Well I have a dilema. I have a 36 mm hollow front sway bar from a WS6 car, and a 34 mm solid Suspension Techniques sway bar. I can't decide which one to keep. I want to use the one that would be the stiffest and make it so my car will sway the least. I figure that the solid on is stiffer but much heavier and the hollow one is lighter but won't be as stiff. Which one do you guys think I should use?

 

I'm not the expert but I hear bigger is better (from the ladies )

 

what is your rear bar?

the real key to picking sway bars is to get a MATCHED set. it would probably be detrimental to run a very stiff (read large) sway bar up front, if you have a very soft (read small) rear bar.

the whole key to suspension is balance.

 

I would use the hollow 36mm bar.

 

Why? we don't know what rear bar he has.

also notice he has a V6 which is going to change the way the car behaves with diffrent way bars. you shouldn't tell him to run a sway bar without knowing anything about the rest of the car and its suspensions.

 

I have the stock 24 mm rear WS6 sway bar. It is solid if that matters.

 

I would stick to the hollow 36mm and the 24mm in the rear. That is a good combination I think.

 

I love these guys- oh put on the 36!....put on the 36! why I ask you? Because the # is bigger? It sounds impressive?

Dewey's is the only suggestion with a brain here. The car need to be balanced. The best thing you can do (Since you own both and it won't cost you anything) Is to put on each and try them- drive the car hard- Knowone can tell you specifically which will work best for YOUR car based on what spring rates, suspension mod, engine weight, tires and geometry setting. Find a vacant parking lot- Do a makeshift skidpad test (search "skidpad") And fine tune your car yourself if things are that critical to you (it is too me- I boast the best handling street f-body on these boards)

I run a 34mmF/25mm rearwith my combo- 800#f springs, 225lb rear springs. I tried a 23mm in the rear because I was lifting the inside rear wheel-It worked best until I changed the shocks/struts again-old ones had wear and the front right strut was lacking compression force- I then went back to the 25mmR

 

my thinking is that the smaller of the two bars would be a better choice with the ws6 rear bar, but i prefer less understeer than factory like a good said, go with what feels better to you.

agood, a little unrelated, but this could be a good learning experiance for all.

when you do your skidpad testing, i assume you check your tire temps, and pressure after runs, along with calculated lateral G's.

in a 'neutral' car, how do the tire temps front to rear tend to compare? should the be very close to each other, or is one going to generate alot more heat? or is comparing front/rear temps something to not even worry about.

i understand comparing inside/outside/center temps on each tire, but i was not sure the comparison should go beyone that.

 

I have never owned a Tire Pyrometer in my life. Just old school shoepolish the tires inside and out to check pressure and camber. most will cringe from inexperience when I post this- but I run 49.5psi in fronts and 47psi in rears at the track on these street tires.

EDIT: I should also note to all- thats HOT tire pressure, Never set your tire pressure cold.

 

from the auto-x guys i talk to , most say at the track they end up between 45-50psi of pressure to get the best performance.

i was just wondering if one could help find the a good balance by checking temps front/rear. it was just a thought that i had when you mentioned the skid pad.

 

Hey there 2.8 ya know I believe you shouldn't go around accusing people of not having a brain. The 36/24 came stock on some cars. That is why I suggested that. I take what you said offensively. Why can't you just make a suggestion without trying to put others down? There was no reason for that. We are all trying to learn from others here that is why we are on here. No one likes a smart-elic.

 

the problem i see with this, is people suggested what bar to use with no information.putting a 34mm Solid aftermarket bar on a car with a very small sway bar (like a 19mm that came on quite a few lower end cars) will cause massive understeer and in the wrong hands, on the wrong corner, could be very unsafe. suspension are a system, and a whole system. if one peice is mismatched (like in an engine) the whole system will not work right. but unlike engines, if a part failes on a suspension it could be the drivers or a passanger, or and inocent bystandard, that dies because of that.

i don't mean to preach , but it is rather bad practice to reply telling him which bar to run, with no information about the car. now i am not saying that agood2.8 isnt' a big jerk , but i would rather get good solid information from a jerk, that a polite uniformed response that could kill me.

</soap box>

just my $0.02

 

I guess what tire pressure you run depends on many factors. Oddly enough, at my last two events, I was running 32 psi front, and 30 rear with Yokohama A008R's autocrossing in a medium to high speed event. (about 70 mph tops) I'm getting good adhesion and a nice even wear pattern across the tires.

Here is a pic of my front tire after the last event.

Dewey,

Not sure if you know this, this is Dan-Alloy. My alloy account is screwed up, so I'm using machinist until an admin fixes it.

 

Well, I have a global west steering brace, completely rebuilt front end with pst polygraphite bushings, hotchkis tie rod end adjusters, v6 2.8, global west subframe connectors, spohn adjustable rear lower control arms, spohn adjustable panhard bar, kyb gr-2 shocks and struts, rear 2002 ws6 springs, and stock v6 front springs for now. The tires that are on there are 235/60/15 yokohama avid s/t with 15x7 1985 stock rims. Right now I have the stock sway bars that came with th V6 but want more so I bought a set of sway bars off of a ws6 car. Then I ended up getting a suspension techniques bar for free from a friend of mine. That is why i want to know which one I should use.

 

You could always sell the WS-6 bars and then buy a rear Suspension Techniques Bar and it would be matched..
The question I have is which of the two are a better set?

 

bes217,

you really probably need to run both and find out which will work better for you.

it should be iteresting, the V6 is lighter in front, so the front sway bar is going to act 'bigger' than it does on a V8 car. but you also have stiffer than stock rear springs, and stock front springs. since the increased rear spring rate is going to make the rear sway bar 'act bigger', i don't really know which is going to come out being the better choice. it could really be either of them, the both seem like viable options given your setup, pick the one that fits your driving style the best. the 36mm WS6 bar is going to oversteer a little more than the aftermarket bar, but given your setup , it may be too much oversteer for your driving style. but the aftermarket may push to much for your liking :shrugs:

let us know how it turns out.

 

Sway bars can be a tricky business. And MORE than ANY other factor, it comes down to driver preference. Me personally? I like a "loose" car...that comes from growing up racing roundy-round. It's comforting for me to know exactly where the rear will come around, and still have time to correct.

That being said...


The rule of thumb for good handling on a street driven car is to use BIG bars with SOFTER springs, and SMALLER bars with STIFFER springs.

One of the best Riding / handling cars I ever drove was a V-6 Malibu that I built a 383 for. It had brand new stock V-6 spring when I bought it, so I installed a 36mm hollow front bar and a fat rear bar from a Monte SS. That car rode SO smooth, but handled very well in the curves thanks to the bigger bars.


Stiff springs + poly bushings + big swaybars may FEEL solid, but on uneven surfaces, at speed, a car that doesn't have enough "give" in the suspension will skitter and jump across the smallest road imperfections, making handling at speed an interesting concept.


I say try each bar and see how you like it.


Just my 2 cents

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ctandc
Sway bars can be a tricky business.
[QUOTE]

OHHH YEAH, and not something you can just tell someone which bars will be 'better' i spent alot of time working on my sway bars, and working with diffrent endlink sleves, until i got it right where i wanted it (that will have to be another thread sometime, about making very find adjustments with slightly differing endlink sleaves)

yes, to a point, thirdgens seem to do rather well even with aftermarket springs (pro-kit and the such) and the larger sway bars, and have great streetable handling.

that being said, i run BIG swaybars, and have the factory RS softride springs on my car

the other thing that is often missed, is the tire/wheel combo being used, i have seen/driven several cars that have HIGH rate springs, big swaybars, 18's and little itty bitty rubberband sidewall tires, and although the combo would woork great on a track, driving them on the street with ruts, and bumps and the such, they are too reactive for me to feel confident pushing it too far. people seem to think that smaller sidewall = better handling, which isn't true. going to a smaller sidewall will help the feel of a car with a soft suspension, but if you have a super tight suspension it probably isn't the best move performance wise to move into an 18, esepcialy for a street car, because on those tires and a tight suspension, once you start to lose it, it is not going to be very forgiving, it is goona loop on you quick.

just some more food for thought...

 

i didnt bother reading the long replies.

this logic applys to all parts that can be swapped as easily and quickly as swaybars:

put one on.. try it out, see how you like it...

swap the other one on, try that one out...

if you have to, go back and forth again to compare...


pick the one you like best/worked the best/matched your driving style, ect......

 

More info. My 85 IROC came stock with a solid 34 mm front and solid 24 mm rear. The WS6/1LE bars are hollow 36 front and solid 24 rear. As suggested, a little experimentation might be in order. Note my sig. The car rides firmly but not harshly.

JamesC

 

I'm with James here: My '88 Iroc came with the hollow 34/24 combo which is a good set. I did switch to the 36mm bar tho. My '91 RS with the F41 package has the same stock springs as my Iroc (BZW/NNL) but came with a 34mm hollow bar up front and a 21mm rear bar, and it had a bit more "give" in the rear than the Iroc. I switched the rear bar in the RS to a 24mm bar and it did in fact up the breaking point at which the rear felt like it was ready to come around. But that's where I like it so I stuck with that bar. Looks like a trial and error thing here, hopefully with much more trial than error.



Ed

 

I agree, run the car, make the bar change and see what happens. There are a couple schools of thought here, I believe it was Guldstrand who like to build the suspension, then use the sway bars for fine tuning. The other guy (I think it was Mitchell) liked to run the softest springs possible to follow the road indulations and then use the largest sway bars possible. Since you're budget is limited, use whatever springs are on the car, set the ride height (cut the springs, use v6 springs, whatever you plan on doing) then base line the car and start changing parts. It has been my experience that camaros like a smaller bar in front to keep the car from pushing, but you may find out differently, again testing is the only way to find out. Now, don't fall into the trap of changing the end of the car that is working. By this I mean that if the car is loose, they tend to make changes to that end of the car, don't do that, go to the front and put a bigger bar in the front, to loosen it,(the front) up. Remember balance is what you're looking for. Now that we're on that subject. you can change " loose-in tight out" and "tight in loose out" by raising or lowering one end of the panhard bar, and these changes are huge. To prevent this from affecting your car make sure that as the car is setting on level ground, the panhard bar is parallel with the rear axle. At least thet would be a good baseline, and you need to make sure the rearend is centerred. Have fun, you're going to learn a lot, so take notes. One other thing, a hollow bar is not only lighter, but is also stiffer as the same solid bar (if the material is the same).
Loose is fast
Slow cars always handle.
........words to live by.