Well the other day i put some dropzone springs on my car,and now one side sits higher than the other it is about a half inch difference. Doesnt sound like much but it is noticable. I have drivin the car a few times since then and now it seems to only be about 1/4 to a third of an inch off. Do u think the springs just need to settle or do you think something might be off a lil? Any ideas anyone else had the same problem? It seems like it is the right front that is holding that side up.

 

when you put in the springs, did you index them? What i mean is did you make note of where the old spring ended on the lower A-arm. The end of the spring should sit in one of the two drain holes in the stock A-arm. If it's not positioned correctly it could be the culprit of your raised ride height on that side.

 

Mine did that too I think when you get a adj pan hard bar it would help put it all back in align if you dont have 1 now. Maybe the bar binds when u lower it and dont do anything with it.

 

Make sure the front springs are indexed correctly. Rear springs won't play as vital of a role if they are slightly miss allinged. The fronts will big time if not seated properly. EBmiller88 has a great how to on this matter with pictures to shot you the proper way.

 

Yeh if its the front it has to be the way there seated.

 

i just went into the garage and felt around the spring to see where it stops on the bottom. I never noticed when i put the springs in that the control arm is indented for the spring to seat properly the passenger side that sits up is just a lil past the indention it is sitting on the raised part and not lowered part. Also when i got under there i noticed the car is sitting on the bump stops how much should i trim off of the bump stop.?

 

Just how low are you? If you could take a measurement from the center of the rim to the center of the fenderlip (best this way and not to the floor, it takes out variences of different tire sizes and pressures) That measurement will give us and indication of just exactly where the geometry sets and I can further help. It sounds like you are sitting pretty low up front and run the risk of damaging your fenders or strut mounts from grounding out if you trimm the bump stops.

ex: mine sits at 12 7/8"-13" both sides. My A-arms are just slightly inverted and I run smaller ES bumpstops- I only have a lightweight V6 motor yet I still run 800lb coils to limit suspension travel to about 1" normal and 1 1/2" max with extended travel strutmounts also. If you have a V8 the Dropzones are about 650- 700 lbs (?) and if you have trimmed them any more you will ground out and hit the fenders and strutmounts with the heavier V8 weight. Just a word of caution.

 

i measured 14 inches. I also figure it will lower some more when the springs finally settle. Since right now the car only has about 10 miles on the new springs. I put the springs on just the way they came out of the box no trimming or cutting. here is a pic of the side that is actually indexed right. This is the side sitting on the bumpstop.

 

f355, I really don't think you should trim the bumpstop-why?- I have read other posts that state for fact that the Eibach sportlines(I know you have dropzones) rely on riding on the bumpstops as part of the rate needed for the performance and travel limit. Without the increased rate of the bumpstop pressure, the coil rates are not high enough to prevent the travel from grounding out and bending things with the car that low. You will get at least about 3"+ of travel still, maybe even 4" with that weight of the car and coil rate. Without the factory bumpstop pressure, that is just too much. And mostly you would greatly suffer from massive bumpsteer.

Believe it or not, they actually design those spring rate to be assisted by the bumpstop rate.

 

does anyone else think i shouldnt cut my bump stops?

 

Here's a pic of my bumpstop clearance with the ES cone shaped bumpstops. Car is sitting at stagnant ride height.

That bumpstop sits at aprox 50% of A-arm swing (spring center is about 42%). Thus, the distance of the bumpstop to the chassis contact point is half the distance of what the out tire edge will travel upward at full suspension travel. Mine has a 1/2" gap meaning that any wheel movement over 1" comes into contact with the bumpstop. I get a 1 1/2" max travel on the harshest bumps with the car fully loaded (three occupants and normal baggage associated with a wife and kid when driving somewhere on the weekends), that saying I ride onto the bumpstops the final 1/2" of wheel travel only in extreme circumstances otherwise it may just barely kiss it with normal driving. My standard wheel travel range of motion is only 1" up and down.

 

This shows normal and the occational max travel of the strut by inspection of the debris marks on the shaft indicating the strut body travel. This is attached to theouter pivot point of the A-arm so travel here is 100% of what the outer tire is moving.

This shows the 1" normal and 1 1/2" max debris marrings on the shaft.

 

Atleast u have some room for movement look at mine. Also in the second pic u can see where my tire majorly rubs on the inner fender, wtf i cant even clear 235's do i have to run a 195 or something

 

Something is wrong with your car. Maybe to much caster? Has it ever been wrecked? Running larger diameter tire?

I sit .5 higher then Dean (hes at 2.25 drop). I still clear 245/50/16's

 

My car has never been wrecked the tires i am running are 235-45-17 on a 7 inch wide wheel. And it is possible the geometry of the front end is out since i havent had an alignment done since i did the drop. I have only put maybe 20 miles on the car since the drop so i was waiting till the springs settled to get an alignment done. The tire doesnt rub at the top of the fender only on the back side when i turn my wheel all the way and only about an inch of tire touches at its outer most point. I still have 2 to 3 inches of gap above the tire.

 

here are a couple more pics showing where it rubs and the clearence i have up top. Where the tire is in the pictures it is touching the backside of the inner fender.

 

Hows your rim offset compared to your fender (front view) My tires clear fine at full lock with about 5/16" to spare and I have a 25.7" dia tire.

You are running a 25.4" dia tire yet you are hitting. You offset has to be too far outward on the rim choice, or as Dale stated, something is bent.

 

Here's a shot showing my offset. Note how the tire still remains tucked under the fender lip. The further outward the offset, the more likely the tire will rub where you are having problems.

 

Good point dean, hes not running stock rims, so the offset could be part of it also.

Since its never been wrecked, I doubt the crossmember is out of wack, or the body twisted.

I'm guessing rim offset, or to much caster(doest that bring tire to the rear?).

 

yes, but I'm running 5.5* caster and I'm not hitting.

 

When i ordered my wheels i told them stock offset front and rear heres a pic showing the front wheel down the side.

 

Nothing should be bent everything on the front suspension has been replaced except the control arms. I just rebuilt the suspension it only has about 500 miles on it.

 

That front wheel doesnt look like stock offset to me.

 

its stock offset just tilted in at the top since i lowered it.

 

i just installed the Dropzone springs in my '86 Camaro with stock type 245/50/16 tires and factory rims. My front end is sitting directly on the bumpstops just like f355bird's picture he posted.The stance looks real good and I've got lots of excellent comments too.

Is this normal or should I cut the bumpstops or buy aftermarket shorter bumpstops?

 

Does your car sit level? As far as the bumpstops i guess im just going to buy some aftermarket ones and see how it works. It bothers me to drive around on my bumpstops.

 

Yes it sits level. I measured 13.2" in the front from the center of wheel to fender (no isolator in front) and I measured 13.6" in the rear (with isolator).


I didn't expect it to sit directly on the bumpstop but there isn't much room between the front tire and fender either. I may trim the front bumpstop slightly after a few days and see what happens.

 

Went and found the boxes my wheels came in and they are zero offset in the front and -11mm in the rear.

 

RTFC: What's that other tubular bar under your car in front of the tranny?

 

Sorry Stephen, I missed this yesterday. Thatat a custum preloaded frame brace i welded in place for lateral bracing of the trans tunnel chassis area to further support the rear of the A-arm mount areas from closing together under hard cornering.

 

I actually have 4 different lateral chassis braces on the front half of this car.
1) The one pictured above
2) an Edelbrock 3pt STB
3)another custom one shown here boxing the rear section of the steering box and further supporting the K-member laterally- can't do this on a V8 car, only a 60*V6
4) A GW steering brace (aftermarket wonderbar)

 

Yup, happend to me, had the same problem as you, the adj. arm helped! This happend on both my '88 and my '94 using the same springs.

 

I noticed that bracing as well. Looks good, its a good idea!

 

if you are riding on your bumpstops... then what the heck is the point of having lowering springs? Or rather, what is the point of having springs at all? My springs are worn out and I pretty much sit on the bumpstops at all times... damn the ride sucks so bad that's why I really want to buy bags...

 

Well, according to AR's website they have 17x8's with -11mm offset and +8mm offset. They don't carry 0mm offset, or atleast not anymore. 0mm would be 4" backspacing, which is what 16x8 iroc fronts are and they come right out to the inside lip of the fenderwell. Now, the 17x8 TTII's with -11mm offset are 4" backspacing, which doesn't calculate out right, but is still a 4" backspacing. The 17x8 8mm offset is a 4 3/4" backspacing. I just went through this yesterday and today with AR about ordering mine. One guy said that stock front offset is 8mm (which is about 4 3/4" bs) and the other guy said they sell -11mm offset as replacement for front and rear and the 8mm is optional so it will tuck in more. According to what I measure and my irocs on the front, I want a 4" backspacing all the way around (which is there -11mm offset). That could be a possibility of why you are rubbing. I've heard of people running 275/40-17's with 17x8's in front and I'm almost possitive it was with the 4" backspacing. If not, then I didn't special order them, so I'll just return then if they don't fit correctly (before I mount them of course. Or I will just modify my splash shield to work).

 

This thread isnt giving me much confidence about getting sportlines with my 17x9.5 front and 17x11 rear TT2s. What kind of drop do the dropzone springs give? So your running 17x7 up front with 4" backspacing? Has the offset been verified? Why does the bigger offset rim rub more? Isnt it farther out of the wheel well?

 

Well when i ordered my wheels i told them i wanted stock offset the label on the box said 11mm on two and 0 on the others. The fronts where they rub are only touching the plastic in the back nothing else. Part of the reason the tires rubs is because it is trying to tuck the wheels in the fenders it has nowhere to go. I still have my stock 16 inch wheels i bet could put them on and they do the same thing. My back wheels still have 2 inches of clearence from the inside of the fender. My main concern is riding on the bumpstops if it is safe or not. If u are going to order the same offset front and rear your stupid something is defenatly not going to fit. Mine might be different after i get my alignment done since the front wheels are not totally vertical they tilt in at the top. As far as how much it droped the car i think it went too far. I think if i would have went with the prokit i wouldnt have had any troubles. Plus i notice the rear of the car when i go over dips in the roads seems loose feeling like the springs are not very stiff.

 

Before i lowered it i had zero problems with anything touching.

 

So I'm stupid and somethings not going to fit because I'm ordering the same offset front and rear? Well, then there are alot of stupid happy individuals in this world and I guess I'm one of them. Except my wheels are going to fit.

Please don't comment about something if you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Sorry about that didnt really mean to bash u it was just seeming like people were bashing me. I was in a bad mood and blurted it out. But i still dont know how well the wheels will fit with the same offset front and back. I have never seen anyone on here say they were running the same front and back. Our cars from the factory come with different offsets. I also still dont understand why people want to put such a big tire on the front of the car like a 275 unless they road race the car a lot. When i used to have my 17x9.5 zr1 all the way around i had 275-40-17 on all 4 and when i would drive down the hi-way or anywhere that had cracks in the road the car would road walk and that sucked plus at low speeds or stopped and turning it sucked and made it harder to steer.

 

F335 is the pic in your signature before or after the new springs. It looks pretty low and rather nice. I havent seen too many run the same offset front/rear either. Usually front is 0 and rear is different. Might want to ask the guy with the 17x11 thread with the supercharged camaro. Hes got a lot of good info in it. Its called "New pics of 17x11" i think or something like that.

 

my firebird rims are interchangeable front to rear I'm fairly certain.. where can you tell the difference? because I know the firestone (free) rotation pattern is not just front right-left, and rear right-left... it goes front to rear as well...

maybe its a 15" firebird rim thing...

 

The pic in my sig was before i dropped it. I think that all of 3rd gens have different front and rear but if u weren't running a very big tire u probably wouldnt notice any problems. I know my car had the 16x8 forumla wheels from the factory and they were different offsets plus i had 2 different size tires on them and the wheels and tires both were directional. If u want to see some more recent pics since i dropped it u can go to my cardomain site pg 7 and 8 www.cardomain.com/id/f355bird

 

krly79 & f355bird,

Both of you are wrong in your points- I'll explain. Most aftermarket wheel companies are in fact putting the same offset on the front and rear of the cars to widden the rear stance just slightly. I in fact am running all 4 IROC "rears" on mine with custom made hubcentric spacers (Not to be confused with adapters) so I can rotate my tires.

Yet on the other had- We in fact have one of hand full of cars ever produced with different brake hub flange offsets on the factory car requiring different offsets to yeild the same track width front and rear of the car when stance is in factory appearance.


Avenger, you are correct in assuming that the further outward the offset the more inclined the tire will rub the rear of the fenderwheel when turned. It still does not make sense to me why his car is rubbing. 1)He is not that low (I have him by an inch)
2) I run a tire .15" taller in radius (not much difference, but still a factor) 3)I am fairly certain I am running more caster than he which pulls my wheel futher to the rear of the fenderwell (Stock caster is about +3.5-4*, I have +5.5* on the side I pictured above) 4) I believe from his picture (A little dark to be certain) that I have a slightly more outward total assembly offset than he does with my custom hub setup and Wilwood brakes- I set just 1mm outward from a 1LE brake setup and an IROC "front" rim .........Yet I do not touch on the front or rear of the fenderwheels I did for the first time on the top just two nights ago backing out of a friends driveway uphill to the right fairly abruptly, the driverside platic show sign of rubbing and I heard it. The car actually also teeter-tottered on the FL and RR wheels for an instance it was that much of an uneven surface. (PS this car will come off the ground and teeter-totter when on rear wheel is parked on a curb, I have shown this picture before somewhere)

My conclusion still insists that something is bent on f355's car for it to be rubbing with tht shallower offset and other factors.

 

ya like i said im not positive because i rotate my stock 15" firebird rims just fine. I think the biggest issue is when you go wider than stock. Thus the need for more offset on the rear

edit: wow 2 posts just within me writing this post. RTFC wat size wheels/tires are you running with that big of a drop. I would agree that after viewing your case, it wouldnt be an offset problem but something else that he is experiencing. 335 what other suspension work have you done other than springs, because we already know you havent been in a crash.

 

Well, basically what I'm going to be doing is running 4 fronts. There are couple people on hear that are running 4 stock fronts. It just brings the rear more flush with the fender lip like the front. Right now, the back tucks in more than the front and it doesn't look "balanced" to me. You can't run 4 rears with out spacers in the front though. It will give it a little better stance seeing how I can't stand how the back tucks in right now.

 

Hey rtfc where did u get your bump stops from can u recommend some for me so i can get my car off of my stock ones. Also u have been a big help for trying to find out what is going on. I think for now i am going to look into getting bump stops and getting the car up on the alingment rack to get an alignment done. You keep thinking my car has something bent but generally when u have an alignment done they well tell u if u need any thing replaced or if anything is bent. I rebuild the complete front suspension 3 months ago and had an alignment done then and they said everything was fine.

 

can someone tell me where to look for the offset of a rim? I am really curious if mine are truly different....

also... how are you guys aligning your cars with such precision? you always know the exact camber and caster numbers and what not... is this a shop readout or do you guys do it at home?

 

sheesh i cant post fast enough. RTFC check my post real quick thats a few above this one.

Scrapmaker i would find it hard to believe that someone has a complete balance machine at home and can truly get accurate settings. I work at a shop and the machine is literally an entire (non-spider) lift with a computer reading camber, ect. The specs are stored in the system and adjusted accordingly. Its not too expensive to get done, usually $30-45.

Is aftermarket bumpstops the final verdit on this? Ill most likely be following in yall's footsteps shortly once i put my sportlines on.

 

Also rtfc i had said before that my car didnt set level in the front the passenger side sit about 3/4 of inch higher than the drivers side. So i checked to see if the passenger side was seated into the control arm right and noticed it was sitting on the raise portioned which was different from the other side so i got spring turned no to where it is at the same spot as the other side but it still doesnt sit right do u have any other suggestions. The only thing i can of is my hole car is maybe tweaked a little bit from racing and having nothing to stiffen the car. My car has t-tops which doesnt help, i dont have subframe connectors or anything else to strengthen the car.