few l03 build questions part 2
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 1
From: Gladstone, Missouri
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 5.0L TBI (ebl inside)
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 lsd 10 bolt
few l03 build questions part 2
The first post end in a 305 vitality and performance discussion. I am keeping my 305 for a couple of reasons.
1) cost (new shortblock or used shortblock will cost more)
2) quality is fine now (good oil pressure and good compression)
3) have to build a lot of slow motors first
4) less addition cost on parts
5) slightly better fuel economy
6) time
Alright, so now I have bought my spare set of "187" heads, my 3 speed Black and Decker dremil, and a valve compressor. My standard abrasives deluxe porting kit is on the way. So now I just have to make some decisions. My goal budget without tools and tuning is roughly $250.
1) Are comp cams 981-16 springs and crane cams 99848-16 comparable?
2) Do I need new retainers and locks?
3) What should I do with the swirl ramp?
4) What should I do with the valve guide boss?
5) Considering I'll have around $160 on parts (intake gasket set, head bolts, head gaskets, tbi tune-up kit, valve springs, etc.), should I have any machine work done? I figured hot tanked, check for straightness, but what else would be the best bang for the buck?
1) cost (new shortblock or used shortblock will cost more)
2) quality is fine now (good oil pressure and good compression)
3) have to build a lot of slow motors first
4) less addition cost on parts
5) slightly better fuel economy
6) time
Alright, so now I have bought my spare set of "187" heads, my 3 speed Black and Decker dremil, and a valve compressor. My standard abrasives deluxe porting kit is on the way. So now I just have to make some decisions. My goal budget without tools and tuning is roughly $250.
1) Are comp cams 981-16 springs and crane cams 99848-16 comparable?
2) Do I need new retainers and locks?
3) What should I do with the swirl ramp?
4) What should I do with the valve guide boss?
5) Considering I'll have around $160 on parts (intake gasket set, head bolts, head gaskets, tbi tune-up kit, valve springs, etc.), should I have any machine work done? I figured hot tanked, check for straightness, but what else would be the best bang for the buck?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 1
From: Gladstone, Missouri
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 5.0L TBI (ebl inside)
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 lsd 10 bolt
Porting kit should arrive tomorrow and I should have 3 hours or so that I could dedicate to the heads. Can I polish the valves as long as I avoid the valve seat area?
Supreme Member
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 1
From: Ohio, near columbus
Car: 89 iroc-z
Engine: 305tpi
Transmission: wc-t5
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 3.08 posi (4 now)
1) Are comp cams 981-16 springs and crane cams 99848-16 comparable?
2) Do I need new retainers and locks?
3) What should I do with the swirl ramp?
4) What should I do with the valve guide boss?
5) Considering I'll have around $160 on parts (intake gasket set, head bolts, head gaskets, tbi tune-up kit, valve springs, etc.), should I have any machine work done? I figured hot tanked, check for straightness, but what else would be the best bang for the buck?[/QUOTE]
1.) dob' have time to look right now but, it's not very hard to figure out so you probably have that right.
2.) You don't necesarily need them depending on the size cam you are going to run (if mild you'd be fine if massive you wouldn't). Although my opinion is buy new considering the price of them.
3.) You just want to smooth them out, don't get rid of them completely.
4.) Smooth out the valve guide boss and make it much thinner (should be able to remove a decent bit of material in that area.
5.)I'd have them shave the head if their is any warpage at all, just enough to make sure the deck surface is perfectly flat, then i'd run a thin .015 gasket for a little more compression. If you have plans on revving it over 4500 rpms then have them machine for screw in studs or you will need to pin the stock push in studs, if more than 460-480 lift at the rockers have them cut down the guides to run a higher lift cam. If it were me i'd have them do a valve job while they are at it 3 angle that is (shouldn't cost more than 100-150 and it should improve flow by a sizable ammount, i think i remember reading that the 3 rd angle is usually worth 3-5% in head flow).
----------
Yes you can polish the valves but, it's about pointless, polishing anything in the heads other than combustion chambers is about pointless imo,
2) Do I need new retainers and locks?
3) What should I do with the swirl ramp?
4) What should I do with the valve guide boss?
5) Considering I'll have around $160 on parts (intake gasket set, head bolts, head gaskets, tbi tune-up kit, valve springs, etc.), should I have any machine work done? I figured hot tanked, check for straightness, but what else would be the best bang for the buck?[/QUOTE]
1.) dob' have time to look right now but, it's not very hard to figure out so you probably have that right.
2.) You don't necesarily need them depending on the size cam you are going to run (if mild you'd be fine if massive you wouldn't). Although my opinion is buy new considering the price of them.
3.) You just want to smooth them out, don't get rid of them completely.
4.) Smooth out the valve guide boss and make it much thinner (should be able to remove a decent bit of material in that area.
5.)I'd have them shave the head if their is any warpage at all, just enough to make sure the deck surface is perfectly flat, then i'd run a thin .015 gasket for a little more compression. If you have plans on revving it over 4500 rpms then have them machine for screw in studs or you will need to pin the stock push in studs, if more than 460-480 lift at the rockers have them cut down the guides to run a higher lift cam. If it were me i'd have them do a valve job while they are at it 3 angle that is (shouldn't cost more than 100-150 and it should improve flow by a sizable ammount, i think i remember reading that the 3 rd angle is usually worth 3-5% in head flow).
----------
Originally Posted by Gladstoneiroc
Porting kit should arrive tomorrow and I should have 3 hours or so that I could dedicate to the heads. Can I polish the valves as long as I avoid the valve seat area?
Yes you can polish the valves but, it's about pointless, polishing anything in the heads other than combustion chambers is about pointless imo,
Last edited by flaming-ford; Jul 21, 2006 at 07:30 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 1
From: Gladstone, Missouri
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 5.0L TBI (ebl inside)
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 lsd 10 bolt
Went to the one of the local machine shops in town and got some prices. I'm looking at 150 for a 3 angle valve job, 2 angle backcut valves, deck all surfaces, reassemble, and paint. I'm going to skip the paint because I've seen a whole bunch of their silver heads at work.
Hopefully, the porting kit will arrive tomorrow and I can get a few hours in. I have been reading the stand abrasives guide most of the night, so mentally I'm getting ready.
Hopefully, the porting kit will arrive tomorrow and I can get a few hours in. I have been reading the stand abrasives guide most of the night, so mentally I'm getting ready.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,775
Likes: 567
From: Cincinnati, OH
Car: '90 RS
Engine: 377 LSX
Transmission: Magnum T56
I will be repeating some info that Flaming has already covered.
If you are using the stock valves I would not bother with a valve job. The stock valves already have a decent back-cut on them and cutting them further won't yield results to justify the cost. I had my heads flowed stock and then with back cut valves and the difference was negligible to warrant the machine work cost and performance gain.
If you plan on running a cam with more than .480" lift you will want to machine the stock valve guides so that you can use positive valve seals on a cam with lift higher than .480". In addition, it would be wise to have the pressed in studs removed in favor of screw in units. This will cost some money $150+ but it well worth it if you are doing any cam swap.
I would use new retainers and new locks. The stock retainers have the rotating exhaust feature that you don't need with your new valvetrain set-up. L31 (vortec 350) retains are a good cheap replacement.
The comp 981 springs are great for cams around .460 to .500 lift. They are affordable and work great with the stock installation height. I have run them with 2 different cams (really good spring for any LT1 cam swap).
Refer to some posts by Fast355 for swirl port head porting tips. The key is to do a little "tweaking" without removing the ramp and or removing its function. I am still in the works of my swirl port head project so I must punt to Fast355 for the time being.
If you are using the stock valves I would not bother with a valve job. The stock valves already have a decent back-cut on them and cutting them further won't yield results to justify the cost. I had my heads flowed stock and then with back cut valves and the difference was negligible to warrant the machine work cost and performance gain.
If you plan on running a cam with more than .480" lift you will want to machine the stock valve guides so that you can use positive valve seals on a cam with lift higher than .480". In addition, it would be wise to have the pressed in studs removed in favor of screw in units. This will cost some money $150+ but it well worth it if you are doing any cam swap.
I would use new retainers and new locks. The stock retainers have the rotating exhaust feature that you don't need with your new valvetrain set-up. L31 (vortec 350) retains are a good cheap replacement.
The comp 981 springs are great for cams around .460 to .500 lift. They are affordable and work great with the stock installation height. I have run them with 2 different cams (really good spring for any LT1 cam swap).
Refer to some posts by Fast355 for swirl port head porting tips. The key is to do a little "tweaking" without removing the ramp and or removing its function. I am still in the works of my swirl port head project so I must punt to Fast355 for the time being.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 1
From: Gladstone, Missouri
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 5.0L TBI (ebl inside)
Transmission: T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.42 lsd 10 bolt
The biggest cam I plan ever running with this bottom end is LT1 or very similar. So I'll probably skip machining the valve guides and pressed in studs.
Should I just buy a set of 16 l31 retainers and locks?
Would crane's 99848 also work? I found a set with new retainers and locks for a pretty good deal, but I rather not stumble into problems.
Should I just buy a set of 16 l31 retainers and locks?
Would crane's 99848 also work? I found a set with new retainers and locks for a pretty good deal, but I rather not stumble into problems.
Last edited by Gladstoneiroc; Jul 22, 2006 at 12:27 AM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 0
From: Ga
Car: 91 RS
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Originally Posted by Gladstoneiroc
The biggest cam I plan ever running with this bottom end is LT1 or very similar. So I'll probably skip machining the valve guides and pressed in studs.
Should I just buy a set of 16 l31 retainers and locks?
Would crane's 99848 also work? I found a set with new retainers and locks for a pretty good deal, but I rather not stumble into problems.
Should I just buy a set of 16 l31 retainers and locks?
Would crane's 99848 also work? I found a set with new retainers and locks for a pretty good deal, but I rather not stumble into problems.
The Crane's would work fine. I am running the older 99849's. They work well with .480 lift and the Vortec retainers so you will be fine with the 99848's. (Especially for a "good deal").
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