1988 V6 Camaro
I just want it to handle really nice for daily driving / having
fun on back roads

I just put Cooper CS4 Touring H rated 225's all around... very nice tire.

Need to do suspension next:
New Moog stock rear springs...
New moog stock (stiffer) front springs (theres a 300 somthing spring rate and a 400 somthing avail for the V6... want to go with the 400's)

GR-2 's up front
Gas - ajust's for rear


Front and Rear iroc-z Swaybars


Should I go monroe sensatrac instead?
Or Gabriel?

Should I spend a little more and get AGX's up front?

I was originally looking into Koni's and whatnot,
But Its a lot of money, and I dont plan to beat the **** out
of my car.

Thanks everyone

 

first start w/ subframe connectors than the steering brace (wonder bar) then go from there. And i'm not a big fan of the Monroe shocks.

 

ahhh.. yes wonder bar is on my list, just waiting for the right price to come up on one.

Sub frame connectors seem like a good idea... this just stiffens the car up?
what benefits will I notice ?

I was also thinking of a complete bushing kit and Panhard rod...

 

I'm not an expert but only do some poly. If you do all poly the ride quality goes way down.

Subframe connectors keep the car from flexing. Go up a steep driveway at an angle and you'll hear the car creak. That means when you take corners the car it twisting and is not handling like it should.

Get the wonder bar as soon as you can. It is somewhat cheap (got mine for 45) and keeps the front end tighter. Also keeps the "frame" from cracking where the power steering box is.

Next i suggest the widest tire you can get (unless your tires are newer than just wait) I switched to a softer 255. Check discount tire on eBay. instead of 380 i paid 180.

Next try hawks anti-sway bar kits. I've looked around for new and they actually have the best price i could find. Don't get used, IMO that's like getting used springs.

Next get Lower Control arm relocation brackets. Then tubular Lower control arms and panhard bar. (that's my next step my panhard is too flimsy)

Next strut tower braces that form a triangle.
Then next upgrade the front brakes and get lowering springs.

That is my list. That will get you around the corners better. Then you get to do a rear end upgrade (9" or 12 bolt) alumn driveshaft. Upgraded trans (I want T56 for economy) then you can get rid of the stock motor and do what ever you want.

I know I know. You and me both want a LT or LS or 383 now but put it in and actually drive it and it will be a major handful. And things will go BOOM. It is all about building a good foundation first.

hope this helps and I'm sure a senior member or suspension guru will give you more info.

 

sounds like an impressive build,

I was actually going to stay V6 on this on as this is
my daily driver, and i have a 50 mile commute each way.
I might build up a 3.4 but that is a different story.

What do you guys think of my shock /strut choices?
I was also considering Tokico HP all around

 

I too have been contemplating the tokico's but haven't been ready to buy yet. If I get them I will make sure I post a consensus on the parts. You could get a little better performance if you get the stock iroc springs opposed to the v-6 ones you have now. The spring rate is much higher and I feel you would greatly benefit from using them.


Cheers!!

 

I posted the following in another thread in this board about making the best handling 3rd gen. I gave a lot of info on what the parts do and what companies to go with. Not sure if this is really what you want but unless you know a boat load about your suspension, its a good read. Anyway, here it is...

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As for the panhard bar and others... DO NOT go with a boxed design, it will cause bind. I recommend going with a tubular peice.

When it comes to bushings, you can either go with rubber, poly, rod, or hotparts new poly/rod thing. Most people end up going with a rod end on the rear end and poly on the body for the lower control arms and the same rod/poly for the panhard bar. That will provide the handling most desire and still keep the ride streetable. If you want true race car performance then go with the rod/rod ends. They make all the bumps a lot more rough, but the rear end will be a lot stiffer which will make for the best handling. However, the downside to poly on LCA is that it will squek (supposidly black poly doesn't do it as often because of the graphite in it acts as a lubricant). Otherwise, poly everywhere is fine. I think the rod ends typically get replaced every 50,000 miles. Del-a-lum bushings seem to be all the rage for the A-arm bushings (can be found at Global West http://www.globalwest.net/1982-02%20...20bushings.htm)

Spohn and UMI offer all the parts you would need at relitivley the same price, although UMI seems to be a hair cheaper cost wise. If your going to have the engine out you could replace the heavy k-member with a Spohn or PAracing k-member. If you do that you should get the tubular A-arms w/out spring perches (since you want front coilovers). As for the coilovers, the best I've read about have been from Spohn (be sure to get the "tour" setup).

Based on what I've read, the QA1 products haven't been getting very good quality reviews since they moved production over to China, so I'm not sure about your choice for shocks. I'm getting the Koni yellows for my car (as soon as they are in stock) since they are the only streetable shock/struts for our cars that offer adjustablity. The fronts are externally adjustable but the rears arent. I think if you buy the Koni yellows for 4th gens you can externally adjust the rear shocks as well but I'm sure about fitment. If you don't like the Koni shocks, Bilsteins are always an option. They arent adjustable but they are still ranked up there with Koni.

Don't forget about the SFC's and LCA relocation brackets. The ideal angle of the LCA is to have it parallel with the ground. The LCA relocation brackets achievethis by lowing the bolt point on the rear end which will help reduce wheel hope allowing you to take off harder. If you plan on runing a duel exhaust, you can also get UMI's panhard bar relocation bracket. I think it allows up to a 3in duel exhaust. Aslo if your car doesnt have a wonderbar, you should get that as well. For sway bars I've heard that anything bigger than the WS6/1LE combo (36mm hollow front and 24mm solid rear) is too much for our cars. The WS6/1LE cars also came with a 2.5in aluminum drivshaft and the aluminum calipers. However if your running track events and money isn't a problem, you should go all out and get the C6 calipers and rotors for the front and rear. That will require you move up to 18" wheels. You can contact pbmiller about that. He can be found in the brake board. He sells all kinds of other setups if the C6 brakes are to much for you.

You should also swap out the stock torque arm for an aftermarket piece that relocates the stock mounting (on the tranny) to on the tranny cross member. This will reduce the chance of breaking the tailsharft off of your tranny.

If you want you could install a roll cage but if your car has T-tops, the roll cage will get in the way, making it very difficult to take them out and put them in.

When your ordering make sure you look for things like Spohns coil-over package (tubular K-member, tubular A-arms, strut mounts, and actually coilover setup), and UMI's rear package (LCA and panhard rod). This will save you a ton of money in the long run.

Most people just upgrade to the LS1 brakes. They provide far better brake power than stock and it is easy to find parts for. Plus they fit under 16" wheels so a lot of people just keep their IROC wheels.

I was told from another autocrosser (he has a 600+hp 69' Corvette... been doing it for years) that I shouldn't go any higher than 3.42 because I would always brake the back end lose coming out of corners unless I am really light on the gas. So I'm assuming it would be even worse if your going to be dropping in an LS1.

About the rear end (I have a 10 bolt 2.73 with drums). I would recommend finding a 3rd gen rear end that came stock with 3.23 gears (they have the series 3 carrier that allows gear ratios of 3.23 and up) even if it only has drums. If it does have the drums, chances are pbmiller has a backing plate for you to use to convert it to a disk brake setup. Also by getting a 3rd gen rear, you can still run stock wheels, and if you want something different, just add some spacers.

Both UMI and Spohn offer great products. They both claim you don't lose ground clearance with their SFC but based on the pictures I have seen of other peoples cars, Spohn's product tucks under the car better. Spohn's SFC (round tube) also goes right next to the pinch weld on our cars so people often times weld there too. If you go with UMI, their SFC (boxed tubing) sits further away from the floor pan so in order to get as many weld points as Spohn, people have to add extra metal between the SFC and their floor.

For strut mounts it is between Spohn and Hotpart. Spohn's product is 1" taller than the stock unit so it gives the strut more travel for lowered and non-lowered vehicles. It also uses a QA1 bearing which is stronger than the stock rubber bearing making your steering inputs more precise. However, they are a lot more than Hotparts piece (roughly $60 more) and they aren't much better. Hotpart is only a 1/2" taller but still provides enough travel to prevent the strut from bottoming out. The also incorporate caster adjustment into their strut mount and offer then most room for adjustment which no other company has. They use a teflon coated chrome-moly bearing instead of QA1 because it is simply stronger. Plus you have to like the lifetime warranty Hotpart has on their strut mounts.

Just be careful if you go with a large aftermarket rear swaybar. Often times it upsets the balance of the car causing it to over-steer under heavy braking or under heavy acceleration when in a turn. I plan on using the WS6/1LE sway bars (36mm hollow front, and 24mm solid rear... largest and cheapest available). They are much stiffer than what I currently have on my IROC (and what most people have) and they are a fraction of the cost when compared to the Spohn or other aftermarket swaybars. For example, I just bought the WS6 front swaybar for $30 shipped to my door (still waiting for it to get to my door) and I found a rear bar for $20 shipped to my door. That's $50 (including shipping) for a much better setup than stock as opposed to Spohns $329 (plus shipping) for something that most people consider to be too much.

 

First things first: replace the worn suspension/steering components (bushings, linkages, etc). Then brakes: you'll need to improve them if you want to be turning faster...you'll need to stop faster/ Just a set of Hawks HPS would help more than you think. Then, stiffen the frame with SFCs and a wonder bar. This is the way I'd do it if I get another 3rd gen. I did it bass ackwards with mine.

Better shocks are a must. Tokicos or top end KYB's are a must at least. NO Monroe or Gabriel. KONIs are a great investment and are really worth the money in my opinion. Adjustable, better dampening, more durable.
Might want to look into better tires. Something like BFG g-Force Sports or better. Shocks and springs should get the most of your budget. Shocks control the suspension and the tires keep it attached to the road.

Reading this may be of some help.

 

V8 springs are a bad idea for a V6...
They have two spring rates for the V6, one in the 300's and one in the 400's,
If i buy new springs, they are going to be the stiffer.

I am looking at gr 2's up front and Gas adjust in the rear for now,
I think this with new springs, SFC's, wonder, IROC sways and
some new bushings will be pretty nice ride and great handling.

Anyone think different?

Again, I am not looking to win autocross, but rather have a real good time driving my car all around, while staying comfy.

 

I'm not sure on what shock is what in their line ups, but I wouldn't skimp in the shock department to save a few bucks. Do it right the first time.
The stiffer springs with the v6 aren't really a bad idea. It's no different than putting stiffer springs (800-850+) springs on a V8 car. I know at least one guy who does alot of road race and auto cross that uses fairly stiff springs and he has a 2.8 in his car as well. But, the stiffer you go, the less comfortable the ride will be. I think you could go with some softer V8 springs and be fine. It might ride a little higher in the front. You could always find out what uncompressed height you need to run a 500 or 600 lbs spring in the front and stay at stock ride height and order a set of springs to fit the bill. But, if you are going with soft springs and want handling, spend some money on some real shocks to make up for it.

 

I autocrossed for 2 years and found a fairly decent combo for my V6 car.

iroc 500inlb front springs (cut)
poly a-arms
boxed a-arms
home made wonderbar
32mm bar

boxed lca's
poly lca's (in hindsite, don't poly them with stock panhard)
boxed panhard
poly panhard
relocation brackets
auburn lsd
4.11's
4th gen disk brakes
175inlb springs (4th gen progressives)
24mm bar

1" master cylinder from 4th gen
wilwood prop valve

Be carefull with braces, some rules are different as far as what type and how many. Mine restricted dual braces so I only ran the wonderbar. Also, you will only cause bind if you run a poly bushings in the LCA's and panhard if you haven't shortened your panhard. As you lower the car, the stock panhard will swing the axle out to the drivers side, causing the LCA's to bind. More so with poly LCA's. Check out my cardomain for pics and such.