Looks like I'll be postponing my LS3 build for a year or so after seeing GM's new release of the Gen V Direct injection 6.2 making 450+HP and 450+Tq from the factory. I also read they'll be making an Gen V L98 to replace diesel engines



Preliminary 50+ more hp and tq over the LS3, similar to a stroker LS3 Can you say 500rwhp with bolt-ons?


Fancy oil squitters:


Can we get a 7-speed trans on the side?

 

Your nuts if you think it will make 500rwhp with just bolt ons.

 

That's what I said when there was claims of the Coyote 5.0 making 440rwhp with "just bolts-ons." It's all speculation at this point but it's going to be one hell of an engine.

 

a cam just requires some bolts turned :devil:

thats motor's gonna be a bad bitch

 

The numbers are low for insurance purposes. Just like car manufacturers do when the dyno numbers come out.

 

I just wonder why are they calling the new vette motor an LT-1 again.

 

* The quickest standard Corvette ever, with estimated 0-60 performance of less than four seconds

* The most fuel-efficient Corvette ever, exceeding the 2013 EPA-estimated 26 miles per gallon on the highway.




"the LT1 has been optimized to produce a broader power band. Below 4,000 rpm, the torque of the Corvette LT1 is comparable to that of the legendary, 7.0L LS7 out of the current Corvette Z06. The LT1 is a sweetheart of a power plant and drivers will feel its tremendous torque and power at every notch on the tachometer."





Correct. Also, GM's factory tune is very conservative.
I can see full bolt-ons and tuned with E85 fuel(11.5 compression) making close to 500rwhp

GM has a theme of recycling engine names/codes (LS6, COPO, LT1, ZL1 etc)

"The new LT1 is the third engine in the Corvette's history to be so-named, with previous versions introduced in 1970 (Gen 1) and 1992 (Gen 2). All iterations of the LT1 - and all Small Block engines - have shared a compact design philosophy that fosters greater packaging flexibility in sleek vehicles such as the Corvette."

Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/hot...#ixzz2AM7G1Sbr

 

spark plug angle and depth have been revised. and look at the direct injection!!

 

I'm just happy GM fixed the opti spark on this one.

 

Any projections of cost and time of availability?

 

It will make far more than 500rwhp with bolt ons... It might make that just with a tune. LS3 does it with a cam and a tune for the most part. Remember GM has to bring it in under certain emission standards, especially out here in California. They also have to warranty the thing, so building an all out race motor and then detuning the heck out of it gives you all kinds of future upgrade options. Like a "hot cam" type of setup.

 

That's the best moderator name i have seen yet man lol priceless, That's my name on ls1 tech.

 

At 383 cu. in. and 11.5:1 compression ratio it'd better make 450 ft. lbs of torque! But even a gen 1 or 2 can do that, especially with AFR heads. The fuel economy and idle just wouldn't be as good because of no active fuel management and direct injection.

 

Its a very sweet engine though! For comparison's sake:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/hot...#ixzz2AM7G1Sbr

"The LT1 head features smaller combustion chambers designed to complement the volume of the unique topography of the pistons' heads. The smaller chamber size and sculpted pistons produce an 11.5:1 compression ratio, while the head features large, straight and rectangular intake ports with a slight twist to enhance mixture motion"
<---Have you seen the JE SRP pistons? They match to the "old" Vortec style heads. I guess you can mill Edelbrock aluminum Performer RPM E-TEC's to get 11.5CR. Edelbrock uses Computational Fluid Dynamics to design their heads. Or the AFR 190 Vortec heads. Notice how the JE SRP Pistons have that same spike on the surface as Vortec heads. Dr. J's Performance uses the CP bullet pistons and from the pictures it seems similar.


"Increased power and efficiency were made possible by an unprecedented level of analysis, including computational fluid dynamics, to optimize the combustion system, the direct injection fuel system, active fuel management and variable valve timing systems that support it. More than 10 million hours of computational analysis were conducted on the engine program, including 6 million hours (CPU time) dedicated to the advanced combustion system." (See Above)


"Advanced oiling system, with available dry-sump system: The LT1 oiling system - including oil-spray piston cooling - was also optimized for improved performance. It is driven by a new, variable-displacement oil pump that enables more efficient oil delivery, per the engine's operating conditions. Its dual-pressure control enables operation at a very efficient oil pressure at lower rpm coordinated with AFM and delivers higher pressure at higher engine speeds to provide a more robust lube system for aggressive engine operation."
(Install a Moroso road racing plan or Dry Sump system. If you're really racing, then install a dry sump system. Smokey Yunick wrote that was the only way to prevent oil starvation at high G's in the corners.)

"Standard oil-spray piston cooling sprays the underside of each piston and the surrounding cylinder wall with an extra layer of cooling oil, via small jets located at the bottom of the cylinders. For optimal efficiency, the oil jets are used only when they are needed the most: at start-up, giving the cylinders extra lubrication that reduces noise, and at higher engine speeds, when the engine load demands, for extra cooling and greater durability." (BLP used to make a piston oil cooler for SBC. It was a machined into the block by your machinist. http://www.blp.com/pdf/NP2006.pdf)

"Dexos semi-synthetic motor oil, with a 5W30 specification, helps reduce friction to further enhance the LT1's efficiency." (Can we say Royal Purple, AMSoil, Joe Gibbs Racing, Oil Extreme or Quantum Blue, or Redline synthetic anyone?)

The bottom 3 can't be installed into a SBC but there are somethings to do to get close:
"New, tri-lobe camshaft: Compared to the Gen 4 Small Block, the camshaft remains in the same position relative to the crankshaft and is used with a new rear cam bearing, but it features an all-new "tri-lobe" designed lobe which exclusively drives the engine-mounted direct injection high-pressure fuel pump, which powers the direct-injection combustion system. The cam's specifications include 14mm/13.3mm (0.551/0.524-inch) intake/exhaust lift, 200/207-crank angle degrees intake/exhaust duration at 0.050-inch tappet lift and a 116.5-degree cam angle lobe separation."


(That's a very small duration cam with probably 1.6-1.7 rockers. For a SBC, if you look up Comp XR252HR (Extreme energy hyd. roller cam) it has similar specs at 200/206 Int./Exh. as the new LT1 cam except on a 110 degr. Lobe separation. That cam only has 35 degrees of overlap. With a cam spread out to 116.5 degrees, the overlap reduces to 22 degrees. I'm using formula number 2 on this site: http://members.uia.net/pkelley2/Overlap.html to figure out overlap. Another good comparison would be the XFI version. 252XFR HR13. 202/212 and .550/.546 with 1.6 rockers ground on 113 LSA. That's a VERY small cam and there probably isn't going to be an aftermarket for it for a few years. So yes, they could probably get 500HP with a cam change. Heck, Lingenfelter wrote in his book that they were able to make 500HP from the LT5 by re-timing the stock cam and increasing the overlap.)


"New, cam-driven fuel pump: The direct injection system features a very-high-pressure fuel pump, which delivers up to 15Mpa (150 bar). The high-pressure, engine-driven fuel pump is fed by a conventional fuel-tank-mounted pump. The direct injection pump is mounted in the "valley" between cylinder heads - beneath the intake manifold - and is driven by the camshaft at the rear of the engine. This location ensures any noise generated by the pump is muffled by the intake manifold and other insulation in the valley." (No retrofit for SBC that I know of.)


"PCV-integrated rocker covers: One of the most distinctive features of the new engine is its domed rocker covers, which house the, patent-pending, integrated positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system that enhances oil economy and oil life, while reducing oil consumption and contributing to low emissions. The rocker covers also hold the direct-mount ignition coils for the coil-near-plug ignition system. Between the individual coil packs, the domed sections of the covers contain baffles that separate oil and air from the crankcase gases - about three times the oil/air separation capability of previous engines." (I don't know about the PCV system, but you could do the 24x conversion but it's very expensive. For me, a stock HEI distributor with MSD ignition module and coil or Accel equivalent were ok.)



The above cannot be retrofitted into a SBC but see comments in brackets.


"Intake manifold and throttle body assembly: The LT1's intake manifold features a "runners in a box" design, wherein individual runners inside the manifold feed a plenum box that allows for excellent, high-efficiency airflow packaged beneath the car's low hood line." (Can someone say Lingenfelter SUPER RAM or SLP T-Ram Hello????)

Four-into-one exhaust manifolds: The LT-1 uses a cast version of the "four-into-one" short-header exhaust manifold design used on the Gen 4 LS7 engine. The cast header passages enable consistent exhaust flow into the "wide mouth" collector at the converter. (Dyno Don headers or perhaps Hookers if you can't afford Dyno Don's if you're running shorties. Hooker LT's otherwise.)


Cooling system, humidity sensor and more: Additional features and technologies of the Gen 5 Small Block include:

* A revised cooling system with an offset water pump and thermostat for more efficient performance (Although you can't do much about the stock cooling system, Evan's has probably got the best water pump around with the scroll style impeller. You could use a Robert Shaw/Mr. Gasket thermostat and if you really needed it, do an Evan's NPG+ coolant conversion.)



* Air induction humidity sensor ensures optimal combustion efficiency, regardless of the surrounding air's humidity (No retrofit there)




* 58X ignition system with individual ignition coil modules and iridium-tip spark plugs (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...-cylinder.html is as good as you're going to get if you're willing to spend the money. I prefer a good ol' HEI with MSD/Accel module and coil.)




* All-new "E92" engine controller. (no luck retrofitting except maybe you can tune for this)




General Motors' investment in the Gen 5 Small Block will create or retain more than 1,600 jobs in five North American plants, including Tonawanda, New York, which recently received upgrades to support its production. (this is sad, but usually the commission goes to the parts person behind the counter at my local autoparts shop and my local machine shop. Unfortunately, many parts have been offshored because there is some Asian person is willing to work for $3/day vs. $20/hour in North America. And because the designers want to make the most money possible, and I as the consumer want to pay the least amount possible this is where equilibrium is found. Edelbrock still says manufactured in the USA if you're willing to pay a few bucks more than off shored Patriot heads. I'm not even sure if AFR, Brodix or any of those companies still manufacture their heads in North America, but if they do, I'm not sure if the springs, locks, retainers are manufactured here too. Imagine if they could sell the same heads to you at the same price, but their costs dropped 10 times because someone over there is willing to work for 10 times less. They'd be happy as they make more and charge the same. You and I on the other hand, might be less than thrilled. I heard Comp dropped PAC as the manufacturer of their beehive springs and offshored to Asia and did exactly that. I heard (and I could be wrong) PAC Springs made the original beehive springs for Comp. But their springs are priced very similarly. Comp makes more though because someone else in Asia is willing to do the same work for 10x less. That is why iphones and iPads are made in asia. If only Apple, and all these other companies would pass the savings back to the consumer instead of keeping the price the same.)



Blah, there's my rant of the day. But yes, you can take a SBC and make the same power. But it would not be as "efficient" because you need a bigger cam and you're missing direct injection, coil on plug, active fuel management and all the extra electronic sensors and gadgets that the TPI doesn't have, including a faster brain and sequential fuel injection. Although you could fix that with EZ-EFI or Megasquirt or some other after market controller.

 

That's what I was thinking as well. Imagine head and cam packages for the new LT1?!!! 600rwhp BBC's will become obsolete!!!

I can't wait to hear about the supercharged version gen V motor which has to compete with the new 650HP GT500

 

I'm sure that will be the LT4 lol love it.

 

All of a sudden people will sell there high priced obsolete projects engines, efi ect. To see who will get that on their third gen dont get me wrong its a bad *** engine but frankly no one has ever wrtitten a thread of putting the '92 zr1 engine on a third gen

 

Problem will be cracking that computer open supposedly Gm made it a real challenge. Someone will do it though.

thats a hell of a motor wow.


My lousy 385 is a dinosaur but perfectly happy with it loping down the road at 2300 rpm. Old school stuff.


maybe if I ever played the lotto-

 

The ZR1 was one of my dream cars but GM only about 500 1992 ZR1's which means even if you can find a LT5, you can make the same amount of power and have a wider market of parts with an LSx.


There is also video of a twin-turbo V6 which will replace the LSA...rumored to make 750HP!!!!

 

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...o/viewall.html

HUH?

 

I knew I had seen it before but i got it mixed up with the 92 RS powered by the 350 ramjet and zf 6 speed.

 

Looks like a great motor. What do you think it will sell for, $6000? more?
Why out of my comfort zone. Can't buy a used one for years.

 

I been proved wrong but its cool that it's been done before that will be my ultimate goal there something about that engine that i like she ls power is better but i want to stand out from the rest and do something different i know someone who can get that engine for me but it's not cheap

 

Probably will be around $6k new (from intake to oil pan), similar to the LS3 that it's replacing. You have to pay to play, some people are ok paying $3-5K on their TPI's to make 300+rwhp while others won't mind paying $6k for an engine that will rival the power of a 505 HP LS7.

I was getting ready to stroke an LS3(416 ci) behind a 6speed auto but I'm scrapping that idea and waiting a year

 

Your absolutely right... it will most likely make more. claimed #'s to the public are always low. You should know this.

 

But can it do it while getting 26mpg and passing federal emmission standards

 

If I swap in a Magnum T56 and hyper mill the car I could probably get close to 26 mpg highway. I remember reading this article on Yahoo about this guy in India that got an old V8 Mercedes to get over 40mpg by keeping the car at 1600 rpm no matter what. (Yes I know it sounds like something from the tabloids.) and I remember seeing a few super ram vortec head builds that got 22-24 mpg on the board back in the day.

As for emissions....if you could find a super ram that had the E.O sticker, maybe. If the car was sniffed you could probably get it to pass. If its visual...maybe not. It's very hard to find a Super ram new in box with the E.O number see:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...t-carb-eo.html

Emissions is tricky. I think the original 450hp lingenfelter 383's from lingenfelter were sold and installed in Cali so I'm assuming it passed emissions. He used 58cc ported Corvette heads to get that number. With the quench from matching SRP pistons and more efficient burn from Vortec heads, along with all the other stock emissions equipment you may get closer to 500 HP and emissions compliance. I would switch to a dual cat setup using Random cats along with an emissions legal header (I think hooker has a set with the E.O number but I use "illegal" Dyno Don's.)

 

+ GM's powertrain warranty. Doubt it, messed with too many temperamental and leaky gen I SBC to know better.

News just gets better and better. A GM engineer posted on LS1tech confirming that preliminary numbers are very conservative. He also eluded to a an advanced ECM which will be self-tuning but will have the fueling tables "locked".

The locked ECM upset many but there are claims that the advanced OEM technology will support upwards of 600+HP with bolt-ons(ie no internal mods.)





Notice the accessories are all routed to the passenger side. Looks like GM is saving room for a turbo....

 

Gen V L98 to replace diesel engines? God damn seeing an extended cab truck go down the quarter mile in 10 seconds is starting to get old. In a weird way it does the L98 justice considering it's justified as stump puller. Is there any correlation? I think Gm has been looking at the forums is my conspiracy. There coming for us lol.

 

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...1_small_block/

This thing is a beast. Look at that. 1.8 rockers. 12.5 degree intake valve angles, and 12 degree exhaust valve angles.

Lingenfelter may not have had the same gas mileage...but he had very similar numbers with his 58cc Corvette heads on his 383 super ram motor back in the day. (And it came with a warranty.)

http://www.strokerengine.com/DynoTPI.html



Look at the intake manifold cut-out. Reminds me of a TPI with central plenum and individual runners.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com.../photo_22.html

But wow, that new GM LT5 has pulled every trick in the book except using a large cam shaft.

 

Almost 400 lbs tq at 2000 and look how it carries the power band, manners mpg

NO Gen 1 on the planet ci for ci cam/cam is going to match that
Hell of a motor.

Oh and have a friend in Tx that came very very close to putting an LT5 in his IROC. instead bought a ZR1 and well be modding the pee out of it soon

Its a very expensive undertaking to swap that motor in I would not recommend it to anyone.

 

CI for CI yes. Cam for Cam No. Don't forget the Ten Times the Torque Shootout done by Comp Cams in Super Rod in February 2005. 383 for 383 yes. But a Gen 1 needs a large Cam. That new LT1 is a very nice and a great feat of engineering.


http://xtremecarzone.com.au/index.php?showtopic=386

As for the LT5:

http://www.lingenfelter.com/engine-p...hp-350-cid-lt5

Although Lingenfelter now adds ports and polishes and installs new pistons, he wrote in his small block chevy book that he was able to hit 500HP from a stock LT5 by timing and degreeing the cam somehow-it was the last build on the last page of his book if I remember correctly. (Probably by adding overlap, but if it would not surprise me if they did add the port and polish to the heads either to get that number.)

Notice how they say:
"Camshaft profile enhancements through our special degreeing procedure"

They never add a new cam. They some how degree the stock cams to add more overlap.

But back to the NEW LT1. Just AWESOME! If you can afford it, it would be a great swap. I still wouldn't write off the Gen 1 but...the sad fact is, it had it's time and progress has marched forward (thanks to all the tricks learned from 50+ years of using the GEN 1 in every form of marine and automotive racing.)

 

Seen that good articel but their #s were fluffed never seen anyone get thiers with identical builds they gotta sell parts though...

Have a friend who in his C5 ran a smaller head (same CI) cam with 20 deg less duration and would still outpower my Gen 1 by probably an honest 50-60hp They are both good but the LSx better overall. Just cant afford one lol.

 

I doubt CI for CI.

LT5 was an awesome engine. The LPE package made 475 BHP / 415 lbs-ft of torque but requires that you actually own one of these super rare LT5's then dish out additional $15,445.00!!!!

For comparison the LS7 LPE engine package will make the LT5 look silly producing 660 BHP / 585 lbs ft of torque while costing $4k less.

I can only imagine what LPE will do with the new LT1...700BHP 700 Tq GM is going hunting for Exotics

 

Resurrection, I never said anything but, Cost was always going to be waayyy higher than $6K. I called my father @ the Chevy dealer today, Base model 2014 Lt1 V8 engine @ my cost (employee price) is $6800 + $3500 core, so non-employee cost is probably around $12K out the door. And, i can guarantee, any business (not private seller) who has one of these, will not let the core charge go.

 

That is expensive with the core but I doubt GM will keep the core charge as there is no core charge on any other LSx??

The good thing is that the Gen V 6.2 is being offered in the new GM trucks/vans and. In time we could potentially pick up a drop out engine from the wrecking yard for under $1000.

I've been keeping track the C7 boards and they are not disappointing

 

What Gene would say is why go backwards.. He just informed me of a ls3 2012 with trans for five g's..

I may consider the quote why go backwards an wait to buy the Vette.. Go Boost..

 

[QUOTE=Nelz;5449770]If I swap in a Magnum T56 and hyper mill the car I could probably get close to 26 mpg highway. I remember reading this article on Yahoo about this guy in India that got an old V8 Mercedes to get over 40mpg by keeping the car at 1600 rpm no matter what. (Yes I know it sounds like something from the tabloids.) and I remember seeing a few super ram vortec head builds that got 22-24 mpg on the board back in the day.


True my best mpg was Southern Ca to Bakersfield half a tank.. And some playing around room after the bottom of the grapevine..With my Super Ram Vortec 383ci..