service window, gave them the paperwork, paid a small fee, that's it. No more emissions hassles, ever! Easy.

FYI: My Insurance premium is about $175.00 a year.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:26 AM   #36
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Re: i help you with az emissions

i need to go do my emissions. more than likely ima get this done tommorow.
if not ill do it wendsay..see u there phoenixxxx602
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:36 PM   #37
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Re: i help you with az emissions

ill keep an eye out for you
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:48 PM   #38
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Alright man I shud be there wendsay morning around 10-11 ish look out for a white camaro lol
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:36 PM   #39
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Re: i help you with az emissions

thats t00 erly for me but let me know how it go
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:26 AM   #40
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Re: i help you with az emissions

our state does require testing however if you dont live in the specified zones youre fine, the bigger the cities get the larger the zone will reach, also if for some reason you get the hair brained idea to register your car up in like snowflake or anywhere that doesnt require it when you dont live there, theyll catch you and slap you with some hefty fines, my friend got hit with that when he registered his omega up north while living in fountain hills.

Fact of the matter is you need to pass visual, and you need to have a clean tail pipe. its not a big thing to ask every mod CAN be done while following guidelines, its a question of wether or not you want to be lazy and not take the extra step. As for this M12 kid, have fun passing people but im telling you now youre wrong. The "do whatever you want but have a clean emission" theory is cool, i get that, but its not the reality and just to throw it out there, california is that way because they never bothered to fix their issues, now theyre paying for it and the beauracrats passed the zero emission law to make it look like they can reverse it. Nothing more nothing less, personally i dont want the valley turning out the same way so ill keep my cats and smog equipment.

Last edited by BluFBdy; 11-13-2009 at 03:54 AM.
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:51 PM   #41
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluFBdy View Post
our state does require testing however if you dont live in the specified zones youre fine, the bigger the cities get the larger the zone will reach, also if for some reason you get the hair brained idea to register your car up in like snowflake or anywhere that doesnt require it when you dont live there, theyll catch you and slap you with some hefty fines, my friend got hit with that when he registered his omega up north while living in fountain hills.

Fact of the matter is you need to pass visual, and you need to have a clean tail pipe. its not a big thing to ask every mod CAN be done while following guidelines, its a question of wether or not you want to be lazy and not take the extra step. As for this M12 kid, have fun passing people but im telling you now youre wrong. The "do whatever you want but have a clean emission" theory is cool, i get that, but its not the reality and just to throw it out there, california is that way because they never bothered to fix their issues, now theyre paying for it and the beauracrats passed the zero emission law to make it look like they can reverse it. Nothing more nothing less, personally i dont want the valley turning out the same way so ill keep my cats and smog equipment.
realy???
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:57 PM   #42
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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Originally Posted by BluFBdy View Post
our state does require testing however if you dont live in the specified zones youre fine, the bigger the cities get the larger the zone will reach, also if for some reason you get the hair brained idea to register your car up in like snowflake or anywhere that doesnt require it when you dont live there, theyll catch you and slap you with some hefty fines, my friend got hit with that when he registered his omega up north while living in fountain hills.

Fact of the matter is you need to pass visual, and you need to have a clean tail pipe. its not a big thing to ask every mod CAN be done while following guidelines, its a question of wether or not you want to be lazy and not take the extra step. As for this M12 kid, have fun passing people but im telling you now youre wrong. The "do whatever you want but have a clean emission" theory is cool, i get that, but its not the reality and just to throw it out there, california is that way because they never bothered to fix their issues, now theyre paying for it and the beauracrats passed the zero emission law to make it look like they can reverse it. Nothing more nothing less, personally i dont want the valley turning out the same way so ill keep my cats and smog equipment.
i love how you keep calling me a kid even tho your 19... how bout you come down and see the m12 kid and my ADEQ book
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:15 AM   #43
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Re: i help you with az emissions

phoenixxx602, man, nothing goes further than proof. I'm not disputing what youíre saying cause I donít have a copy of the ADEQ book in front of me. If you can scan that page or pages and post them up, you'd shut a lot peopleís mouths and at the same time prove your point. I mean in all honesty, until that happens, youíre just going to keep defending yourself and eventually this thread will get locked and the point you were trying to make will be worthless.

Don't take this as I'm attacking you but as I'm trying to help you out in proving the validity of your point.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:39 AM   #44
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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phoenixxx602, man, nothing goes further than proof. I'm not disputing what youíre saying cause I donít have a copy of the ADEQ book in front of me. If you can scan that page or pages and post them up, you'd shut a lot peopleís mouths and at the same time prove your point. I mean in all honesty, until that happens, youíre just going to keep defending yourself and eventually this thread will get locked and the point you were trying to make will be worthless.

Don't take this as I'm attacking you but as I'm trying to help you out in proving the validity of your point.
i know your sooooooo right but there is no way thay are gona let me just take the book home...... so ima just do what i do and keep my car lookin sexy with no air tubes
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:47 AM   #45
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Re: i help you with az emissions

When I can't scan things, I take good, close up pics. Not quie the same as a scan, but gets the point across & shows the item.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:28 PM   #46
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Re: i help you with az emissions

Take a picture of it.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:22 PM   #47
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Re: i help you with az emissions

fine kid, man whatever...i dont care. The ADEQ board didnt find the same thing you did, i called them up to call out your bs and they said verbatum; " all factory equiptment must be retained for the vehicles year regardless of wether or not its obsolete."

have fun "man"
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:45 PM   #48
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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iv worked at AZ emissions station M12 for a long time and i see lots of guys talking about air pumps...... in az you DO NOT need air pump to pass visual inspection on cars newer than 1980 and less than 8500lbs..... so all third gens do not need air pumps to pass VISUAL!!!! but it may harm the smog test(runnin of the car)

can you please help me i currently reside in tempe az and i own a 96 camaro rs and i recently changed the egr valve and reset the pcm with a device can you tell me how long i would have to drive in order to pass i read somewhere it has to collect data for a madder of time while driving in order to pass the test and will a check engine light automatically fail me.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:51 PM   #49
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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can you please help me i currently reside in tempe az and i own a 96 camaro rs and i recently changed the egr valve and reset the pcm with a device can you tell me how long i would have to drive in order to pass i read somewhere it has to collect data for a madder of time while driving in order to pass the test and will a check engine light automatically fail me.
The last time I reset an OBD-II vehicle after an evaporative system part replacement, I drove just over 100 miles (because I wanted to and because I didn't want to deal with going to test twice.) It passed fine then. It's not a set distance; it's a number of factors affecting whether the PCM is "ready." But 100mi. should do it for sure.

As far as helping you, the original poster of this thread doesn't understand emissions laws, so good luck with that.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:34 PM   #50
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Re: i help you with az emissions

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can you please help me i currently reside in tempe az and i own a 96 camaro rs and i recently changed the egr valve and reset the pcm with a device can you tell me how long i would have to drive in order to pass i read somewhere it has to collect data for a madder of time while driving in order to pass the test and will a check engine light automatically fail me.
If you needs tags with no emissions pm me
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