Ok, got my zz4 intake and noticed a few problems, 1. An open hole for ???? needs plugged 2. The TBI adapter I got once bolted down restricts the TBI from install....(thinking about grinding down TBI body to make it fit..just needs a notch on two sides) 3. Missing a outlet hole for the line that runs from the brake booster to the intake by the distributer. I am sure there are more issues but I have not even got the intake on yet. that is just what I have found this far. So if any one has done the zz4 conversion as far as the intake is concerned please let me know what you did to make it work. THX

 

Come on now!! I need help! The heads are almost on the car, they will be tonight, and the only thing I can do with the intake is put it on!

 

That open hole you refer to is probably the hole on the #8 intake runner that supplies vacuum to the brakes. IIRC its something like a 3/8 to 1/4 NPT fitting to rig the brake booster line up. Or you can just get a barbed 3/8 NPT elbo fitting and use that. Where is it that the tbi doesnt clear with the adapter? Around the egr valve? What adapter are you using?

 

It did not clear around the bolts that the adapter used, I just shaved off some of the aluminum from the TBI and I was good. Ok, about the vacuum to the brakes, I have a I think 3/8 (maybe smaller, I have to check) hole on the opposite side of the new intake but I dunno if it would work as it seems that nothing runs to it. The sticky on the forum about intakes didn't say any thing about this intake other than it was a good intake BUT I have found it to be a pain since I had to drill out the mounting holes in the middle to make it fit!! I aint too happy about that right now AND why was it not stated that I would have to plug some of the new intake holes up? Leaves me with ALOT of questions and hardly any answears!

 

Well, it's a pre-87 intake. It used the old bolt pattern heads under it.

 

Right, I know that now but it would have been nice to know earier. I looked around trying to find out everything about this intake and other intakes and it is possible that I may have over looked that by accident and thought it was good to go BUT that does not excuse the whole sticky thing. Not that I do not appriciate the info, I just wish it to be more in depth.

 

The bolts with the adapter plate should ahve been flush with the adapter surface. Anyhow, the center bolt holes arnt too big a deal. Dremel w/ carbide bit and grind stone will fix that. You can also get fancy and grind thick washers to an angle so the bolt faces sit flush. I was going to do that with my stock intake that I modifed to fit my older heads but that would have been like polishing a turd.

As for the problems your having, those are pretty typical. I went through the same things. I had to f around with the adapter, linkages, tbi, and fuel lines to get those to fit. Then I had to drill and tap the intake so I could actually have heat and use the right thermastat housing. You have to remember that there arnt that many performance parts for these cars so the parts you use sometimes need some massaging to get them to fit. When I start a project I always know that the parts wont fit out of the box. Its expected. But its not fair to assume that everyone else will expect the same so Ill update teh sticky...

 

Good deal, thanks. Hopefully the next person will be more prepared than I.

 

Cool.

The issues your encountering are pretty typical. I had to jump through hoops to install mine as well since it wasnt made for what Im using it for. People make it sound easy, but really you have to mess around with it quite a bit to get it to work. Sorry this wasnt convayed to you at an earlier time.

 

If you want I can post some pics of how I ran the vac. booster line and other things.

 

PLEASE!! It would really help me if I had some examples to go by. I am running to home depot here around 2pm and starting back on it around 3. I am hoping to be done around 7pm. I still have to run the plug wires, hook the exhuast manifold back up, put in the distributor, and connect all electrical and plumbing. AND it looks like the set up is too tall for the hood. So I guess I will be running around with my hood partly open?? Kinda sucks to find that out this late in the game too. Did I say that I deploy THIS saturday? Talk about a time crunch! I have to get it running today and I will worry about everything else after deployment. I will be getting a daytona hood or twin turbo cowl hood on my return so the clearance thing is really not much of a problem. I just hope I can get everything wired up and running here tonight.

 

Im at work now but around six or so tonight Ill post some pics. I may even have them on my PC but I cant get access to it now. Clearence is definatly a HUGE issue. I was using a crappy edelbrock no-flow aircleaner with a honda civic element because that was all that would fit. You could also cut out some of the bracing, but Id save that for a later time.

 

Ok, The first panel shows the CTS and therm. housing. I had to drill out and tap the boss there so I could mount it and the heater. Your intake probably has three holes there so all youll need to to is just block one off with a plug. The second panel shows the choke blockoff plate. Youll need to block it off as you dont have a q-jet. Your intake probably came with one but if not, theyre available for not too much. Pep Boys/AZ may even carry them.

 

The third panel shows where I relocated my coil to since my tbi sits differently then it did. You probably wont have to do this.

The fourth panel shows teh barbed elbo fitting so you can hook up the brake booster. I think its 1/4 NPT with a 3/8 in barb fitting. Simply install the fitting and run some rubber vacuum rated line to the one way valve on the brake booster. I think motormite carries the fittings and they should be available at Pep Boys.

As for grinding the holes, just observe the angle of the center bolt holes and remove a little bit at a time to elongate each hole untill the bolts are at the stock angle. Easier said then done but eventially youll be able to fit them up.

 

Actually where you have the sensor I put the heater hose. I have the sensor I think on the other side. Anyway, you might tell people that even though the ZZ4 has the EGR hook ups you CAN NOT use the stock EGR from the camaro. The holes dont line up as far as where things are.

 

And I got the intake on I used a drill bit to make the right angle. Still working on getting the car up and running so I put the block off for the egr back on and hopefully it will run for a few days. When I get back from Iraq I can tune it with the chip burning stuff but for now it has to due.

 

I'll take pictures of my setup and how I routed everything.
I changed the way I ran the power brakes because I was having troubles getting instant assist. There was like a 1 second lag time in the power assist because I had the fitting necking down to a 3/16" id.
I have the Holley square bore TBI adaptor that's 1" tall. I tapped the back side of the adaptor for a larger hole for my power brakes. Now it works instantly.
As for the rest of your problems, it's just what needs to be done when using a universal carb with a TBI application. Even the "bolt in" TBI intakes need some work done. I've found that EVERY intake other than stock needs throttle bracket adjustments. Also the carb intakes don't have a water jacket in the rear for the stock heater core inlet. The next intake that goes on my engine is going to be tapped and barbed in the back.
All in all it took me only an evening total to get everything hooked up. I'm lucky though because I had access to some shop tools.
As for the hood clearance, that's been talked about before. With a camaro you just need to remove the fiberglass and cut out a small circle for the air cleaner. Since I have the rather high Edelbrock RPM intake I had to do a little more than this. Not to mention my adaptor plate is a 1/2" taller than what you're probably using. I took a 14x3 drop base air cleaner and used a ball end hammer and anvil to massage the base to clear the TPS and IAC. The throttle linkage cleared with no problem. Once the base was made to fit I had to cut up the air cleaner by about 3"x1/2" to clear the new bump. Some black RTV to seal up the element to the base and I was rockin and rolling. For added hood clearance you can also jack up the back adjustment nuts as a temp fix for more room.

 

Ok, the adapter I got now moved the tbi up about a 1/2 inch forward so the throttle cable is off quite a bit. When connected the pedal is about 3/4 to the floor. I dont have a place to fix up the vacuum line either. What am I to do? I only have Wensday possible alittle on friday to do this.....so what can I do now. I know I can drill and tap but I dont have a set to do it. I need to have it running at least alittle bit so I can move it to the garage. THX

 

I have a 1" tall adaptor also so I already know I have clearance problems.

 

I take it you have the holley adapter? With mine it didnt play nice with the TV cable, causing trans problems. Although mounted forward it may work better. Id ditch the holley adapter and look into getting another that doesnt offset the tbi to a carbs location. Its a pain rigging up universal cables. I wish I knew better before hacking up the stock stuff because Id only have to go and make it right later. As far as teh EGR goes, you could probably just use an older style egr. It should work fine with the ecm. Probably someone on the tech/gen. engine board could steer you to the right part for the app.

It may suck but Id hold off and work on the car at a later date so you can get it right.

 

Dim, you have a spread bore right? Is that why you're TBI is so far back on the intake?
I don't like the idea of having my TB in the back because of the direction the butterfly's move. It wouldn't be that big of a deal is there is a large enough plenum for mixing.
As for the Holley adaptor, here's what you CAN do to get the brakes working. Remove the PCV and put a breather on it, use the PCV inlet on the front of the TBI for your power brakes. It'll work well this way but you've lost your PCV which is a standard emissions part. This will get you where you need to go with power brakes.
As for the throttle linkage. I have vortec heads so it's hard to tell you what you need to do to get everything to fit up. My TV cable is stretched almost to the max with the adjustment all the way out. This is better than loose!
For the throttle, I don't condone this BUT what I did to break in my motor was use 2 zip ties, one was tight, the other was backup. This will make up the slack until you can move the throttle braket. I don't know if there's any slack down at the pedals, I need to check this myself since I've got some slop now with my "metal tab with 2 holes" cable lengthener . That's the other way to do it.

 

I mounted it like that so my aircleaner would fit... I also spaced the pod with an additional gasket to try and keep most of the flow off of the butterflies during P/T cruise.

It does cause problems with the stock tbi and the TV cable as the like pressures are all off but with the holley its all right on the money and the trans worked well after that, but the damage had already been done. I wish I knew of that before

 

All I need to do right now is to getting it in running shape so my wife can start it while I am gone. If I can get the throttle down to a reasonable level I would be good. Right now I am not too concerned about the EGR until a latter date. It would be nice to have it hooked up but I dont know what part I would need or anything.

 

The wireties thing definatly works. Rig it up and she'll never know teh difference. Also make sure that teh TV cable is set properly/

 

I already adjusted the TV cable...that was the easy part. Zip ties....I have a bunch of them so I could do that to make it run for right now. Is there anything on the market that sells a kit to adjust the throttle cable? How about that third cable? I am not sure what that one does as I have not looked it up yet...too busy messing with everything else. Do you think I would be good running with out the EGR for awhile until I can get one that fits? Just needs to run enough so my wife can start it every now and again. You guys have been a big help with this. Giving me ideas of "how-to" and everything. If I can get this running it would be a great releif for me before I deploy. THX

 

I see in another thread that your still having problems. The ZZ4 intake is one of teh most complete out there, which is why I recommend it. With others, there may be not enough places to mount all the accesories. The ZZ4 has places to mount everything. In the pic below is where I would (did) put stuff. Im not sure whether that little hole in teh front is for one of the early CTS' or just for mounting a bracket. If its a blind hole tehn dont bother plugging it.

 

That TV cable can be decievingly easy to adjust and not porperly adjusting it is a very costly mistake. The cable should be set for MAXIMUM tenstion at WOT.

 

WOW!! U R the poop! Thanks for the very clear referance! I have everything except the vacuum-brake hooked up they way you have it. I will try to fix that tomorrow. Only question I have now is WOT? What is that? It's not a hard adjustment as there are several holes and the retaining clip is easy to move but what makes it hard it the throttle cable is still stuck leaving the TBI at like 1/2-3/4 open. Thanks so much for your help...AGAIN!

 

Mr Gasket and other brands sell a bracket kit made for a carb but it will work with the tbi if you bolt it the driver side rear adapter bolt. I had to grind off part of the lip on the back of it but it went on. Oh and its ajustable some what.

 

I will have to look into that after deployment. Just too much of a time crunch now. THX

 

I looked up the throttle cable and it does not adjust anywhere! It is a fixed length. Says that right in the book, no adjustment points. That really blows.....oh, em...still not hooked up yet, hopefully this morning everything will be good to go except I lost a couple of exhaust manafold bolts....well not me my buddy since I did not take them off he did. Now we cant find them, well, I cant find them since he cant help me anymore I guess its my problem now. Issue after Issue. Story of my life. I am going out here in a few mins. to start the process, all I have left is hook up the plug wires to dist, distributer and link throttle cable up oh air filter of course too. Wish me luck!

 

Now this next pic I am not sure where this goes. Alittle help PLEASE!!

 

And where does this plug too?

 

Does this look right?

 

I think I got this pic thing figured out finally. Ok, here is a front view to the whole thing. As you see I have no idea where the vacuum lines when for the front of the TBI and I showed where I hooked up the heater and temp sensor.

 

EDIT: Getting rid of unused pic

 

That's where I put my hvac (what you call master) line. That's the stock location to go off of that 90^ fitting. Dimented uses that for power brakes. I did that too but the fitting was too small and my power brakes sucked. I now have a fitting in the back of the holley adaptor that I installed for my power brakes.
The 2 front vacuum lines are for cruise control and the heat riser (thermac) device that's in the air cleaner housing. It operates the heat riser valve off the exhaust manifold. If you don't have 1 of those two things you can use it for the master/hvac.

 

I think the fitting on the #8 runner on mine was 3/8 NPT and im using a 3/8 in barbed elbo fitting. Seems to work as well as stock, at any rate. The little fitting he has pictured there would be way too small.

BTW, the booster line for the brakes is that hose coming off of that black canister (power brake booster) where the master cylinder is.

 

The stock booster DOES work for the hvac controls.
red, what you have circled is a 90 fitting and an adaptor (little plastic piece not even an inch long).
Remove the 90 rubber fitting and the plastic adaptor, then the line will fit onto the booster nipple. You haven't taken it apart far enough yet.
There is an electronic "valve" that normally uses that 90 rubber fitting... you don't need it!
As for the brake booster, 3/8 sound abour right. I don't like vacuum lines coming off the frong of my TBI so I've got everything out back except for the PCV. I've got the ability to datalog a bunch of the vacuum ports all syncronized, I just need to get a few more map sensors and I can do a good tech article.

 

Ok, here is a better pic of the front and you can see the brake booster line better. Right now the line is running nowhere as I have not had the time to run and get the right fitting yet. Also I highlighted the two vacuum lines in question, thanks for reminding me of the filter one as I did overlook that but as far as the second one? Thanks guys!

EDIT: I did run the middle vacuum to the PCV on the valve cover...was this right? I got confused with all the hoses running everywhere. Seems like endless miles of hoses to me and I am trying to learn to do this myself COMPLETELY one day with no help. Like I said......one day.

 

EDIT: Getting rid of another pic

 

That looks like the one way vacuum valve and other hardware for the power brake booster, which is the black metal thing behind the master cylinder. A vacuum rated hose will work fine in place of the hard line.

 

I dont remember how teh stock vacuum routing was. Once you ID all the vacuum lines, you can jsut route everything to whichever port is most convenient. Just remember that the vacuum line for the MAP needs to have clean dedicated vacuum. In other words, dont tee it off of something else. Hook it directly to the vacuum port.

 

Ok, that makes sence...I think that unidentified hose did go to the booster to intake...I think right below where the TBI bolted to the intake. Kwool, where is the MAP located at? I want to make sure that is straight. Hell, I think I can get this car up to par with out haveing to take it to a shop for me screwing it up. BTW you guys have been great helping me out with these issues I have been having. I wish I could help out others looking to go the ZZ4 route. Dimented, if you need any specific pics for anything to help others when this is done and running, just let me know and I would be glad to help out!

 

WAITUP, we got an issue here. I don't have a picture of a completely stock engine bay but I don't remember having a checkvalve (one-way valve) on the map sensor.
The MAP sensor in you're picture is going into the check valve that is ment for ONLY the hvac (the solinoids that control, vent, heat, defrost shudders).
The check valve keeps vacuum in that hvac circuit so that when you go WOT it doesn't close all the sudders!
The MAP sensor can go to the vac fitting at the back of the TBI. Nothing should be t-d or inline with that vacuum line.

 

Okay, I've now memorized the TBI vacuum routing, lol.
Here's a picture to help you with most of your questions.
Cruise control goes into the side of the hvac check valve. Hvac check valve goes into the 90^ fitting on the manifold near cyl#8. The brake booster goes into the front of the intake manifold. You have a few options with the brake booster since there isn't a fitting for that in the zz4 intake. First you can install it into the back of the Holley adaptor plate with a drill and tap for a 3/8" barb fitting. You can also just remove that 90^ fitting like dim did and a few others did. Another option is to T it into the PCV up front. All those options will work well.

 

Good eye, JP. Didnt even see that teh MAP was tied into that.

 

Again I must bow down before your greatness. You guys rule! I tried to start the car today to be let down by a ground on the P/S head. I placed the ground on and like majic the car tried to start! BUT, that wire was QUICK to get red as in HOT! I have the marks on my thumb and fingers if you want to see the burn marks...no joke. I dont know why it got that hot and I did not try to start it after that happened. BTW my flight got pushed back until early tuesday morning so I have an extra day or two to get this thing up to par. There were other connections that hooked up to that ground point that I thought were just grounds since they "fell" right there but I am not sure....Maybe loose??? Insight anyone?

Thanks again for the diagram. I am going to save that pic to my hard drive.

 

EDIT: cutting out some of these as they are slowing stuff down.

 

Which wire was it? There are 3 grounding points. There is the large wire that grounds teh engine and then there are grounds that go to the ecm, wire harness, and chassis in the rear of the engine. The heavy gauge wire that comes off the neg terminal needs to go right to the engine since the starter is the single largest load. If you mount it somewhere else itll possibly destroy the other grounds.

If it cranked as soon as you hooked up the ground then there is something wrong with how you wired up the starter. IIRC, the large center pole on the starter solenoid should have the large positive wire from the battery and all the smaller red/orange fused links should be hooked to that as well. The small pole on the solenoid nearest to the engine should have the black/red (purple?) solenoid wire thats run from the ign. switch. Take some pics of how you ran the wiring and we'll see if we can get that sorted out.