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I just recieved a copy of this magazine hot rod july 1982. This was a shootout between the major aftermarket players back in the day. Dick Guldstrand had a Z28, Herb Adams a Trans Am, Bill Maier a Mustang and Russ Harness a Capri.
Suspension modification couldnt cost more than $1000, and they all ran on the same tires.
Well the Z28 won all 4 categories. Slalom, 80-0 braking, Road course (willow springs), and 200ft skidpad.
Here are the mods done to the Z28, I can scan the shootout! article too if theres enough interest.
heres the shoot out article. Mods I know this is over the limit but theres a lot of good tech in these articles. If you can get the mod to move them to the mainpage that would be fine too
That brings back memories. I completely forgot about that car. I have actually ridden in it with my father driving.
This shootout took place in '82, I was a GRA team member from '87 to early '93 and got to know Grant Byers well. Grant was a test driver for both Goodyear tires and Monroe shocks and a GRA member as well.
Dick Guildstand (person friend of my father's for best of 45 years now) has heard rumors from my father of my Camaro that has turned 1.07 g's on street tires but I have not taken it up to his shop in the valley for him to ever see it. (quite a haul for me 75+ miles of traffic on a good day in L.A.- he is no longer down in Culver City on Thunder Alley).
The only reason that car pulled those #'s with those little modifications is it was a brand new car with no chassis fatigue or componant fatigue. Put those same parts on a 24 year old car and it will drop a few g points.
Do you have any idea If this is the same car that he ran in 82 and 83 at the nelson ledges events? Is the car still around and in one piece? Would be nice to know what happened to it after the article.
I have no idea. Dick has had so many vehicles in his shop over the years that make that car pale in comparison (Greenwoods Vette, even Arnold Swartsineggers(sp?) Hummer- hundreds of cars. I just recall this because my father was so sceptic about a Camaro out cornering most factory Vettes at that time so Dick let him take it around the block. I remember him saying something to the point of it was no racecar, but it did handle fairly well- very well for a street car of the time. History has always shon everyone sceptic and worried about some other car outperfoming the factory Corvette with minimal modifications (or even no modifications as the example of the '89 TTA)
The car really isn't anything special RPO wise of even collectors wise even if you did find it.
Bit of trivial most people do not know about Dick Guildstand- He was the first professional driver Roger Penske ever hired to drive one of his race cars. Also, Dick and Bob Bondurant along with one other fellow took the first '67 bigblock Grand Sport Corvette over to LeMans to race. He never really made a name for himself as a driver, but more of a crewchief for the actor James Garner when he got into racing Corvettes.
This article does bring back memories.Thankyou so much Blyth for sharing.It shows what the 3rd Gens were capable of new,and what can be done to bring one back.I'm going to have to go thru my old magazines I may still have it.And Railroad the fact you actually road in her and even more your Dad knows Mr.Guldstrand is really cool.
And I sent Kurt & Derek(kboehringer)a link to this thread.They will love to see it because Derek's '82 is identical to her color wise.
Originally posted by railroad The car really isn't anything special RPO wise of even collectors wise even if you did find it.
This is very wrong. That would definetly be a collectible car. There is also a rumor that this car was the first production Z28 sold to the public. Do I believe it at this time? Not really, but any car that's been in a magazine or that did something spectacular for it's time is worth taking a second look at. Any mint Third has potential as a collectible, who knows if it still is though.
This is very wrong. That would definetly be a collectible car. There is also a rumor that this car was the first production Z28 sold to the public. Do I believe it at this time? Not really, but any car that's been in a magazine or that did something spectacular for it's time is worth taking a second look at. Any mint Third has potential as a collectible, who knows if it still is though.
If I recall he never owned the car. It was a GM prototype of the IROC that he and GM had put together and lent/sponsored him for a racing campaign. I think it was the car they painted bright yellow and ran at Nelson Ledges that caught fire. It started life as a basic Z28 and his testing with it help GM developed the IROC package later to come. I still do not believe it was anywhere near the first Z28. This one was basically aftemarket parts of what GM would later produce from the factory. It did not come factory prepped obyiously because of the nature of the challage story listed in the above article- it was altered to that state just like most cars on this website.
What is a "collectable car" in my opinion? A TTA. Unless the car is the first as you stated (even then its questionable unless its a desired performance car) then the only true collectable car is something rare in production #'s but well sought after regardless of any production # whether its the 3rd or its the 2783rd. The TTA is the only true "collectable car" of third gens that far exceeds the value of all other 3rd gen models in general sales today. If you owned the above Z28 and tried to sell it, nobody in their right mind would pay anything near what a TTA would go for.
I had this magazine and the PHR series from '83 with the Camaro Z28, Mustang GT, and Shelby Charger... Good memories!
I had a VSE suspension under my '80 Camaro with all of the tricks of the times (early 80's - Caprice 12" rotors and spindles, drilled drum backing plates, urethane body bushings, etc.) and my how far we've come! The one thing about the Herb Adams set-up was it required you to be a super-smooth driver with restrained inputs during transitions and braking had to suffer with the nose-dives the car would do with OEM springs. However, in constant-state cornering it would make your nose bleed!!!
BTW - Railroad - Is Traco still in business? I know Guldstrand used them alot for engines...
Not the same car as the Nelson Ledges Cars. The original 1982 car was serial number 001 and as a pre-production model had to be scrapped. I drove the car to the GM proving grounds in Mesa, AZ. It was a sad moment! There are many missing details and sub-story's to the Hot Rod Shootout and the Nelson Ledges Camaros.
Very Best Regards,
Dean Dodge
Not the same car as the Nelson Ledges Cars. The original 1982 car was serial number 001 and as a pre-production model had to be scdrapped. I drove the car to the GM proving grounds in Mesa, AZ. It was a sad moment! There are many missing details and sub-story's to the Hot Rod Shootout and the Nelson Ledges Camaros.
Very Best Regards,
Dean Dodge
I am the Dean Dodge mentioned in the article, (Ferrari was very unhappy with the American Ferrari t-shirt).
Here is one story from the first time at Willow, that got rained out. Dan Gurney went out in the stock non prepped Z28 being chased by Dick Guldstrand. They went nose to tail about 10 to 12 laps, with Dick unable to pass him, despite more horsepower and better handling and way better brakes. So, when Dick finally came in and it was just the two of us, I asked why he couldn't pass Dan Gurney. ( The track was wet and there was a slight drizzle). Dick said I was doing everything I could to keep up with him!!!
Not sure about that one, I am the Dean Dodge mentioned in the article. Also did the suspension on the Keith Black Camaro that was Hot Rod of the decade in the 1980's. Also did the Dan Livezey Camaro that won the ESP class twice at the solo II nationals in the 1980's with a gen 3. Helped quite a few people with Gen III's in stock and Street Prepared, as well as the Playboy showroom stock series and the Firehawk series. Did a lot of consulting on the A-sedan class rules (ESP also) and helped out a few people there also.
I am the Dean Dodge mentioned in the article, (Ferrari was very unhappy with the American Ferrari t-shirt).
Here is one story from the first time at Willow, that got rained out. Dan Gurney went out in the stock non prepped Z28 being chased by Dick Guldstrand. They went nose to tail about 10 to 12 laps, with Dick unable to pass him, despite more horsepower and better handling and way better brakes. So, when Dick finally came in and it was just the two of us, I asked why he couldn't pass Dan Gurney. ( The track was wet and there was a slight drizzle). Dick said I was doing everything I could to keep up with him!!!
Great story, Dean. And I'd LOVE to have one of those "American Ferrari" t-shirts, today! Maybe we should do a group purchase!?
Railroad= SlickTrackGod (Dean the suspension guru on these forums)
To Dean Dodge: Did you know Bob Russo? Dan Gurneys team manager under Penske?
Dick was a very good family friend of ours. I raced for him for several years. I recently dedicated a win 4 days after his death to 7000 fans @ Toyota Speedway and is the only trophy that will ever sit on a shelf in my house (I usually throw them in the trash). We also have Dicks lab coats- funny to see him in the article without one on- I was younger then (in my early teens) and did not remember how he dressed in those days. Later years he always had his lab coat on everywhere.
Dean Ekas
ps- We also have the storefront shop sign from when he moved up to Burbank
Dean Ekas, did not know him, the GSS logo brings back a lot of memories also. I remember when we came up with that. It was sorta a take off between SS and GS. I might still have some of the old patches and a hat somewhere.
What kind of racing do you do? How about a picture of the old storefront sign?
11928 West Jefferson Blvd.
Here's another shootout tidbit. Two of the prep items never disclosed, before.
We shimmed up the GM brake valve to get more rear brake bias, this was to take advantage of the higher rate front springs. Also the stock exhaust manifolds spent a lot of time in the machine shop, on the chassis dyno we had a little more power at 5500 rpm (8hp) than Herb's car. Later learned that Herb had swapped in the injection cam instead of the carburetor cam. Most our work was on the brakes, we also ran through a bunch of different pads compounds, for the front and rear. We had the fifth wheel on loan from GM for testing, we ended up using the GM fifth wheel for the shootout also. We actually won all 4 events of the shootout as we were up against extreme bias for Herb from the Hot Rod editor. On the skid pad a cone was tipped over and Dick ran his best lap the next time around, the cone was still in the proper place for the correct skid pad diameter. But the editor wanted to throw Herb a bone. The .96 lap was never mentioned and without it brought the average down a smidge, the .96 would have been a big difference in the averages of the clockwise and counter clockwise combined averages, instead of the .93 used.
I have been a participant in a mag shootout before and there are quite a few things that are glossed over or even over looked to help with the outcome the editors want to see. (in our case it was whoever spends more on advertising)
So many years later, and with even the newest 3rd gens approaching 2.5 decades old, it is easy to forget just HOW GOOD these cars were when new. Those of us fortunate enough to have experienced these cars in there prime really lived through magical times. With great cars popping out of factories everywhere these days, it is easy to underplay the role the 3rd gen, especially the early cars, played in the resurgence of performance cars so long ago. What a platform, even now!
03-13-2006, 05:53 PM
