C Murda

ok i just want some facts, ive read tons on handling characteristics of both generations but i want to have everything summed up and simplified all in one thread.

stock for stock i guess it goes to the 3rd gen seeing as the 1LE 3rd pulls 1 G off showroom and 4th gen 1LE was .95 Gs...ok now how about modified??

theoretically both cars would have same suspension mods (swaybars, tq arm, panhard LCAs 275s on all 4 corners...etc) the 4th gen would have adjustable coilovers on all 4 wheels and so would the 3rd gen.
who would outhandle who?

now what if the 3rd gen also converted to rack steering? being lighter from the factory and 1.5" shorter in body height (lower center of gravity), who would be better? this would leave the 4th gen as a higher and heavier car but has shor/long arm front suspension (SLA)....?

ME Leigh

A 4th gen will never match an equally modded 3rd gen. They are just to heavy, 300-500lbs more.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Nutshell, the 4th gen was designed to better appeal to the majority of those that buy it. More women then men bought them, and the majority wanted something more civil and easier to drive. The end result was that the 4th gen lost the 3rd gen’s feeling that “I’m going to do whatever you tell me to” like a go kart. It’s been described as “not as tossable.” Considering that I own both I describe my 4th gen as feeling pregnant compared to my 3rd gens.

For the life of me, I don’t know why people always include coil overs as handling mods… as far as the question, you’d be more forced to compromise on the 3rd gen setup, especially with the alignment, but when you got it right the 3rd gen should outhandle the 4th mostly because it’s lighter.

another questionable mod from a handling perspective. 3rd gens have reasonably good steering geometry for a factory setup, and for the most part, steering box/gear setups have better feel then a R&P. R&P does end up using less space and is usually lighter, but I’d be surprised if there would be a change in handling. If anything, if you had a very good, and very sensitive driver it would come down to the driver. One that adjusts well to anything would probably do better with R&P and one that is very sensitive to feedback and changes would probably do better with the steering gear.

the SLA setup just refines the handling and makes one alignment setup more flexible for different conditions. Assuming that both setups are optimized for the actual track conditions and are otherwise similar the 3rd gen’s lighter weight and lower cg will pretty much determine the results. OTOH, 4th gens have a lot more unnecessary and semi necessary stuff that you can strip to lighten them the 3th gens.

Dewey316

As much as logic says the SLA front suspension of the 4th gens is better (due to the camber curve). I think the CMC and AI series, along with many auto-x's, have shown the thirdgens to be just as capable around a race track, when properly set up. I don't know that one has a distinct advantage over the other. The biggest advantage the 4thgens have over the 3rdgens, in stock form starts with either LT, or LS.

paul_huryk

Thirdgen would have a few important advantages over the fourthgen.

Weight - the thirdgen is a few pounds lighter than a fourthgen without the advantage of a LS1 (150lbs) or a coil-over suspension (probably another 25lbs).

Lower center of gravity - fourthgens are at least 4" taller than thirdgens and there isn't many things you can do to besides lowering the car itself.

The ability to replace a lot more components with lighter ones - you can bring a thridgen down an easy 300lbs by just replacing parts with lighter ones - the LS1 is a 150lb savings. Crossmember and coil overs another 50lbs... you get the point.

The only real advantage of the fourthgen is the ride quality of the SLA suspension, and that (thanks to penny pinching GM) is also a compromise in design vs. cost......

98_LS1

Seems like the thirdgens Mcpherson strut suspension would be a money pinching design by GM compared to the better double A-arm, coil over on the 4th gen cars. I have a fully built 87 camaro with all Spohn, Eibach and koni parts but the 98 Z-28 feels better with the tighter steering and responsive handling. Yes the 87 will outhandle the 98 but stock for stock it wouldn't have a chance. The third gens have an advantage due to weight, height, width and overall geometry of the car...

Dewey316

stock for stock? are you comparing a "stock" car with 20 year old rubber bushings, to a new car?

98_LS1

No, I bought the 87 new so I know how it handled, also I bought the 98 new so I know how it handles as well. Stock vs. Stock the 98 feels more solid, that McPherson strut suspension is a cheap, cost efficient set-up for GM, hell the cavaliers and Geo's came with that set-up but if your talking about a modified set-up then yes, the third gens do very well... I don't build these cars for drag racing, I build them to carve corners so after doing this for a number of years that is what I have determined. Everyone has their own opinions so I just expressed mine

Dewey316

98, I'm not trying to argue, as I do agree (and I think i posted earlier) that the SLA design is better. But skid-pad numbers from various cars show the 3rdgen actualy does better. Part of this does come down to driver prefrence, as the 4thgens I have driven, felt rather unresponsive, with significant body roll. It just did not inspire the confindence that I get from the thirdgens I drive. Either of them can be pushed to a very high level of performance.

98_LS1

That is very true, well said

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

i just wanted to point something out here, my FULLY OPTIONED LT1 4th gen weighs 3500 lbs without me in the car... that's not much more than a 3rd gen so I don't see where you guys are saying 3rds are so much lighter?

I weighed my old 3rd and it weighed 3450.

98_LS1

You've got a point, also considering the 4th gens have plastic body panels, aluminum driveshafts, aluminum 4-wheel disc brakes standard, LS1's are over a 100 pounds lighter, etc... hell, even the t-tops are lighter but they are very close too. Also you have got to consider for what the 3rd gens lack in weight the 4th gens make it up with power, double the power too. There are pros and cons to both, personally I like my 98 and 87 just the same. They both have a great personality and are fun to drive..

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I don’t buy it… my almost fully optioned ’87 formula (no t-tops but otherwise) weighs 3710 (race weight, with me in it, I’m about 300…). My fully optioned ’97 WS6 TA weighed the same way is over 4000#

ME Leigh

Mine weighs 3000#s even less on a good day with only stripped rear interior and the mods in my sig.

Kennerz

My $.02

I have a Iroc with some chassis modes, and a fully suspension modded 4th gen SS.

from the factory the SS had the optional SLP bilstien performance set up. Seriously the Iroc had and still has way better low speed handling.

Now I started modding the SS, (PHB, LCA, SUBS, STB, Sway bars) and I'll tell you there is no comparison with the the 3rd gen in high speed handling, the SS would blow it off hte road, it feels way safer, and more stable 130 in the Iroc is smooth but scary, 130 in the SS is like glass, and totally solid.


Especially since I put the koni SA's on the 4th gen, the ride and handling is awesome, smooth, controlled, sticks incorners,


Now if the thirdgen had the same amount of work I still don't think it would match the 4th onthe high speed stuff (over 100)

now low speed handling, on a thirdgen with similar mods would be phenominal.


here it is , If I were racing in a parking lot (SCCA, JK!) I would want the thrdgen. If I was an the freeway I'll take the modified 4th gen ( this is admitiing that the stock 4thgens ride nice, and handle horrible( to me))

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Same deal with my ’97 WS6 (the 95 comp TA and the 96 and 97 WS6’s were SLP cars, the later WS6’s were factory cars). The thing is a pregnant whale.

Setup right it’s fine. I’ve been pulled over at 148mph in my 83 and with the right suspension/tire package that car felt like it was just getting into it’s stride when it crossed 90, and got better from there. It was like “cooolll, I’m going fast, can I go faster, can I, can I…” To me the 97 feels like you have to work at it at any speed, sorta like it will grudgingly do it if you insist.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

It's true. It weighed 3750 with me in it at raceweight, at that time I weighed 250 lbs. It had about half a tank of gas.

StreetRoc85 350

Im an idiot, i dont know what im talking about, im lying, im a stupid *******......yadda yadda.....


Ok now you guys cant say anything about me that i havent said about myself. That being said, im going to say something that will **** a lot of people off......

My 90 'Bird with the F41 "soft ride suspension" felt 10x better on the curves than my buddys 99 Z28. The 4th gen just feels sloppy, my bird carved corners like my old 600 crotch rocket did.

Then again, my daily driver is a 1900# MG so im kinda spoiled when it comes to handling

i wouldnt dare F with a fourth gen in a straight line though...