TBI Throttle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.

I have E.T.s, Be prepared for Shock and Awe

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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 06:08 AM
  #101  
Grumpy's Avatar
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by Pablo
oh damn, now youve done it, you're getting me started

what other peoples work? none of them had any hand in creating this message board, none of them had any hand on getting the word out there to common folk that you could even mod your stock tbi unit, or, bolt it on to a carb manifold, none of them had any hand in letting the people here know that you can diy your fp regulator into an adjustable, none of them had any hand in getting the word out on the details of ditching the stock restrictive air cleaner..
None of them had any hand in showing the folks here that some ingenuity is possible with their 170hp slugs induction system. Where were you and these other guys when all of this stuff was coming to light here on the TBI board before there was a DIY prom forum, and before I even knew DIY EFI mailing list existed?


You werent here, I can tell you that much, and I wouldnt call being on an obscure-a$s mailing list that a few hermits read "getting the word out". Thirdgen.org has had THOUSANDS of members for a few years now, not a hundred or a couple hundred. I think its up to 30,000 right now.

I dont mean to take away from the guys that have hacked ecms and source code etc but what does that have to do with TBI specifically?

Nothing really, thats engine management, and ill gladly give those that deserve it credit where its due in that arena, and its a very important arena indeed.

I should point out that you have wasted more of my time than I care to recognize. I look back at some of the stuff youve written that was just pure nonsense guesses and wish I knew then what I knew now, that you are a bombastic poseur.

LoL i remember you saying specifically that this combo wasnt going to be good for much more than what I ran on a poor overly rich tune (because its so easy to run lean and blow your motor bits.. just like that, boom) when i ran a 14.8@93 mph

buzz off man, i have told you numerous times i dont care to hear your responses and really wouldnt mind if you just dissapeared alltogether.
LOL,
Yes, early one some mistakes were made, who is perfect?.
So what?
It's takes time, and work to get everything worked out.
Wasted you time?, what a laugh, if you didn't work off of the work of others you wouldn't have had anything to post.

You can continue with all the snide remarks you want, that isn't going to change the truth.

At least your up to publicly acknowledging those that did enable you to start modifing things, since without being able to change the code, you couldn't have begun to do what your so proud of.

Have you worked?, yep, I never said you didn't.
I've just been keeping the story straight.

Obscure, in a way, when anything new first gets going there is at first only a kernel, and then it grows from there. Everything in life is that way. Yes, it's easy to look back in HINDSIGHT and say well this was wrong and this was wrong. Did I and others make mistakes, yep, sure did. Just like anyone learning to walk, along the way they stumble, and horror of horrors sometimes even fall.

Don't get you started?, how funny can you get?.



So your saying, to tune lean, and just automatically go flat out?. If you reread what I've stated, I say START RICH, and then lean down. As you get into the higher HP areans you'll see they are much less forgiving of going lean.

Sorry to hear that you've now gotten to the stage of not wanting to have any real dialog.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 06:13 AM
  #102  
Grumpy's Avatar
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by Pablo
ahahaha so now you are implying my car is a race car..
You need to reread what I wrote.
I've said NOTHING about your car.
Maybe the problem is the assumptions you're making.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 10:15 AM
  #103  
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From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Originally posted by Pablo
Find me someone with a 305 street car (not a track only deal) that traps 105 mph or more. I posted a thread on another thirdgen.org message board and its been up a few days and the only people with faster trap speeds are track only cars. Only one of them really, the other traps about the same.

TBI is not that much different than a carb they both mix gas and air. I wish people would stop making it out to be something so much more mysterious than that.

You make it sound like TBI is at an automatic disadvantage for some reason. If that were the case then you wouldnt see me trying to go back to it. The only disadvantage is that JUST hoping it will run ok will typically fall terribly short from your goals whereas you can hope your carb runs OK and alot of the time it will right out of the box.

I dont mean to toot my own horn but a car with a 105 mph trap speed with a weight of 3250 lbs with driver such as mine is developing somewhere near 350 hp according to the age old trap speed to hp calculation.
thats over 1.1 hp per cubic inch. Find me another 305 with numbers like that. I know im not the only one but I havent seen anyone come forward with better numbers. Grumpy certainly hasnt produced them even with his 350 that he has previously stated he has run a carb on and run the same times.
One of the reasons you wont see to many modded 305's anymore is that 350s are cheap and plentiful. There is also the fact that, like myself, when others finally purchase their car, the 305 in it has already gone many miles so there is an immidiate incentive to replace the engine right there. I know when i got mine after several months of trying to make due with a 200K + 305 i pretty much realized that i was polishing a turd and id be better off with a 350.

Another issue not to be skirted over is the fact taht you have a manual, which really helps as far as losses are concerned. There is no TC or rotten gearspread to worry about. Put a 700-r4 with its less then stellar gearspread behind it and i bet youd find yourself slipping into the very low 14's.

As for the tbi being "mysterious", no, its not, and i never implied that it was. But, i havnt seen anyone yet take the time to really tune a 305 tbi car to get it to really perform. So... put the tbi back on already and go to the track!!! I want to see some good times through the tbi. I know you can probably do it.

Oh, Grumpy, those where 13 sec. cars that have been to the track
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 10:21 AM
  #104  
Dewey316's Avatar
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From: Portland, OR www.cascadecrew.org
Car: 1990 Camaro RS
Engine: Juiced 5.0 TBI - 300rwhp
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Eaton Posi, 10 Bolt
but we also don't get he off the line torque multiplication from the torque converter, and no human can shift as fast as a good automatic. alot of the chevelle guys say that switching froma 4speed to an 3speed auto is worth a full second in a big block chevelle.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 11:13 AM
  #105  
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From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
id still take a good maual over a 700-R4. That torque multiplication combined with the 3.06 first gear along with lots of off ilde torque=no traction for me. and, there is second. I can hold second to almost 80 mph because the ratio is so damn high with the highway gears. Theres no doubt that a TH350 or a TH400 can pull good times but their a better peformance trans IMHO because one can run deep gears because of better gear spread.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 12:35 PM
  #106  
92rsv8's Avatar
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Car: 1992 camaro rs 97 yoyota camry
Engine: lo3 carbed
Transmission: t 5
speaking of the auto vs manual....
there was a gm highperformance mag from last year i have it at home. they tested 10 bolt on ls1's to see which one was fastest... the manual 6 spd took the cake it beat all the other autos.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 01:30 PM
  #107  
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From: Surrey, BC
Originally posted by Grumpy
Glad ya said 305, the 89 Turbo Trans Am's do that with hardly breathing hard. A fuel pump/FPR, chip, and exhaust will get one doing that.
89 TTA's have 305's?
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 02:40 PM
  #108  
nick harmon's Avatar
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From: institute, wv
Car: 91 RS
Engine: LO3
Transmission: T-5
yes i thought the turbo tas were 3.8 buick engines. of course im not all knowing like some others, but thats what i thought. if they had turbo 305s, thats somthing ive never seen or heard of...i dunno. btw, is there a difference between the TTA and GTA? i always thought they had the same power plant. im noy trying to argue, im just curious.

Last edited by nick harmon; Nov 6, 2003 at 02:43 PM.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 04:18 PM
  #109  
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From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
yes, the turbo TA's where 3.8L V6's. Im sensing a hint of sarcasm from iroc's response.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 04:56 PM
  #110  
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Yeah the sarcasm detector is definately picking up some . Anyhoo, I wanna see 12's damnit! Nice job Pablo, and don't let that newbie Grumpy deter you
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 07:04 PM
  #111  
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From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
grumpy's been here awhile, just doesnt post much on the tbi board.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 08:00 PM
  #112  
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From: PA
Originally posted by Pablo
oh damn, now youve done it, you're getting me started

I created thirdgen.org, I invented TBI, I invented the Internet with Al Gore....




I figured it would go to your head when you started turning some decent trap speeds, but this latest outburst is WAY over the top.

How do you even get in your car when your head is so inflated? We are talking Hindenburg inflated. And we all know what happened to the Hindenburg....

Get a grip on yourself.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 08:11 PM
  #113  
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From: Tempe, AZ
Car: 92 RS, 02 Tacoma, 2 73 Porsche 914s
this has to be a record. so many posts in so little time. JUST LOOK AT THE VIEWS>!

Nice...

Ive learned recently... if a ~2300 cc flat 4 vw can make 220 hp a 305 should be able to kick some **** eventually.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 10:03 PM
  #114  
Grumpy's Avatar
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by TonyC
Yeah the sarcasm detector is definately picking up some . Anyhoo, I wanna see 12's damnit! Nice job Pablo, and don't let that newbie Grumpy deter you
Yep, I'm a newbie.
Only 4,000+ posts.
I just don't post much on this board.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 10:17 PM
  #115  
Grumpy's Avatar
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by snflupigus

Ive learned recently... if a ~2300 cc flat 4 vw can make 220 hp a 305 should be able to kick some **** eventually.

Try a 4" bore 3" stroke, 302, SBC, if you really want to make a hotrod 5L. The 4" bore reduces the valve shrouding a fair amount. And the short stroke makes for high RPM. I think a dual 2brl TBI 302 would be lots of fun.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 10:25 PM
  #116  
Grumpy's Avatar
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by iroc22
89 TTA's have 305's?
No.
He was making the comment that 105 trap speeds were bascially the terriotory of non street cars. 105s with a 89 TTA are relatively easy. A 105 with a 305 would take alot more work then what a 105 would take with a 89 TTA was my point.
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Old Nov 6, 2003 | 11:12 PM
  #117  
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Car: A Camaro
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Originally posted by Grumpy
Yep, I'm a newbie.
Only 4,000+ posts.
I just don't post much on this board.
It looks like nobody caught my sarcasm . I know you've been here a while and I'm quite impressed with some of your work, I was just kidding.
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Old Nov 7, 2003 | 06:39 AM
  #118  
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brent,
this post has been up for months now so sorry you were behind with the "latest"


105 is nowhere near the realm of non street cars unless you drive some really slow street cars.

Let this post die allready.
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