I have searched and I cannot find a reason to get an adjustable wonder bar instead of the regular wonder bar. I know spohn makes one and they say the difference is amazing.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...djustable.html

What would you adjust on this? Would you just hook it up and then tighten it down? How much of a difference would this make?

I'm thinking about making my own wonder bar and then having it powder coated, but I want to know if it is worth me putting a right-handed and left-handed thread adjustment in the middle. Thanks

Also, do you think it would just come loose if you tightened it in or tightened it out? I dont think it hold very long.

Yeah...You's wanna put jam nuts on, to lock it in place.

NO experience, but I don't see the benefit of an adjustable one either.

its available so you can say " yeah, well i have an adjustable wonderbar."

The steering surport bar (aka wonderbar) is a brace. It dose not need adjusting, it is a support.

. Later.

in theory, having the ability to shorten or lengthen the brace after its been connected to the subframe can allow for increased frame stiffness.

Adding tension to a frame can make it stronger in certain directions (depending how the forces are applied) and decrease the deflection (bending) of the frame.

Actually figuring the correct amount of tension to apply, or how much to tighten the adjustable wonderbar is the tricky thing.

So nobody has an idea about why except to make small adjustments if I were taking it to a track? Sounds like I dont need it then. Thanks

.

Vetruck-

Do you have any pics of your setup? I would only want the WB for better handling on the street with some illegal street racing also so I think I will make my own WB without the adjustable setup.

.

i still owe my camaro dont really work on it any more , i got a 1980 c-10 i feel in love with when i drove it home to rip its engine out , but now currently restoring it for street use , but i still love reading threads like this , cause i still love 3rd gens , and my chevy 400 from this truck will see a camaro soon or later seeing it came from a camaro the first time

wow Vetruck. I just looked at that pic of your camaro doing a three wheel stand.... I'm speechless. But if I could say something it would be like: thats amazing. lol

Did you preload the brace in front of your engine outward or inward? Does the direction depend more on one thing or the other, or just test and trial? Thanks

Also, would you preload the WB in or out? Or another test and trial thing?

Preload it outward (spread it) just enough to snug it. Do not force it, just adequately snug to put preload against the frame rails up front.

Hi Dean,

I will jump in on this one, Please tell me why out is better then in.

Jerry

Hey Jerry, long time no talk or see. Hope all is well.

preload out is better because the frame rail will close in on cornering forces alone. You preload it in and it will want to go stagnant or slop on cornering force. You preload it outward and it remains taugnt and predictable in static and dynamic forces.

ps- you need to post a pic of your birdcage front brace.

Hawks offers a wonder bar that has 3 mounting holes per side.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/st...2f-bodies.aspx

Off-hand, can you say whether this would provide any additional advantage? My guess is that the design effectively triangulates the mounting, making it less prone to unwanted movement under load. Then again Dean mentioned that he tack welded his bar to the car. Why not a full weld?

This looks like a good candidate for modification to enable preloading the bar after installation.

Nice thread!

Cheers!

I tack welded mine a few years back when I also put on the other two custom braces. Reason I tacked them is so that I can also just grind the two tacks on each side to remove it when needed in the future. That tack welds were merely to keep from any slippage of the bolt holes.

Over a few years, I had done several different tests with this car even mocking up a jig brace on the STB mounts and found them to be deflecting. The little tack welds I did there broke. I then further braced the EdelCrock brackets to prevent future flexing.

Back to my custom brackets- both of those I run preload on. The first is just behind my steering box, the second is just behind the lower rear control arm ears.

You should see what I have been engineering for my truck. I am on the second prototype. I keep breaking stuff on the truck. I can't seem to keep shock mounts on it yet, they are bending and failing so far and I have tinkered with them 3 different times in 6 months- getting closer with it without building a massively heavy cage system that would be incumbersome to work in the engine bay around. Every time I fix something that fails, the next new problem arises. Its call R&D- I do my own engineering- then I have a F'in good time testing it trying to get it to hold up to my dumb ***.

Hi Dean, In our application, you preload out behind the cross member and preload in in front of it. Now to explain why.... When cornering or applying the brakes, the front A-arms are loaded rearward. That pinches them together at the rear of the A-arms, so that is the reason you mount a tunnel brace right behind the cross member at the tunnel and preload it outward. Now, go to the front of the A-arms and load them like you are entering a corner or applying the brakes and they pull apart. This is the force you are trying to counteract by putting bars in front of the cross member. So, that is the reason you try to pull the frame rails together, and not push them apart. Now, for an adjustable wonder bar, it probably is no help to preload it anyway when it is only mounted an inch and one half behind the front core support that ties the two frame rails together right next to it. Now, for your car, with the front bar mounted closer the K-member, you should really preload it inward. I hope you can see my point of view.

Jerry

I have a different perspective. We agree on my tunnel brace being preloaded, so thats a non issue.

I understand your reasoning that the frame rails in front of the crossmember would pinch if the rear is loaded outward, but I diagree on a 3rd gen. I choose to preload that outward as well for already stated reasons. In my perticular application, I have taunghted the upper crossmember with that front engine brace AFTER having solid spanning the wonderbar area just in front of the steering box- then spreading the void areas in between the solid mounted areas with preload outward. The front brace is to control the steering charateristics maintaining the suspension bump through dynamic loading in "each direction of steer".

Jerry, the front ears of the control arms are directly in line with the lower crossmember and will not close or open, that is one beefy unit. The brace in front of the engine but behind the steering box is not for the Aarms, its for the steering box.

GM themself engineered that wonderbar specifically to brace the front framerails from spreading and closing- proven results show the frame rail cracks behind the steering box due to exerted stress of the frame rails due to steering pressures with the wider tire optioned IROCs and GTAs- obviously, that core support does not do the job on its own and preload up there I personally feel can be beneficial in a case where a WB is all you have to work with. My car is unique because of the engine bay room I have to do as I did. I lastly want to reiterate that most people here do not have anywhere close the magnitude of solid chassis and suspension work to yeild this a weak WB point where as preload would eliminate the weakess link- they have far weaker links in the package like bushings, tires, etc that there cars are just not exerting the forces to make this the next most critical weak link. Is an adjustable WB for most, no. Can it help? I think so. Did I use it? no, I opted for what I think is a better solution and I explained why above.

The best solution is to just weld solid bars across there, but of course we can't- they have to be removable. thus removable can and will slop, unless taunghted against dynamic forces.

Here is the important factor of why that front engine bar is preloaded outward. It is a speader bar for the crossmember. It controlls the engine weight and its force on the engine mounts closing the upper part of the crossmember where the framerails close in lateral forces. Braking forces will not close the upper part of the crossmember since the contol arms mount to the lower laterally straight part of it. Engine roll wieght will.

As you know Jerry, I highly respect you and your opinion, your skills, and your credentials. I still have my own thoughts and reasons. I just go off of what works for me, and it has. I can pull any one of the 3 braces (the fouth being the wonderbar) and feel a significant change in the car. I can and have even felt a significant change in the car with the STB on but only the 3rd point braces to the firewall removed. My Camaro was that sensitive to change. The set of BFG's I put on it screwed the handling up. I put them on in a pinch whenI cut a Goodyear GSD3 and could not get replacements in a timely manor. You and I both know the importance of tires alone from our racing backgrounds.