I am curious about this, the TPI cars seem limited to the 13's, and 14's (With some exceptions) What about the TBI cars???? What are some of the best 1/4 miles times out there for daily driven TBI Thirdgens????? I saw a thread like this about TPI's.....Thanks, Tom

friend of mine using a short list and alot of tune was hanging with LS1s with gears and exhuast so low 13s?

423 Flywheel Horsepower @ 6,500 RPM. I have not had the engine in a car yet with this combo, but I bet it would do low 12s in a 3rd gen with traction.

Block = 1983 4-Bolt main 305 (14010203 casting), Bored .040" over, Torque plate honed, Decked .025", ARP Main Studs, Align Bored

Crank = Stock GM Forged Steel (3941188), Lightened, Smoothed, Knive Edged, etc for less windage, balanced with the entire rotating assembly

Bearings = Federal Mogul Speed Pro Coated

Rods = X casting rods, Parting lines ground down, Lightened, Balanced, Shot Peened, Weights Matched, ARP Wave Loc 3/8 Rod Bolts, Reconditioned

Pistons = Stock L69 Hypereutetic Replacements, Flattops with 4 valve reliefs, -6 cc, 0.00" in the hole

Rings - Total Seal Gapless rings

Compression = 10.7:1 with 54cc heads, Zero Decked block, .038" compressed head gasket.

Heads - Ported 2004 ZZ4 castings ("463"s), cleaned up in my garage, final "MAX EFFORT" port work performed by my buddy in his machine shop, .100" longer valves than stock (1.94/1.55 Under Cut Stems, Swirl polished), 5 angle valve job, Forget the exact spring but they are meant for the cam and .100" longer than stock valves, .600 lift compatible. I had to use longer than stock push rods as well. Machined heads for Comp Cams guide plates after opening up pushrod holes in heads. Gasket matched to a Felpro 1206 (1.34" x 2.21")

Head flow @ 28 in/h20 with a 3.75" bore simulator (engine has 3.776" bore).
Lift------Intake---Exhaust
.100------57-------57
.200------123------118
.300------177------162
.400------223------183
.500------229------188
.600------238------193

Camshaft = Comp retrofit roller XFI280-H13 (280/288 @ .006, 230/233 @ .050, .576/.570" lift with 1.6:1 rocker, 113 LSA, 106 ICL) Cloyes Double roller timing set

Intake Manifold = Holley Projection TBI for "OLD" style heads with the same bolt angle. This intake is a dual plane, high rise, with 2" bores. Gasket matched to the Felpro 1206 intake gasket

TBI = TBI unit off of a Heavy Duty 7.0 liter TBI truck, 68# injectors at 32 PSI, 2" bores, thinned throttle shafts, radiused the entrance to the bores, sitting on a 1" tall open center TBI spacer, 720 CFM @ 3.00 in/hg

Headers/Exhaust = Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4" x 3.5" meant for a mid 70s Camaro with a 350. 3" duals with X-pipe (not used on dyno)

Ignition = Stock GM HEI EST small cap distributer (computer controlled) with MSD coil, MSD Module, Moroso Ultra 40 wires, AC Delco Rapidfires @ .045"

Oil System = Moroso Blue Printed Oil Pump w/ Pickup, Moroso Steel Shaft, Moroso 5 quart pan, Moroso Oil Control Kit, Mobil 1 5w20, 70 PSI Z/28 spring

Crankcase Evac = LT1 style Electric AIR pump pulling a crankcase vacuum of about 6 in/hg.

ECM = RBob's EBL with lots of tuning. 34* total advance @ 2,800 rpm.

Dyno Numbers (all rounded to the nearest whole number for simplicity)

RPM------HP----TQ
2,400----147----323
2,600----166----336
2,800----185----347
3,000----207----362
3,200----223----365
3,400----238----368
3,600----263----384
3,800----281----388
4,000----301----395
4,200----322----403
4,400----347----414
4,600----363----414
4,800----378----413
5,000----382----401
5,200----393----397
5,400----401----390
5,600----410----385
5,800----417----378
6,000----421----369
6,200----422----357
6,400----423----347
6,600----419----333

That is 423 FWHP @ 6,500 and 415 ft/lbs @ 4,500.

uh wow dude, really determined to narrow the gap between 5 and 5.7 huh? lol.

daily driven 305 tbi, added posi but still 2.73's, 3 inch catback with bullet muffler, open element, AIR removed, a/c removed, no rear seat( ),egr malfunctioning. We believe it to have a cam but not for sure yet. Stock tune and 6 degrees of initial advance, best pass is a 15.65 at 88 mph. suspension is SHOT though, my leaf spring pickup handles better, so we shall see...mwahahaha. Wrenchapalooza 07' is getting closer! 14's on the stock longblock biatches!!

oh yes, my car is a 92 heritage edition 700 r4 trans.

14's are quite common in the TBI world with just bolt-on's.(some people get lucky before tuning,some don't) I think with some gears,rockers and fix the DAMN EGR problem (sorry I've had to many egr problems to list) you be really close to your goal Rockit.

i can't count on luck lol. my idea of fixing egr is to eliminate that mess from the back of my intake. i have a freshly painted intake im going that im going to get a billet plate made for to cover the hole. just have to tune the egr out as well. yea egr has nothing to do with WOT but a crappy running motor prob isnt helping to make the most of the 1/4 mile.

14's and i can make fun of my "f-body grandpa" a guy i met when i worked at dragway 42. the guy literally gave me a 92 camaro, not the one in my avatar, thats my baby. anyways he's running 14.5's with a tbi 350, couldn't break into the 14's with his 305 at all. he'll be pissed he lost .2 cents on his bigger motor to have my high mile 305 be about 4 tenths behind him in the quarter. course to thank him for the free car i might tune up his 350, i bet he can break 13's with all the crap he has on it, he plays with tire pressure, he should be playing with VE and timing, but computers have no sympathy for someone who is still impressed with radial tires vs bias plies.

what are you talkin about with rockers? 1.6 ratio? haven't heard anything about our rockers before.

Yes 1.6 roller rockers, I know they made a big differance for me.The one's I have are in my sig.

fast,

where can I order that crankshaft from? Can you get it at the autoparts stores?

Bill

How did those 1.6 rockers affect your motors driveablitlty? Did it harm anything without a tune? Noticable power increase? I'm debating 1.6s myself, though I have a cam in line for the future, so 1.6s may be overkill.

That crank is a two piece rear seal and has the same casting as the L82 corvette cranks of the mid 70s to early 80s. The crank described above was the factory crank for my 305. I do not know where you would source another. My guess would be another Canadian built 3/4 ton Van/Truck.

Fast355, all I can say is "DAMN DUDE", im impressed, cant wait to hear about the results....I got rid of my AC today, and doing the Air soon..It gets storonger each day LOL.....Thanks to all for the replys, Tom

Rockit, 15.65's with 2.73's aint bad...Thats the gear I have also (Damn the luck) where did you find your posi??? Mine is open, and , no sir, I dont like it...lol...Tom

The rockers didn't effect my drivability at all,in fact it seemed alot better as afar as all around power.

my posi? my dad is the king sheeit at finding just what you need. he ran onto a trans am rear end and i had the kids in the auto tech class swap in the diff when i was still in highschool.all in all because of my dad i've had 8 camaro's in the past five years, all parts cars for my 92. got the car for 1500 and it looks pretty swey these days.

yea im okay with the 15.65 since its stock but its a camaro and i def need to step up the pace. all my money spent on the car has been in paint and body work and a sound system i didnt really need, could have hit 13's a long time ago. knew i needed to step up when my truck outhandled the car!

my lil truck is the shiznit, 91 nissan hardbody that outruns 240sx's, nissan builds crappy american sports cars but a mean lil pickup!

Could I swap in some RR 1.6 and not have to do anything else? I have stock motor.....I heard you can put RR in but the next thing you want to do is the rest of the valvetrain.

my lil truck is the shiznit, 91 nissan hardbody that outruns 240sx's, nissan builds crappy american sports cars but a mean lil pickup!




Your truck never met my 240 which I might add is a very good sports coupe. Not too mention Nissan makes a great product as well.

Kaos: 240's have potential if you have at least 3 zeros in your budget. i hung out on ka-t.org and 240sxforums.com for awhille, nissan builds strong sheeit however the hp to weight ratio just isnt there, or the bang for buck which is f'd up since i consider nissan to be the best in that arena(japanese). if you consider a used sr20 swap to get 220 hp costs nearly as much as a GMPP crate engine that bolts in making 290 hp nissans don't add up. RB's still get props for being uber cool tho.
the 240 i took out seemed stock except for wheels and tires, all i have is 235/50/16 runflat potenzas (yes on my truck). no a/c no p/s manual tranny, no freakin options at all, it prob ways like 2600 lbs, and thats why a 240 sx owner cried that day!

You'll need tall valve covers for the full roller rockers.

The centerbolt valve covers will clear full roller rockers just fine. Just make sure that you get the narrow, self aligning style for centerbolt heads.

Hey Fast,
Is there a post showing the difference in 1.5', and 1.6's...I mean like on a dyno...How much do you think they are worth with no other mods???? Thanks man, Tom

oh and not to dwell but nissan does build some swey a$$ cars just not in america. hence i said a crappy american sports car. in stock form the 240 isn't really a contender vs an fbody, my lil ka24 I4 weighs as much as a small block wi aluminum heads! i almost got a 350z but really, 25,000 for a car that runs 14's on premo fuel? i can do better in my f body with half the money.
Its more fun having a car the other guy thinks he's got beat for sure. Ask Fast355, his van would make me cry!

My buddy (Astro ROB) we call him that because he has an Astro and his name is ROB but.....his van I bet would kill Fast355's van....not trying to start anything but this things bad. Has a BLOWN 540 RUNNING 18PSI. LMAO. ON STREET TIRES.....HE DRIVES THAT THING AROUND. WTF HE MUST BE CRAZY!!! Oh and its a chop-top. LMAO. chopped 5 inches and has been gutted and tons of goodies. Also has a vega with a blown 454 in it. Just saying there is some crazy vehicles out on THE ROAD

Wow, you think a van with a blown big block will beat an N/A small block?

??????Hey I was just saying. Didnt even know the guy had a small block in it...

Dave Jarvis has a Small block in his van.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqkQ-wtUH6A

Dont get me wrong, I love my roller rocker and all, but they keep coming loose and it is not the nut I dont think, I think my motor is tired and its pulling the studs out of the heads!

Some of the BS would stop if there were REAL 1/4 mile times and RWHP numbers/charts...

nah there will always be BS, I suppose your key word there is "some." I think that's the reason people here seem to respond very well to Fast355, he brings the hard numbers and I personally like it, its a shame none of them are in thirdgens.

If anyone wants to see the real times of some TBI cars, just look at TonyC's sig and look at the TBI Time Registry.

True. But I've yet to see him post RWHP numbers or 1/4 mile times from a track (not Gtech)... I'm not on here all the time though...

fast has my vote, guy knows fuel injection inside and out. he's def one of the knights of the roundtable around here along with RBOB among others. Performance in this forum bases cmopletely around engine management and he's got it DOWN. from what ive read he tunes difficult combos for fun, most of us don't even get tuning a stock combo.

had plans to dyno this fall and take to strip but the retune with EBL install got in way. as did the new cam that caused lean WOT on WB all last summer. should have all sorted out and do in both in spring.

I want to know what hasn't been RWHP or engine dyno and from a track (1/8 or 1/4). Hell I don't even own a Gtech!

Where did these numbers come from, I'm sorry but if you say DD2000 they mean very very little IMO...

You know a DYNO, like you mount the engine too, hook the engines flywheel too, etc. I even have an abreviated harness and fuel system that I use to start TBI engines on an engine stand.

Dyno numbers like the ones posted with the combo above. Last time I checked the various softwares gave power output every 500 rpm, lol.

I paid about $350 to get the engine dyno'd (friend of a friend type of deal). Spent the day out there with my laptop, prom burner, EBL and a wideband hooked up. All the dyno's sensors were hooked up too. Peak power was made with 33* of timing and an A/F ratio of 13:1. EGTs were climbing rapidly at the end of each pull. As the EBL richened the mixture to 12.4:1 (PE AFR Decay) the EGTs leveled out.

DD2000 is a VERY USEFUL tool when provided the correct information. Engine Analyzer is a more expensive but more accurate step above that.