Just want to throw this out here and see what you guys think....

I am going to be overhauling my suspension this winter and here is what I have....

Parts aquired

36mm front sway bar
Hotckins Rear Sway bar
KYB Adjustable Sruts
Bilstein HD Rear Stocks

Thinking about these parts
Founders Adjustable Panhard Bar and LCA
UMI Adjustable Toqure Arm with Loop and Trans Crossmember
Springs

The car is street/strip car....driven once a week and hoping to go to the strip 3-4times a year.

My biggest question is to lower or not to lower with springs, right now the driverside (26.5in from ground to middle of the fender) is about an inch lower than the passager side. anyone know what the ride height would be with a 1in lowering springs bc I scrape a lot over speed bumps and other things already. But I would like the car sitting level. Should I go progessive rate or would that kill the holeshot? I really dont what to deal with cutting springs.

What you guys think??? Any other parts I should consider???


Thanks

Good morning IrocEspo28.

Your parts list you already have looks like a good start. Are the shocks pretty new?

Our torque arm is of course a good move and we can also provide a nice PHB and arm kit. Since you're thinking of lowering, or at least leveling, your car you may want to consider relocation brackets. These will correct the angle of the LCA's and allow further adjustment to enhance forward traction on track days (top hole for daily driving, lower hole for launching - can still use lower hole on the street).

http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...roducts_id=346

http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...roducts_id=117

As for your car not sitting level, a matched set of springs should help that. A slight lowering is fine for drag launching and you probably don't need progressive, although some people like them.

As for other parts, you may want to consider subframe connectors.
http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...roducts_id=127

Good luck.

ramey

Do you know who make 1in lowering springs that are not progessive?? Really have not seen any out there.

Since you are with UMI, I have another question then. I was one of the earlier people who put a tremec 3550 tko trans in a camaro (in 1999) from dark horse (which is out of bis now) Trying to figure out which Torque Arm I should get, bc you offer some for a tremec, but mine fits the stock crossmember and I used the stock toqure arm when I first installed it. Just so you know I also have a ford 9in out back. The Edlbrock TA needed modification to fit the 9in when I installed it.

thanks

Hey Iroc. I thought I had access to some non-progessives but unfortunately not without cutting. We probably could find some with some research but I'll default on this one for now and think about it...

The T5 compatibles on this page should fit your car as-is: http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...dex&cPath=6_93

Our torque arms don't require modification to fit 9" rears. Do you know what brand the 9" is? If it's Moser or another common unit, you're all set.

Have a good day.

ramey

You could try the Moog 5662 and 5665 springs. They are not a progressive rate spring, but they will need to be trimmed to get a 1" drop.

Does your t3550 bolt right to the factory bellhousing? Fwiw I'm using UMI's t5/700r4 crossmember with my tko600 which is the newer version of the t3550. It required some spacers to lower the crossmember about 3/8 so the trans fit the tunnel, but bolted right up otherwise. So I would guess the same setup would work for you. Maybe without the spacers if the trans already fits on tthe stock crosmember without them.

The torque arm bolted to my moser 9" and moser aluminum center chunk with no mods. However the TA mount is thicker and will rub the side of the tunel slightly on a lowered car, common occurance. It will clearance.itself

Excellent advice as usual 86...

This has me concerned a bit. Mixing parts from multiple sources is a good way to empty the wallet and have less performance than your dollars would show for it. I'd need more info on the sway bars, but IIRC a 36mm sway bar is solid and Hotckiss rear sway bars are hollow, so you might have a bit of an imbalance there. I know for a fact your struts & shocks are mis-matched. KYB is a good middle of the road strut/shock and if thats what you're after, keep them. But you have the best non-adjustable shock avaliable for Thirdgens on the rear. Thankfully, they are cheap. I'd trade the Bilsteins for a set of KYB shocks in the rear for a more balanced suspension. Only shocks out there better than Bilsteins are the Koni Yellow Adjustables, and at that Bilsteins match the Koni's in performance on there from the factory setting.

For a DD/Drag Strip car, I'd look at a new set of poly bushings all around, LCARB's, aftermarket TQ Arm without a transloop (unless you're running fast enough to need it), adjustable PHB as this is needed if you want to maintain proper rear suspension geometry with lowering springs, and a set of OEM replacement MOOG springs. Eibach makes a non-progressive 1.5" lowering spring kit IIRC.

Lowering affects the suspension geometry, which is key for good performance in any aspect be it drag racing or AX. I'd look into drop spindles if you are real serious about lowering as they will maintain the proper front suspension geometry with stock height springs. An APHB in the rear with lowering springs would correct the geometry issues there.

The OE 36 mm is hollow and is generally accompanied by a solid 24 mm rear bar.

JamesC

Thanks guys!!!!

I have a lakewood belhousing for the trans, and the trans mounted in the stock location (ie crossmember). Will any of this be a prob? And the 9in housing is a moser

Yeah, I know, I am make a kind of frankenstien with suspension. But I had the bilstiens already, got the kyb adjustable on ebay used (cheap) as well as the stock 36mm sway bay. Then found the hotckins sway bar for a deal I couldnt pass up ($100).

In terms of lowering, I am not to serious on it, but I would like to have a little more agressive stance if possible. To make life easy 1in progessive might be ok....any reason I shouls stay away??

With the 9in, it is a little off. I measured around the car and I need adjustable LCA and Panhard bar to center it better.

Hey Espo.

Since the crossmember is in the stock location you should be fine. And having a quality Moser helps ensure the T/A will fit properly.

As for mismatched components, I'd build the car and drive it awhile to see how it all feels. Then we can work on specific handling issues.

ramey

You don't need Adjustable LCA's to fix the 9in rear being out of center, thats what the Adjustable Panhard Bar is for. Its called a Track Bar in NASCAR because it allows the axle to track left & right based on how you are turning. Lengthen or shorten an Adjustable PHB to properly center your axle.

Hey guys.

The track bar centers the rear side-to-side. Adjustable LCAs allow adjustment if the rear isn't perpendicular to the centerline of the car.

Ramey

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the LCA's aren't deformed, have bushings in good condition, and are the proper length on both sides (as stock and NIB adjustable pieces would be) wouldn't the evidence of a non-perpendicular axle indicate that there is a major problem with the rear?

You're not wrong. Non adjustable LCAs work fine in many cases, probably in most cases. From a performance standpoint we have customers who prefer a perfect alignment, which adjustables can provide. Factory tolerance of 1/16 here and 1/16 there can add up. It's all in what the customer prefers.

Ramey

Well, I measured the middle of the front wheel to the middle of the rear and I about 1/4 to a 1/2 inch off. As well as the rear is not centered side to side either. Would this cause a vibration? I get a nasty vibration above 80mph, and gets progessively worse as I increase speed.


With a 1.5 drop non progessive, will I have any clearance issues? I am thinking about putting some long tubes on at some point?

Thanks

Hey Espo.

Wheelbase measurement from the front wheels takes into account the potential for a misaligned front system.

The best way to get a perpendicular line is to drop a plumb bob from the crossmember pickup points. Then snap a chalk line to make a perfect 90 degree centerline.

A skewed diff can make a car feel "crooked" and require steering correction especially at high speeds (think big end of dragstrip of 5th gear at a road course). It usually doesn't cause vibration per se.

Lateral location affects how the car corners at steady state and also affects appearance and tire fitment.

more soon

ramey

A much simpler, but not as exact as Ramey's method, way of checking whether or not your axle is perpendicular to centerline is to measure the location of the wheel inside the rear wheel house. Your front of wheel house to center & rear of wheel house to center should be the same in the perfect world. You can also use the wheel house to measure left to right centering as well. The distance from the lip of the wheel house to edge of tire should be same on both sides. This is assuming of course your wheel houses are in good shape and not off to begin with.

There used to be a tech article on the forum homepage on lowering that went into great detail on realigning the rear end after installing springs or just as a general maintenance item.

This thread has tons of info on lowering springs:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ing-101-a.html

...First of all if some one wants to tell me how post thumbs, please do, make my life easier...

Ramey,

Regarding LCAs, whether adjustable or not, the idea is to have flat or level LCAs to the ground , correct? So just to check this since I have lowered my Camaro, I measured from the center line of the bolt to the ground and came up with 8 inches for the front and 9 3/8 inches for the rear. (I would assume there could be other ways to verify this measurement) This means they're not flat to the ground and are in need of LCA relocation bracket. This will make for among other things a better hook-up at launch.

I am going to assume then that my torque arm is not level to the ground either due to the lowering. I have the UMI torque arm relocation bracket 2228R, not installed yet, but will do at some point. How then do I or any one else here that installs this on thier car determine how to level out the torque arm as well?

I think this all good information since this topic is about suspension recommendations and we all seem to be interested in making the stuff we buy is installed correctly to get the most performance out of it.

This is the measurment for the rear LCA from the center of the bolt to the ground. Rear bolt is 9 3/8 inches and front bolt measurement is 8 inches.

Typically the rear lca's want to be level or slightly down to the body for street and applications desiring an edge to handleing. Lowering the axle side can help straight line performance, but may hinder cornering.

As for the torque arm, that part is not setup as level or not level, that's not required, if its adjusable you can change the pinion angle.

And what's this TA relocation bracket? Not.familiar with that piece.

Here's a link to UMI for the TA relocation bracket/mount that can explain it better than I ever can. It replaces the factory trans mount and removes the factory TA mount that is attached to the trans tail shaft.

http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...vg5ldt8nthja86

Right, I was thinking elsewhere. That's not what I pictured but.I know of that part.

I didn't mean to cause any confusion by using bracket and mount interchangeably. If I did, I apologize.

Found some non progessive rate lowering springs from Hotchkis...picked them up for $150...not to bad for $350 SRP....anyone have thoughts on them?

Question?? I have had the set of KYB Adjustables that are used, sitting around for about a yr, will anything fail from non use? And is the a way to check them before I put them on?

Specs: 1" Lowered Front 600 lb/in, 1" Lowered Rear 100-140 lb/in V8 Only.

The Hotchkis looks to have progressive rear springs.