Well, Ronald Regan was a actor, Jesse Ventura was a actor (TV wresling is a act). Actually politicions are all actors. I thought Arnold would be like Jesse but obviously he isnt.

Reinstate the draft. I think ALL citizens should have to perform 2 years of service like most of the rest of the world. And there are military jobs for REAL conciences (sp) objectors.

 

I never thought I'd say this, but.... I agree with you : )

 

Just like the rest of the world? Like China and N. Korea?
Making everyone serve in the military is rediculous.
Being in the military is not for everyone. I went to college for 4 years. I am not about to have some drill seargent get in my face and tell me how to live my life like some puppet.

I thought part of being an American was having freedom, not being forced to do something you dont want.

 

Try Europen Countries, ie Germany, France, Austria to name a few.
Or how about Switzerland, where every Swiss citizen is a member of the Swiss military and has a military weapon amd ammo in their house.

Freedom isn't free, it must be bought and paid for. If everyone had your attitude you would not have been able to go to college unless your parents were of the Countrie's elite, you would be farming a **** paddy.

Isn't it nice someone else is paying/paid for your chance to go to college.

 

Yes it was nice to have my parents pay for my college, both of whom work. And i will pay for my childrens college also, but what does that have to do with mandatory service?
If you read my post i say being in the military is not for everyone, for people who cant afford or are not smart enough to go to college, its a good option. If some stranger yells in my face, they are getting slapped. So am i a good canidate for being in the military?
You are supposedly for personal freedoms, like allowing people to drive what cars they want and owning weapons, but you are also for the government taking away someones freedom for 2 years? What logic is that? You are also for lower taxes, but how are we going to pay for the huge amount of new servicemen? All those service men require room and board, food, medical attention, weapons, transportation etc.

 

There are also actors and athletes who are/were in the Senate, House, and as mentioned Reagan was President. Doesnt make a person unqualified, they can be good or bad just like anyone else.

 

At least those people are giving something of themselves instead of all those !@#$holes collecting welfare for absolutely nothing.

 

Obviously you didn't let the college professors invade your mind.

If we did not have our military we would not have our freedoms.

Your freedom to go to college was paid for by those in the military not your parents and not by some college grad who is too "educated" to pay for the freedoms they enjoy by serving in the military, as a combatant or non combatant.

Every person in a US military uniform is protecting the freedoms you enjoy in this Country. If everyone had your attitude you would be living in some third world toilet with a dictator eating steak and you eating garbage.

If everyone served two years of military/government service our taxes would probably decrease as a lot of the government jobs could be filled by non combatant military persons, ie hospital aides, clerks, data entry, etc. A lot of our military work is perfomed by civilians as there are not enough military personal to do all the work.

 

Well said injdinjn

 

Yeah your right...
but thats not my point. Of course its better that people serve in the military than collect welfare, who's arguing that? My point is that serving in the military is not for everyone. You went to college to become a civil engineer, correct? Would you have been happier wasting away your talents in the military for 2 years?

 

What is that supposed to mean exactly? I didnt let those college professors invade my mind? Do you know what they taught me? I was an aerospace engineering major, so political discussion was not a topic by my professors, so please dont think you know more about my college experience than you do.

I am not anti-military so dont try to spin it that way. I am well aware of the service perform for all of us. I am just saying that being in the military is not for me, and its not for a lot of people out there.
It is hypocritical to be for freedom and to take it away at the same time. There is plenty of people who are perfectly suited for the military and i applaud them and thank them. I am not one of those people.

 

I wanted Tom McClintock, Not Aronld.

 

Though we are spinning or spiraling way off the topic here, I also agree with the mandatory service of 2 years, and honestly the military is not for me either. I think that the mandatory service for both genders mind you would help to open everyone's eyes and to help build solid resolves for several issues - regardless of political affiliation - if that makes any sense. I have read about the way the Swiss have instituted their mandatory service and it very interesting - let's just say that keeping a country that centrally located in Europe neutral for so long takes quite a bit more than just nice chocolate and clocks

P.S. When my parents were growing up in Hungary they also had mandatory Military Service (2 years as well, only for men) though the country was Socialist at the time, My Father didn't mind the service - actually when he came to the United States he had hoped to join the Military here but they wouldn't take him because he hadn't been here long enough at that time

 

I would say it is hypocritical to take the freedom you have and then make a statement like

If you can't fathom any other reasons to go into the military then you still have a lot of learning to do
Of course thinking that being in the military takes your freedom away says alot also

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by flrtin1
I would say it is hypocritical to take the freedom you have and then make a statement like
Why is that? Do you know what hypocritical means? It means to say one thing and doing another, so how does that apply?



If you can't fathom any other reasons to go into the military then you still have a lot of learning to do

I didnt say those were the only reasons.

Of course thinking that being in the military takes your freedom away says alot also

What do you call taking away someone's right to choose their own path? What does that say?

 

The whole point is that you don't understand and at your age you probably never will

Edit: and I truly hope that the day never comes when you should really loose your freedom and then understand

 

I dont understand you people. It is possible to have 3 thoughts in your head at the same time.

1) I am supportive of our military, they do a job that is hard, and i am appreciative.
2) I do not want to do that job.
3)Making me do a job I do not want to do is an infringement upon my rights.

There...

 

What is it that i dont understand, and that is blatantly obvious to you?
Dont be condescending.
And the government taking away 2 years of your life to do something you dont want to do is taking away your freedom. In fact losing the right to do something is the definition of losing your freedom.

 

How true

If that day comes I hope it is after I am dead and gone.


Maybe if he had been in NYC on 9/11 he "might" get it.
Naw probably not.

 

So what i should understand is that after 9/11, everyone should all follow the same path. We should all do the same thing. Everyone should try to fit in to your perfect mold. There should be no individuality. No one should speak out against authority.
We should all have your point of view because it is the correct one. We should all be protestant, white males age 35 and up. And we should all join the service.

Is that it? Is that the point? The key to MY happiness is to do what YOU think is right?

 

If you review the posts I think you will find that your opinion is in the minority (1). Where the others agree with me.
Nuf said I now retire from this discussion.

 

lets make it two i dont agree with manditory military either i think thats why we live in the U.S.A. because we have a choice to do what we want ...thats part of freedom

i understand that military is important and it is needed but there are thousands upon thousands of young men and women that volunteer every year and i see no reason why my kids should be made to go to the military even if they dont want to...

if i wanted this i would move to a third world country and let them tell me what i have to do every day of my life.......

 

Well firstly, you brought up wasting money so I thought I'd just bring up prime example #1 that the Democrats will defend until the death and meanwhile remove everyone from the military they possibly can because its wasteful spending according to them. Hello Pot? This is Kettle!

Had I been asked to serve, I would have. There are way too many people that sacrificed themselves to give me the freedoms and opportunities I have today from the Revolutionary war to the constant efforts made even today and for anyone to ignore the fact that someone died to give you what you have, to me, is disrespectful to everyone who fought for what I'm allowed to do. I can also understand the self respect and honor that I would get by trying to give those after me the same great things I've had. I guess its people that dont really know what it is like outside of this country that never will understand. I'd suggest a trip to a nice socialist country like Russia, go there and act like you do here and see what happens. The United States didnt just happen all by itself, people fought to create it. People have also fought to defend it, in case your history is rusty. I'm 100% positive that in the future this will continue to happen, the world is not the touchy-feely place that some nimrods seem to think it is. Just because we have it good here doesn't mean that its not totally screwed in wonderful places like Africa. If the world was so great, so free, and so safe... how can places like that exist? And dont go misconstruing my thoughts into a defense for the current war in Iraq either. If you decide to go there you totally missed my point and all I will do is ask you to reread what I said.

 

Is that all there is to be concerned with, is how happy you are? What about the millions of other people in this country, screw them because it makes you unhappy?

Here's something you get when you live in a place unlike here. You dont get to protest. You dont get to speak out. You dont have a choice, John Kerry does not exist. Its Bush or Bush. There is not a second, third, or fourth candidate. There is no vote. The person in charge is in charge until they step down (haha, yea right), they die, or someone kills them. No 4 years down the road making a different choice. They make the rules, you follow them. Fortunately for you, me, and everyone else here... we can think different. Its allowed. There are times when in return, we are asked to make a sacrifice for this... and some people are totally appalled at it. How dare you!

Maybe you should start your own dictatorship and be in charge, because everything else someone asks is too good for you to do.

In case you missed it:
I dont agree with a mandatory draft, unless its needed. If it is, so be it. Stop whining about it. There are better things to cry about like spilled milk.
9/11 is supposed to be a wake up call. Too many people think that nobody is out to get us, we dont need to defend ourselves, and nothing bad will ever happen. Fact is, we let our guard down and 9/11 was the result. Right now we're in a period of backlash, just like you are doing right now because you dont like what you heard. Soon enough, things will calm down but chopping our hand off and crawling back into the same hole isnt a good idea, we need to go back to standing up and looking out for ourselves and not turn the other way and think there's nothing funny going on behind us. It doesnt require offense, but to ignore the past and not stand on guard tells me the intelligence of the person suggesting to do so. Its somewhere in the single digit range.

 

First of all this is in a message board of a camaro club, so i hardly think this is a fair cross-section of american thought.
Second thank you for making my point. Because you are in the majority, that makes you correct.

 

You do know that you dont have to be asked to serve in this country? You can volunteer all on your own. You could have practiced what you are currently preaching, why didnt you?

You brought up socialist russia. You know what a sure-fire way you can tell you are in a socialist society? By manadatory military service.

 

Still, how is this great patriotic rhetoric making your point? From what I can tell, we agree. What makes america great is our freedom to choose our own occupation. If we didnt get to choose, that would make us a communist state. Instead of us becoming engineers, the government would choose our occupation.
There is also a choice we have to serve in the military. I didnt choose that, and neither did you. So who's calling the kettle black now?

 

FYI -

The proposal pending to reinstate the draft is floating around the Senate, but no one expects it to pass.

For anyone who cares, the authors are Charles Rangle (Democrat - New York), and other Democrats.

I'm not giving an opinon, I am just passing it along because there is a rumor going around via email that the it is something Bush is asking for. Apparently he opposes it, and favors incentives for those who enlist. For those who care...

Maybe we need a thirdgen political thread?

 

Ken lets get something nice and sparkling clear here. I was of age for the draft in the 60's. I was in College and working toward a Degree. There is absolutly no ****ing way I wanted to stop what I was doing,nor was going into the Military for me. And dont get me wrong I agree the Military is not for everyone, and as I said before it wasn't for me.But I did what I was required to do and I am proud of the time I served.I may have hated every minute of it,but as I see myself today the many many things I learned from the time I spent have made me a much better person.
Now this my not matter to you and thats ok its your right,but you seriously disrespect eveyone that ever served with your attitude.And what disappoints me the most is the fact that the kids that spit on me in my uniform the day I came home from Vietnam,did so because the didn't know any better.
You claim to have an education and yet you disrespect me for my service because the Military is not for you. I truly hope that at some point in your life you come to realize that sometimes things have to be done because at the time its the right thing to do .... even if its not for you.
And before you decide to blow me off with the "attitude". I work in the Aerospace Industry. I have been an Aviation Maintenace Technician (formerly known as an A&P) for over thirty years.Coincidentaly a trade I learned in the Air Force. That said I wish you the best in what ever you do.

 

i dont see the draft comming back again there are too many young men and women that volunteer every day to worry about that right now ..

I am very appreciative to every person that chooses to fight for our country or ever has ......

I think that every one that was drafted to go to veitnam was wronged when they came home my uncle and many many others in my family alone went and came home to no praise at all ......

 

such a love fest over here and at SC3G with everyone diametrically opposed to Cali92RS/RaiderKen

I say you all have a Roshamboe contest to see settle the issues.

 

Where is this venom coming from...
I am not disrespecting anyone. How is my statement about a mandatory draft disrespect? I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I do appreciate your service to this country, but that doesnt give you or the government the right to tell me how to live my life.
I would never spit on any vet. That is dead wrong. But you are disrespecting me by comparing me to those people.

 

Dude, all I am saying is that the government should let people live their lives. Just like the smog laws, which everyone is opposed to.

 

Please do me this favor everyone.....
CAREFULLY re-read my posts before you accuse me of disrespect.
You will find after further inspection that i never once state that people should not join the military, that i am against the military, that we should roll-over and let the terrorist win.
THis is what i am saying, and all i am saying...
That less government interference uupon our lives is a good thing, which includes unfair smog laws, the right to own a 50 cal rifile, and mandatory military service. No disrespect given nor solicited anywherer in any of my replys.

 

You just dont get it. Never mind I thought you might understand.Perhaps someday you will. I'm done here.Dont bother with the DHL in your avatar, I was wrong to ask even as a joke.

 

I step away from the computer for a few hours and miss all the fun!

I'm proud of everyone who has served our country, I think almost everyone is. I repect that some people choose not to, even if I disagree with that decision. I wish I had decided to join the Armed Services for a couple of years when I was younger (I'm 34 now), I think the disclipline would have served me well.

While I'm not ready to force my opinions on anyone, I will say that I think some kind of duty requirement for young people, however short, would probably be good for them and help to reduce crime and unemployment. It might (I don't know for a fact) lessen these rates because of reduced idle time, improved teamwork skills, self esteem from a job well done, career training, and more.

That having been said, let's hope that enough people volunteer and enlist, and that we don't have a draft for a very long time, if ever.

Again, just tossing out my opinion, I'm not critizing anyone else's decision, especially since as I never served.

(my dad was a 1st Lieutenant in the 82nd Airborne in Vietnam in the late 60's, and I'm very proud of him!)

 

I bet serving in the military would help some people with discipline. It teaches them respect for authority. And it teaches you a trade, But a lot of people dont need to be taught those traits. So if people already have those qualities, why force them to join?
Like ive been saying all along, joining the military is a noble thing, but I didnt, and I dont think people should be punished if they dont.

 

I hope your dad made it thru his tour of duty ok. As I remember it the life expectency of a 1st Lt in Nam was 30 seconds.

 

Cali92RS,

Like I said, I just thought it might be a good idea. I'm not really sure it's right for everyone. Maybe those enrolled in college, etc. could get a wavier. It was just half a thought, I guess.

I don't really want to MAKE people do it, I guess I just like the idea, that's all.

injdinjn,

What does you screen name stand for? I haven't been able to figure it out. . Don't embarass me by pointing out something really obvious that I missed!

Yeah, my Dad survived two tours, very lucky from what he tells me. Although he doesn't talk about it much. He was fortunate enough to have a little 8mm (?) movie camera, so there is some cool footage of my Dad, now a Bank of America Vice President, attorney admitted to practice in three states, with a masters in tax law, smoking (not cigarettes) and drink Jack Daniels in a t-shirt. I guess you'd have to know my formal, republican father to see the humor in that... if he saw this is would kill me!

He beat the odds, thanks for asking, though...

 

Huh? I'm sorry, but you've totally lost me. Are you saying because I didnt volunteer for the military, that I am against the military drafting people? How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Think first Ken, think. I filled out my selective service form just like probably everyone else did, and as I said... now read this because this is what I am talking about, ok... I would have served had they asked me. Get it? You do know there has been a draft in place in the past, right? You do know thats why they require that form, right? This has nothing to do with volunteering, it has to do with doing what is asked of me if there is a need for it. Is that simple enough for you to understand or do I have to explain the same thing in 15 different ways?

 

This just proves my point that you need to visit someplace outside the US.

The difference between me and you is that if you were asked to serve, you'd refuse. Thats what you said. And there were times, and will be times that people are asked to do that and in that case I would be one of the people who would have faced the music instead of crying like a 2 year old. Thats what I said. So I can call the kettle as black as I want to, because I'm not the one posting here saying that there's no way in hell I'd serve in the military no matter what, you are.

 

No, explain it to me 15 more times. I bet youre so gifted, you can actually make 15 more posts on this subject and manage not to say anything important on any of them (just like your previous 15 posts).
Please write another twenty paragraph soliloquy where you dont make a single point. Everyone loves reading those.

 

Please quote me where i said i would refuse IF there was a draft.

Your father said he thinks there should be MANDATORY military service. Thats where we had a difference of opinion.
If there was a draft and i was selected, i would go, so dont call me a "crying 2 year old". Like your so damn tough. Please dont fool yourself, John Wayne.

There is a difference between being drafted and mandatory military service, if you can wrap your head around that. I am opposed to the latter, but never once stated i wouldnt serve if i was drafted.

 

90210



injdinjn = fuel injected Pontiac injected indian

Since your dad is a Lawyer (sorry about that) you might enjoy this.
My license plate was limited to 7 letters INJDIJN
The DMV requires a explaniation so off the top of my head
"in judicial decsions I judge none."

BTW Dr Daniels magic elixar is a great remedy for most everything. Sore throat, snake bite, lost election, spark knock........

 

Well if thats true, then say so first. Dont say something like this:
"2) I do not want to do that job.
3)Making me do a job I do not want to do is an infringement upon my rights."

So which is it? You'd serve, but you dont want to do it and its a violation of your rights? If its a violation of your rights, I can only assume you think
1. Its wrong.
2. You'd fight it along with the ACLU at your side.

I'm not the one not making a point, you are.

 

1. Yes I would serve if there was a draft and i were drafted.
2. Yes I think its wrong to employ mandatory military service (which is not a draft. A draft is when they select your name at random WHEN NEEDED for a war. Mandatory Military service is when the government forces EVERYONE to serve, EVEN IF THERE IS NO WAR).

I know you understand the difference the two statements, and you also know that there is no conflicts in those two statements.

 

i thought this was about arnold and his signing of emmisions laws ???

not the military draft board

its getting too intense in here eveybody needs to go get a bottle of beer or glass of whiskey or what ever and chill out ...LOL

 

But there is conflict when you say if its a job you dont want to do, and that you dont want to do it (and you said you dont), that its a violation of your rights and then later say you'd do the job if they asked. And you wonder why I questioned you on it. Now you know.

 

This is a cake walk, you should visit the John Kerry v George Bush on the SC3g.org board.

There are a lot of people with strong opinions on this board. Unfortunately, on here, i am in the minority. Therefore, I like to offer up a different point of view, but some people dont like that.

 

No, you misunderstood me.
The violation doesnt occur in doing a job you dont like. Hell 90% of people dont like what they do.
The violation occurs when you are FORCED to by an outside entity WHEN NOT NECESSARY(ie the governement forcing you when not in a time of war).