Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

Ive been hitting the search feature pretty hard and while finding a lot of other questions and even some manufacturers announcing their K members here, I couldn't find something that said "James, this is what you need "

So far Ive found the following available K members:

AJE Racing - $459
PA Racing - $475
BMR - $529.95
UMI - $619.99
Spohn - $869

The PA Racing seems to offer the most bang for the buck, but I'm not sure if its where I need to be. Here's my scenario:

1988 Camaro Convertible - getting a LS3, 4l60e. I want to run AC with little to no issues, prefer not to relocate. I'd really like to purchase a whole k member/a arm / coil over kit, but Spohn, who is typically my go to, wants something like $2,200 for their setup/ That'd be great, but being disabled kind of kills that kind of budget

Ill never race, outside of the occasional "hello, how do you do" so it will be a DD, but by DD I mean back and forth to dialysis. Any insight on where I need to go? If I need to save for another half a year to get the Spohn, Ill do it, but really dying to get this car back together.

EDIT: Forgot to be a tad bit more specific, but do I NEED chromoly? As a $250 addition and all...

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

BMR
Best for fitting your a/c.
Also light.
Have to use their A arms.
Go coil over. I have Spohn. 300 lb springs and Koni Reds.... Sweeeet!
With aluminum motor and tubular, you lose a lot of weight. This is GOOD..
Check out the LTX/LSX sub forum of engine swap... every one there is putting in a newer engine.

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

I have the Spohn k-member, a arms, and coil over kit. If I had it to do over again I would go with something else probably BMR or UMI. The a arms and coil over kit fit well no complaints there. I wasn't happy with the k-member, my engine wouldn't sit level no matter how it was adjusted. I had to do some fab work to the passenger side mount to get it to sit level. The spohn k-member seems to be hit and miss, some fit some don't...do a search there are a lot of posts on it.

For your application I don't think I would go with chrome moly. Since you aren't racing weight isn't a huge concern, not worth it in my opinion. Since you have a street car I would be mostly concerned with strength, get one of the more beefy k-member designs that will hold up to the abuse it will see on the streets.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I just installed a standard Spohn K member with perches wasn't bad. I bought mine off the classifieds here tho for a little bit of savings.

Chromoly: No you don't need it or want it as a DD. That is mainly for the guys wanting to drop any weight they can and are willing to pay for it. A mild steel setup should perform fine on the street.

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

I just installed PA Racings kmember, control arms, coilover kit with koni reds, and strut mounts. I think it was harder to get the factory stuff off the car than it was to install the new pieces.

I went with chromoly and it took me and my dad to remove just the factory kmember. With PA's pieces I could hold the kmember, control arms by myself with just one hand. My build is more all out drag oriented but I wouldn't imagine mild steel to be much heavier. There is so much room in the engine compartment now.

Good thing too. Bbc with twin T6 turbos takes up a little room lol

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

Exactly what I was looking for guys, thanks. I remember reading awhile back about the Spohn k members being hit or miss. I'm looking for hit the first time. One other question, should I install the SFC's prior to pulling the original K member? or does it matter what order? I have the Spohn and Alston's that I will be putting in.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Shouldn't matter. You will want to it either before or after your K member swap. SFC should be done with the suspension loaded (like on ramps or crib blocks). It'd be hard to load suspension with no front suspension on the car. :-)

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...-k-member.html

post #22

Tony V

iTrader: (5)

I picked up a Spohn K member from the classifieds here at TGO. I am using solid mounts. My engine sits higher on the drivers side by about 1/2 inch. I think part of my issue is that the car was in a fender bender previously. Nothing major, but maybe enough to twist something a bit. Car goes straight though. Much easier to access in and around the engine. I have Spohn coil overs as well. Awesome product.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You need custom, custom titanium, it is the answer

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Realistically though James, notch the K, too much money for what you want to do, properly notching will cost far less and gets the job done with no questions on fit.

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

Wow look who came out of the wood work How you been man? I just tore the lq4 apart today actually. Selling the 317's, slapping on an LS3 top end (milling the heads a bit), running a torquer v2 cam (I think) and calling it a day. Ive got the cash I think to swing the BMR / spohn coil over. I just want to get it all done at once and the paint supplies are going to be up there.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Coilover is independent of the K mem and arms though, realistically the only benefit they offer is weight savings.

I'd just put some GW del-a-lum bushings into the stock aarms and be done with it.

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Just to speak up for the other approach; I've got coil overs and tubular K & arms. A lot less weight, alum motor - LS1.
Koni Red struts, 300 lb springs. Sport lines and Bilsteins in the back. C5 wheels.
It is a totally different car, a dream to drive.
I just don't think the old parts and a new motor would have that same effect on my car.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Realistically they are going to both drive the same, the extra $1000+ is not worth the 50 lbs savings, you noticed it drive better because you've got all new suspension components, not because of the negligible weight drop.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

I went back to stock k-member. Spohn had issues with the control arms. UMI has a thread on here and they state that you can not run the ls1 compressor in the stock position, you would have to buy a/c compressor relocation brackets and then maybe have to have lines made? not really sure on that. I'm going with the notch in mine also.

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

Z28
I did the whole boat, more than 1K...... brakes, C5 wheels, coil overs, tubular K, a arms, and Torque arm, alum LS1.......... for me, the difference was night and day..
Note: I have owned the car since December 86........ this was NOT my first try at improving things..... many many times around that block..... this setup is, for me, way,way the best I have had.
That said, you pays your money and takes your choice.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

This is my exact point, you did everything, if you had all of that done, then did the Kmem and AArms, and were saying it was night and day, you'd be making sense, however the reality of it is that the huge difference was due to the majority of the components that were worn out and or upgraded, and not really due to the negligible weight savings of the Kmem and AArms.

On a $/performance basis, especially for what James is after, the Kmem and AArms are a waste, his main concern is the clearance for the a/c compressor, which as already pointed out may not even happen, simply upgrading the stock arms with GW bushings, and notching the stock Kmember will more than get the job done, and with all of the other things you did will not provide a very notable difference in day to day driving, which he's after.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

how about adding a "not spohn" choice?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

yeeeouch

BMR Tech

I'm completely biased... haha

- Kevin

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Buddy in the club has BMR K-mem & A-arms. 4+ years and no issues.

Runs 12's at the track regularly and 11's when he's late for work

Another member has almost one year with his UMI k-mem and a-arms. No issues so far.

Can't go wrong with either.

SlickTrackGod

I do not know where you learned this info but it is wrong. That is the worse way to weld in SFC's with a possible out of wack suspension twisting xweight into the chassis and making the suspension mount points not flat.

I did not vote because the stock Kmember was not a vote option.

The Kmember is the last place you want to loose weight on a daily driver. It is low weight and it counter acts the positive roll weight with negative roll weight being below the cars lateral cg. It is also extremely heavy duty and can take a direct blow to a decent size rock laying on a mountain road or such- that tubular K will leave you in a very dangerous position if the tubing is bent from impact. Tubular K's are only good for an all out drag car looking to shave off nose weight for launch transfer and lightness in forward motion.Lastly, as for ride comfort, you are loosing chassis weight and decreasing the cars ride ratio as pertaining to sprung-to-unsprung weight ratio. If you are going to loos weight, focus either up high on the car like rear glass or fiberglass hood, or reduce suspension weight. Do not take weight off the chassis especially if its low and between the wheels

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

That's how Spohn recommends SFCs to be installed. http://www.spohn.net/support/getatta...AzLnBkZg%3D%3D


Anyway

SlickTrackGod

He's wrong. I have said many times on here that Metal fabricators generally do not know chassis dynamics. Poeple take a suspension parts manufacturers word as the word of god like they muxt be right because tey make the product- not true, they are generally just good with metal.

On the flip side of that coin, suppose you buy a product from him and weld it in like I have explained may times before about measuring the suspension mount points and weighting the car if needed to get them flat prior to welding in SFC's. Then you drop the car on the ground to find out you suspension static ride heights have changed from previous measurements prior to the install....... you are going to think the SFC's are wrong when its actually your suspension that is not balanced (would be very rare this happens, but it could. His suggestion is merely a safe proceedure to keep a customer from blaming him for chahges that are misunderstood.

You do not ever want to weld a frame perminabtly into a tweaked state. Youw ant all the suspension ount points on the chassis itself to be symmetrical off the ground- that is your basis 101 foundaton of the chassis and overall handling.

SlickTrackGod

Let me and example how his way is wrong- many variables can effect the chassis.

Worn swaybar links favoring some X-weight into the car- over time the chassis will compensate and tweak (remember its a unibody that is weak without SFC's we are talking about.

also- factory springs are not all even. Tey car vary in rate sometimes as much as 30lbs. Lets say the LF is 542, RF is 566, LR is 134, RR is 125. When the car was new off the factory line the car would have had about 52% X-weight. Over time the chassis fatigues and the weight balances oput a little more...MAYBE... or springs could have fatigued over time and rates went closer- you never know. It they remainsed constant, then the chassis would flew perminantly to compensate and now you have a chassis that is no longer flat. You have now welded that chassis perminately tweaked. You then change to a performance set of matched springs and all of a sudden you can;t get your corner heights correct- who's fault is that? Your ead bad info on a car forum and listened to their advice without any explination as to why they suggest that.

we could get into bent parts, improper alignment setting( a person could have just installed a bunch of new parts and then set the car on the ground not realizing the alignment footprint of the tires can greatly effect the ride height, etc....I could go on but I won;t.... you measure off the suspension mount points, period. (not my way, its THE way)

My two cents (I think mine is worth more than theirs)

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

That works well on paper, in theory. Too bad it's not practical. Go ahead and level out the mounting points to prepare your vehicle for the SFC install - see how well the doors open and close. Your suggested method is technically correct, but again, completely impractical unless your working on just a shell. For the typical install, the method Spohn lists is best.

Bold statement. You're contradicting long established methods that have proven time and time again by the best in the business (aside from Spohn). What are your credentials again?

Back to the OP. I just recently purchased my PA Racing K-member for $440 SHIPPED. Mild steel with LSx mounts and spring perches. The chromoly was an $80 option.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

And where have they been proven to be best???

All I have ever seen is people blindly repeating what they have heard without ever knowing why. <-- Basically the thirdgen.org way, unfortunately.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

SlickTrackGods method is correct. It is pratical only requiring a level, jack, and four jackstands. The real question is not TrackGods credentials, but Spohns. Spohns products have major, multiple design flaws. Dont walk away from Spohn products or advice..... run.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

from some of the parts i have seen. i think, a few years ago. a unskilled parts assembler. was working for Sphon.and place a few parts in the wrong spot.

nobody /QA. missed them and they sold them.

i have every thing they make, on my front end, fit was nice neat. no probs.
will do a full post when done. at this point, it fits and looks good. we will see.

have seen bad parts from

Canton Racing
Hooker headers
MSD
AFR
Weld Racing
Accel
Just to Name A Few.
the above always made Good with sending New parts
or fixing what was wrong...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Not happy w my pos PA K member..
Its a older K, only fits factory A-arms that are diff widths on each side and the main tube had to be notched to fit the factory steering components so you could go around a corner!!.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

I'm not talking about Spohn, or TGO. I'm talking about all SFC manufacturers in general, even those <gasp!> outside of the F-body world.

What's with all the Spohn hate anyway? I'm using some of his products in my cars, one of which will 60' better than most in this thread, and do it with more weight and less tire.

If we're going to slam companies based upon stupid ****, I've got a hell of a story about BMR... about the first and last product I ever bought from them.

Finally Slicktrackgod, LMAO at Spohn not understanding chassis dynamics. He's pushed these cars FAR beyond what you have or ever will, and did it with HIS OWN STUFF, before anyone else got these torque arm cars to work on a track.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

No Spohn hate at all. In fact I run a ton of Spohn parts. The thirdgen aftermarket has a lot to thank for Spohn. They have driven a bunch of new developments that all the other companies have now copied (ex. pivoting delrin joints).

But the fact is, they are not perfect. And like Slick mentions, I'm not so sure Spohn understands the theory behind everything suspension. I will say that I think they understand it better than some of the other copy cat companies.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Im waiting for this choice before I cast my vote.

Im not saying that someone at Spohn sometimes has a case of the Mondays, everyone and every company has those sometimes. What I am saying is that their designs are flawed. Attempting to keep on the ops topic, lets take as an example Spohns LSX crossmember. The front hoop comes in contact with the tie rods when turning. Spohn in the redesign of it, just notched the front hoop instead of relocationg it all together. **** poor design period. After seeing thier sfc install instructions today...wow..just wow. I wont even degrade them anymore by talking about thier A-arms, the sfc instructions have done enough of that for today. Run away from Spohn as fast as you can, what ever you do dont look back.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Bickering and chest beating become old quickly and certainly contribute nothing to a thread's usefulness.

JamesC