DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

so when I bought the car ('92 Camaro rs 305/auto) it had no sway bar on it, but the seller was including a 31.5mm front sway bar, while the rear is 19mm.

1st question, I hear that sway bar sizes can affect steering, such as under/over steer, could this be the reason why I have understeer and why my front tires rub on something when turning?

2nd question, if they are indeed paired wrong what size should I get? the front is 31.5mm solid, rear is 19mm solid, Im thinking upgrade the rear to a bigger one, maybe give me oversteer, but what size?

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

Front tires rubbing is just a product of running wide front tires with the factory steering box on a car that came with 15" wheels. I'm gonna guess you're running a 235 width or wider up front? Not a big deal, just touch the affected areas up to prevent rust and try not to go full lock with the steering too often.

Too small (or no) front bar will cause oversteer.

As far as tuning goes, you'll want to decide on a tire size and a spring rate to stick with. These will have the biggest effect on handling balance. Sway bars are the last thing you do to get a chassis neutral since they're the cheapest and easiest to change. Basically just autox the car or find a nice wide turn or open area with lots of run off and nothing to hit and figure out which end of the car slides first. Some initial understeer for safety is generally a good idea for a street car, for an autoxer a little controllable oversteer is a good thing. Bigger front bars yield understeer, bigger rear bars cause oversteer. You can get a variety of different bars at the junkyard. The factory 36/24mm combination seems well liked but every car and every driver is different; just find what works for YOU.

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

car came with 16" wheels and im running 225s on front, but I cant seem to find where its rubbing, only rubs when close to the turn lock tho.

i want the oversteer, so... should I get like a 34mm rear sway bar?

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

THe biggest rear bar is 24mm. That will probably be too big though. There is a21 or 22mm rear bar that was used, it would probably be a better fit to balance out the car. You could also keep the rear bar you have and go smaller up front. The smallest front bar is 30mm I think.

As for the rubbing, make sure you frame rail isn't cracked by the steering gear. Pretty common problem, and that can cause rubbing as well.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

No front sway bar can certiably cause rubbing.

Put what you gave on it, and see how it does.

Sway bar sizes have a lot to do with spring rates.

Gumby

you sure its not tire scrub and not rubbin???

These cars can over turn at low speed where the tire want's to go straight still.

SlickTrackGod

(Not necessarily about post- more of a blanket statement)
I want to compliment you on what I see is very good tech posts from you. Every time I read something you respond on it seems to me that you are very knowledgable on the 3rd gen platform. Just wanted to pay you a compliment

Dean

To the OP- The tire will rub becasue of excessive travel and chassis lean combined with steering angle. The cars will hit enough with limited travel and full lock, but take off a front swaybar (which the car should not ever be driven in my opinion safely without one) and the chassis roll will make the tire hi every time on full lock turning manuevers- even at slow speed becasue the inside front wheels caster will lift and thus toos the weight over onto the outside wheel.

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

well tbh not sure what scrub is, when I turn the wheel and its almost at lock, eighter direction, it doesn't consistently rub its more like it catches then slips then catches and slips... until I turn the wheel the other way or stop. similar to like if your over tighting a bolt/nut with a socket that doesn't fit exactly

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Unless my understanding of tire scrub is way off, that's what your problem sounds like from that description.

As I understand it, tire scrub is when a front wheel stops rotating during a turn and slides on the ground. It normally only happens for a moment, then the tire spins, then slips, then spins, etc. Sort of like if the brakes would lock up for a split second.

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

ya that's pretty much what its doing, so how do I stop that?

Gumby

its 100% normal, its a side effect of a good turing radius, you could install steering stops if you wanted. Or just odn't go full tilt.

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

o lol but heres the problem the turn radius sucks :/ so how do I get a better turn radius?

Gumby

you have it, if GM put in steering stops stock, it would be even worse, why they didn't do it, tire scrub at low speed full tilt is normal.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, there's really no way to shorten the turning radius. I suppose you could try to install a 4-wheel turning system like some of the larger Chevy trucks and old Honda preludes had, but it would require MAJOR surgery and expense.

Installing wheel spacers on the front wheels might help, but it doubt it. And that still wouldn't shrink the turning radius.

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

hmm my turn radius isn't rly that good, I think, ill have to get some pics of it turned. for example I cant do a U-turn on a 3 lane road, I actually have to stop and back-up and finish turning, as a sport car I think that is just wrong.

SlickTrackGod

Put the front swaybar back onto the car and this effect will decrease quite a bit. it will never go away, but at least the bobble rub will dimenish

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

We talked about this on a thread somewhere about a year ago or so? Scrub radius, alignment, etc.. There is a way to "reduce this" but it involved alot of adjustment with alignment, camber adjustments,strut to spindle bolt adjustment, etc. I have 245/50/16 tires on stock IROC 16" wheels and it scrubs alot less now than it did before.. Probably a result of the 1* negative camber that I dialed in when I got the alignment done (negative camber reduces scrub radius on our cars, up to a certain point ofcourse..) By the way, the WIDER you go (wider track width, and widening the wheel centerline) you will have even MORE scrub.

For the record, at full lock my tire rubs just barely on the edge of my 34mm sway bar, but I haven't gone full lock in a couple of years, makes uturns a bitch but whatever I can go in reverse, and then back in drive, no biggy, tranny shifts so quick anyway it takes only a few seconds more.

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

there seems to be some confusing, the front sway IS on the car, had the cat for some time now.

and ya I was wondering if changing alinment would help, I wana change it anywaz togive it more oversteer. ill do a search and see if I find that thread.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

That's confusing

Gumby

I wouldn't change anything, GM did special things for the
2-3rd gen They run pidgon toed on purpose, so when you turn the tires run flat. all others GMs are the oppsite, they run flat straight and pidgon toed when you turn.

SlickTrackGod

Um No

GM engineers had their heads up their *** and didn't know what they were doing.

They were special all right, like in "Jerry's Kid's"

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Like the "wonderbar" patch brace? Or a shitty unibody that was weak? Or a steering box and steering system designed for 15" wheels instead of the 16" IROC wheels that were sold on almost all performance 3rd gens? Crappy tire scrub radius? I could go on.. llol

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

lol yes we all now GM did weird things to our cars, such as the changes from 89 to 90-92 but its what makes it unique, imo.

didn't find that tire scrub thread but I think ill ask a alignment shop about it.

and there is no (cheapish) way to give it a better turn radius? still seems wrong for a sports/musle car to have such a bad turn radius, hell the 92 s10 blazer I had literally turned on a dime.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

Thank you sir! Got all of it from messing with and studying my car and reading through some of the more informative posts on here (most of them yours). Just trying to pass it along