330hp_91RS

I can't hook up in my 95' TA for crap.

Power: 390 rwhp (460fly) 365 rwtq ( 425-430 fly)
Tire: Bridgestone 275/40/17 Pole Position
Gear: 3.73
Clutch: Centerforce Dual friction
Suspension Mods:

BBK LCA's
BBK panhard rod
BMR Relocation Brakets set on lowest hole
Eibach lowering springs
Strut brace
Energy Susp. Torque arm bushing
NOT INSTALLED YET: Tubular SFC's ( Dyno Don is installing them soon)


When I say I get no traction, I really mean it. I can't even put the pedal to the floor in 1st gear until I'm past 4000 rpms or else I'm ALL over the road. If I realease the clutch above 2000 rpms I'm screwed.

So what next????
I WILL NOT RUN A DRAG RADIAL.
This is my only car, and I can't buy new tires every 4000 miles.

I WAS going to get some 17x11 rear wheels but a 315/30 tire is 250 bucks a pop!!!!

I also looked at Torque arms and was wondering if one would help, OR if I just have to much power to be put to the ground with these tires. I was thinking of getting one of the ones that relocates the instant center backward to improve tration. I have ZERO wheelhop, just tons of spin.

I also checked out the one edelbrock makes for $170 and was wondering if that is a good route even though it is still stock length.

ANY SUGGESTIONS????

MdFormula350

i would go ahead and maybe try using a rear passengers side airbag in the spring and as for the torque arm, u might want to look into the spohn unit, but if u just want an adjustable stock length one try edelbrock, slp, and other companies.

as i see it u have alot of nice rear suspension pieces, might as well top it off with a new torque arm.

AGood2.8

You are not going to get off the line traction on low profile tires- no matter what you do. The only thing you could do to help the situation a little is to fab in a torque absorber- it would be cheaper to go back to 50series tires.

laiky

I don't think you have a traction problem, no car with that much power and a street suspension will hook up. if i let the clutch go at 2000 rpm i will smack my revlimiter in about a second. Low profile tires with big blocky tread patterns and a stiff sidewall's compund the problem. Once i switched to comp ta kdws's a noticed an increase in traction. i went from a 245 45 AVS intermediate to a 245 50 KDWS. i blame this on the more "Flexible" style of tread pattern. The peak traction of the 45's was probably higher but once they start to spin the KDWS's maintain more bite. Not the worlds best handlieng tire but if it gets me through the winter its worth it.

MrDude_1

tires.


no matter what you do to the chassis, you have to remember... the tires are the only part actually touching the ground.....



if you're worried about daily driver miles, try a set of Nittos.... a friend of mine went over a entire year on a set and hes STILL got 25% tread left.

330hp_91RS

I'm not too sure a passenger side airbag would do me much good. I have an Eaton Posi unit in it which give much less rotation to one tire before it turns the other. Basically it's alot better than stock Zexel posi.

Mark 89Formula

The airbag will help. When you hit the gas the torque reaction pushes the left rear tire into the ground and pulls the right rear tire away from the ground. The car body also rolls to the passenger side. The airbag provides additional resistance to both body and axle motion. This increases the downforce on the passenger side rear tire which, in turn, increase the effectiveness of your posi since the forces on each rear tire are more equivalent than without the airbag.

PONTIMANIAC 90

The only suspention mod that will help you is a fancy computer controled active handling thingie. Something like a current AMG Mercedes. Those suckers have nearly 500(crank)hp, both the 55 and 600 versions. Getting that kind of power from a twin turbo V12 or a supercharged V8 is not impressive in the least bit. What's impressive is that they can transform that power into mid 12 second time slips, on street tires, just by jamming on the pedal.
I got SFC,TQ Arm,Panhard bar,LSAs and relocation brackets, along w/good shocks and springs. The only thing I got with these mods is more wheel spin problems, since I'm putting more energy towards the tires. Sticky tires is the only solution if you're running "low tech" suspention upgrades......unfortunately.
Like that commercial claims: "it's gotta be the shoes"

330hp_91RS

How much do they cost????? What are some of the details??? Do you have to install a compressor too????

Chickenman35

As stated .... low profile tires are not suited for Drag racing. Either bite the bullet and buy an extra set of Drag Radials and wheels for the strip...... or maximise the performance of what you have.

In addition to the mods suggested here are a couple of " Freebies " that can really help. I like free BTW.....

Disconnect one end of the front swaybar when at the strip. This will aid weight transfer at launch. If you have adjustable shocks.... set the fronts to full soft. This will also aid weight transfer.

If your rears are adjustable...try setting them to full hard. This may or may not help at the launch. Depends on the car and setup. But hey...it's free and easy to change back.

Chickenman35

Mucho snippage...Without being a smart ***....learn how to control your right foot!!

Missed this line at first...you're trying to apply FULL throttle in FIRST GEAR with the HP that you have ??? Well yeah.... no wonder you're all over the road. Hell.... I have to be carefull in second gear with what I do.

Roll into the throttle, balancing the clutch slip till you wash out the wheelspin then get into it. Takes practise and modulate the throttle more than the clutch slip but it can be done. Cornering setups harder to launch than Drag setups.... but all it takes is some practise. Go easy on the clutch!!!

Too much HP, a light rear end and a heavy foot make for short tire life...... and broken parts.

Rolling into the throttle rather than just mashing things to the floor is what really separates the men from the boys ( I'm talking Road Racing, Autocross and general Street Driving. ) One of the most importnat things taught at Professional Racing Driver Schools.

Davey Palmer

I am having the same problem. I just swapped in a Scoggin-Dickey mtr built for me....5.7, FastBurn heads & HotCam.
TPIS runners, plenum, prom, fuel regulator. dyno'd today @ 276HP, 344lbft in Denver (mile hi), Hothkis TVR susp kit, except sub-frame connectors not yet installed, Eaton w/3.73:1, aluminum drive shaft and a built 700R4 & 2400 stall conv, 17" w/Falken tires. My next move is the torque arm exchange.

Steve89GTA

Davey,
Why didn't you go with the TPI motor they have that advertises 357hP at the crank? Seems like a nice combo of a motor and both HP and torque peak in the 5000 range right?

330hp_91RS

He dynoed the car one MILE above sea level.

330hp_91RS

You came off as a smart ***. I can easily control my right foot, and have no problem easing out the clutch when I race and not breaking the tires loose. Even then, when I hit second I have to go easy or I all over the place. That is not what this post is about. My car would be AT LEAST .5 seconds quicker in the quarter with traction. A guy with a 95 Z-28 putting out the EXACT same number as me to the wheels ran a 11.3 w/ 4.11's. I have 3.73's. I would be fine and dandy with running an 11.8 or so.

Anyway, the name of the game is getting the power to the pavement. I don't need anymore power, I've got a mid 11 second car as it is IF I COULD GET TRACTION, but I want to get more of it to the ground so I can realize it.

Make sense??? Right now I could get beat by a car with less than 400rwhp if it has traction and I don't. So what do I have the extra power for???? I'm not saying I don't want it, but I want to get as much of it to the ground as possible, to optimize my E.t.'s.

Wheew....don't want to be a jerk, but I think you understand. Plus I'm getting a supercharger soon and 500 rwhp is going to be really hard to drive if I don't get the traction straightened out.

YEEEEEE HAAAAAA 1000th post!

MrDude_1

i already said what your prob is.


its your tires.

not your suspension.


other wise when you launch (and you just said you knew how ) they wouldnt break loose afterwards so easily.


2 things now:

1. if you dont want a short life drag radial, atleast get some stickier performance street tires...... like the nittos i mentioned above.

2. before yuo buy a supercharger, you really should invest in the rest of your drivetrain and buy a stronger rear.


thoes tires you have are ****. thats why they break loose so easily...

Mark 89Formula

Summit and Jegs both sell Air Lift brand air springs for $63-65 for two. You only need one so you could split the cost of a pair with someone (that's what I did). They're really simple; just a plastic air bladder that fits insider your rear spring on a supplied perch. You run a plastic line from a barb fitting on the bottom of the bladder to a convenient location at the rear of the car and terminate the line with a schaeder valve. You air up the spring just like you would a tire. They're also pretty easy to install; just drop the rear end down by unbolting the shocks and sway bar and install the air bag in the passenger spring.

Noticed you were running lowering springs. Running a stock height spring improves the LCA geometry and increases the downforce on the rear tires. Another thing to try if you're willing to change springs.

Another option is to reduce the gear ratio to lessen the hit on the tires. It's going to be a challenge to hook up your car on street tires period. Dropping back to a 3.23 would help on the street but might hurt if you ever run on slicks at the track.

Finally, I run Nitto drag radials as everyday tires. Like the other guys mentioned, these tires wear well. I think they're pretty close in wear rate to the Comp TAs and D40M2s I've run in the past which usually lasted around 15K miles.

MrDude_1

rather then get diff springs, you can fix the LCA geometry by having reloaction brackets welded on.

spohn sells some..

Chickenman35

And you will note that I gave a couple of tips to help you..IE: the sway bar and shock tips.

What you stated in your first post was that you could not apply full power in first gear...Now you state that you have no problem at all easing the clutch out when you race and not breaking the tires loose. Which is it? One or the other? If you worded things like you did just now there would have been no confusion.

Not flaming you and I will now take your word that you are an experienced pilot. Edit: Didn't mean to come across as so harsh....sorry ....but heck I don't know if you're some wet behind the ears kid or a grizzled old veteran. I'll take it that you're a grizzled old fart like me

And as others have said..it's your tires. At least a large part of the problem is. For Drag Racing that is... Street use.... those are one fine tire. Just not suited for Drag Racing.

Drag Race or turn corners...you can't have both optimised. The setups are just too different to be compatible. The 315's will not help...in fact they will make the problem worse.

BTW...if you still can't get things under control....look here:Race-Logic Traction Control

Might be advisable with that Supercharger setup. Works very, very well.

Edit: PS. One other tip. If you don't already, always run with a FULL gas tank and even the spare tire if you can. The extra rearward weight transfer more than offsets the penalty of the increased weight.

Chickenman35

Think he's already done that. Specs list " BMR relocation brackets on lowest hole "

88 IROC BOB

Like was said above. With 390rwhp you are going to need slicks to get optimum et's.

Bob

330hp_91RS

Not true. What I said in my first post was that full throttle cannot be applied until at least 4000 rpm. Even then, the tires let loose sometimes.

As far as me being grizzled, I don't know, but I do all my own work, and this is my sixth car. High performance anyway ( 5 thirdgens, now the fourthgen)

Anyway, thanks for the help, I just want to get as much to the pavement as possible, without running stuff on the street everyday that is either illegal or going to cost a fortune.

looks like I'm going to do the MAC high horsepower Torque Arm, keep my 9.5 inch wheels. Get new tires cause I need some anyway, so I'll just go with Kumho's 285/40 for the rear. When I get some extra cash I'll get some 15x10 or 15x8 rears with some drag radials on them and go to the track or go hunting for prey on Saturday nights.

I just can't wait to feel all 100 percent of this beast thru my seat with slicks or tall profile DR's on it. The downshift on the freeway at about 75 MPH from 6th gear to 4th is so much fun it's ridiculous. It about puts you farther back in your seat than launching the car from a stop does, I want to chang that to the other way around.

Chickenman35

Pity the Race-Logic Traction Control only works with FI....
Would be the shnitz...

Must be some other TC options out there that are cheaper.

Got me thinking about HillClimb launches now

330hp_91RS

My car is EFI'ed. Not the car in the sig pic, it's my LT4 1995 TA we're talkin' about.

Chickenman35

Hmmm that could be the way to go when you put the Super Charger on then. Prices aren't all that bad when you consider what you get.

Been digging around looking at Traction Control. Apparently the Race-Logic unit does have a Spark cut option so that it can be used with carbs as well.

Found another company that deals in TC:

Omex Technology Traction Control

Edit: A thread at Supra Forums on the Race-Logic unit.
Race Logic Reviews

BTW...a 600HP turbo'd Supra is nothing to be trifled with. Yah gotta give these boys credit.

RWB____s

Well I think what some of the others are saying is true. You will
never hook up that kind of power on "REAL" street tires with a manual trans. I have been around the street race seen since the early 70's (yes I am OLD) when there were street race cars running mid 11's to high 10's on "STICKY" retreaded street tires. They to had to walk the cars out on driving ability alone before trying to put the power down.
One thing we used to do is make sure weight transfer
was maximized by adding weight in the trunk area to help the transfer and relocating the battery to the trunk area. Making sure the front suspension is non binding, so that it would rise and transfer the weight back to the rear tires. Also proper shock selection, and spring rates would help.
Also with all honesty you have a hard road to go down with a manual trans on real street tires. This is when a automatic trans with the correct stall converter would make the car much easier to lunch on street tires.
One thing some people dont realize is, torque can be your enemy if your racing on street tires. As good as torque is to have, to much of does you no good if you cant hook it up.