After a month of handing my GM tech buddy wrenches on and off in our spare time (he did all the real work) and a year on this board I finally got my 350 swap completed. It started right up. So far no problems, Idle ok, cooling very well even though only one fan hooked up and engine seems to have monster torque. Have about 200 miles on it and I havent gotten on it yet so don't know limits. Breakin in a new clutch too, so going easy. Scan tool shows its a little rich at some RPM's but I think cop chip is ok for now.Will play with FP as necessary.

Just going to drive it for a while and then do/have done a custom chip. Then drive a while longer and replace stock TBI and edelbrock TBI manifold with
SNFLU's unit or a 2" GM TBI and carb manifold
and then reburn chip and or do whatever
wild s*** you guys come up with for TBI induction.

There is NO WAY I could have done this sucessfully without the help from the people on this board. You guys ROCK!!!
thanks to all.

Check my sig for new mods.......bob

------------------
91 camaro RS convert,GM crate 350 with LT1 cam,edelbrock 6085 heads,9.5 :1 comp edelbrock TBI intake, 65# injectors, GM cop chip,dual fan conversion,
ultimate TBI mods,TBI spacer,SLP 1 5/8 headers,
3"cat back,Flowmaster,
T-5, centerforce 2 clutch, 3.42 torsen posi,alston SFC's,Global West LCA relocation brackets, edelbrock STB

 

the more i think, i may build some of the 2"ers first. still waiting on alum stock to get in so the machinist can start cuttin away.

 

Glad one other person has found this site useful.
p.s. Don't listen to Kevin91z, he talks **** about TBI. Honestly, I can't figure it out, every post with TBI blah blah he answers with TPI etc. Go figure, he wants me to get 30mpg with my 300+hp setup . I think I can do it, I just need to tune it. I'm getting 27mpg right now and that is with a stock 89 caprice eprom .
Please post timeslips when you get around to it.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

Maybe Kevin beilves so much in TPI over TBI because he dynoed one engine, one with TBI and one with TPI and the Tuned Port injected engine made a sh*t load more hp AND torque...which is suppose to be one of TBI's pros over TPI according to some people on the board. I beilve TPI is better than TBI and so does GM for performance reasons. Is it more expensive? Hell yes it is. But with quality comes money.

Oh and congrats on the engine swap man. Best of luck in the future and bring us back some timeslips so we can see what it can do.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited May 26, 2001).]

 

call whipple and ask them which they think is better. they just built a 500,000 dollar engine dyno. heres a nice quote to keep you thinkin

Engine Masters
Summer 2000 vol. 4 # 1.
pg. 83

".....through pulling all of these different engine combos on this high-tech dyno, whipple has learned a ton about port injection versus throttle body injection locations. they've learned that each engine needs a critical velocity point at the port to make peak power, not simply a lot more velocity. These guys have seen the advantages to entering fuel both up top and in the ports, learning that carburetor apps work suprisingly good, with suck long time to vaporize fuel. also when a cam is "hot" and vacuum is low at idle, most systems work better with throttle body fuel injection. the calmer engines with small cams like port injection much better. ...."


this issue also has holley vs. holley.
tbi vs carb.

guess who won. guess why i bought it

 

I am true to TBI because its Simple and cheaper but before the TPI guys put it down they must remember to each their own. My brother and I had a KILLER TPI trans am and the torque was unbelieveable considering it had 2.77 gears.....But I love my TBI also...

They are all F-Body we must beat all others who come from the outside..... :=)

Brian

------------------
1989 Camaro RS

305 .030 over
Vortech heads milled to 58cc...Performer RPM intake....LT4 cam..Crane Gold rockers...FastChip custom chip...ALum. Driveshaft...3.73 gears...underdrive pullys...Rebuilt 700R4 with Vette Servo and B&M shift Kit...MSD ignition...A/C Delete No SMOG junk....1997 SS leather interior...B&M Shifter LETS PLAY FORD!!

 

Its all I can do to stay off this thing. It really wants to pull hard, but I have a hunch that it will run out of steam around 5,000 RPM.Two 20+ year GM techs have driven it and there comments were, "torque monster" but they didn't say fast and these guys work on and drive all of chevy's best and fastest( c-5's SS's etc). Well, a bigger TBI, carb manifold and the right chip should take this project as far as it can go. Will let you know if they say ever say "fast" cause thats as close as I am gonna get to a strip. Should have bought a G-tech for comparason but just didn't have the cash.
Thanks again you guys.........bob



------------------
91 camaro RS convert,GM crate 350 with LT1 cam,edelbrock 6085 heads,9.5:1 comp, edelbrock TBI intake, 65# injectors, GM cop chip,dual fan conversion,
ultimate TBI mods,TBI spacer,SLP 1 5/8 headers,
3"cat back,Flowmaster,
T-5, centerforce 2 clutch, 3.42 torsen posi,alston SFC's,Global West LCA relocation brackets, edelbrock STB

 

My '85 TPI 305 seemed to have alot more low end torque and quicker throttle response than my '91 TBI 305. I was always accidentally breaking the tire (one-legger) loose when pulling away from a dead stop. Of course the '85 was mildly modded and had 3.27s. I think that once I start figuring out the TBI, I'll get similar if not greater performance from it over the TPI.

------------------
'91 Camaro RS - dark red metallic - '91-'92 Z28 wheels - leather - all power options (except power seat) - t-tops - Clarion head unit - Pioneer 4way 200watt 6x9s - Rockford Fosgate Punch amp and 2 Fosgate 12" subs - Edelbrock open element w/ K&N filter - Random Technology highflow cat - some free mods, more coming soon...

 

TPI - designed for torque with a 305, works well with a mild 350. Get more than 300hp and show me ONE stock TPI setup that will give me more power and torque over my current TBI setup. Yeah, that's what I thought. I have vortec heads so I can't exactly swap on a TPI kit but if I could I would do it and prove that TPI has it's limits. Yes the idea is great for the street, but the long runners hurt you up top! I know not a lot of guys like talking about OTHER cars but let me talk about the TPI setup in the ford SHO (yamaha engine). They have 2 sets of runners, long tube (like chevy) for low end torque but then they have vacuum activated short runners to give it top end above 4000rpm when their secondaries open. Without them those cars wouldn't make 220hp and would take longer to rev up to their hp peak. The chevy design has advantages but for the most part it's limited and takes lots of money to get it just right. TBI is like a carb only with fuel injectors so it's got pros and cons. Like TPI, TBI needs to be matched up to the right engine. You can't take a stock TBI intake/setup and swap on a TPI and say it's better. NO **** it's better, the stock TBI intake is pathetic. Give me a carb intake/adaptor plate, and large bore TB, then we'll see which setup makes more power . Has anybody done THAT kind of test yet? I'll be the first to admit that TBI in stock form is crap, but I won't be so easy to dismiss it as a performance intake system. How many carbs can you adjust fuel curves from your computer and idle control?
I will try and hunt down the TPI vs. TBI post, It's probably lost somewhere, but it was really good info for both sides. I understand we're both on the "same team" but sometimes I can't stand how arrogant some of the TPI guys were and how easy the newbie TBI guys get "swayed" to thinking TBI is useless. How many times have you seen TBI guys to carb and gain maybe 10hp....FROM THE INTAKE MANIFOLD SWAP...NOT THE ACTUAL CARB!
Sorry, gotta vent . Now go get them imports and mustangs .

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

JP, thats exactly where I am headed. I am gonna stay with the stock TBI albiet with 65# injectors and edelbrock TBI intake and then go for the set up you are talking about.
I will definitly do a before and after with a stop watch at least to give everyone an
idea of the difference. I hope you are right, cause than I will have a can of kick *** under the hood............bob

------------------
91 camaro RS convert,GM crate 350 with LT1 cam,edelbrock 6085 heads,9.5:1 comp, edelbrock TBI intake, 65# injectors, GM cop chip,dual fan conversion,
ultimate TBI mods,TBI spacer,SLP 1 5/8 headers,
3"cat back,Flowmaster,
T-5, centerforce 2 clutch, 3.42 torsen posi,alston SFC's,Global West LCA relocation brackets, edelbrock STB

 

Cool! You guys are giving me hope! I was thinking of swapping in a TPI intake. Now I think I'll see how far this TBI thing will go.

------------------
'91 Camaro RS - dark red metallic - '91-'92 Z28 wheels - leather - all power options (except power seat) - t-tops - Clarion head unit - Pioneer 4way 200watt 6x9s - Rockford Fosgate Punch amp and 2 Fosgate 12" subs - Edelbrock open element w/ K&N filter - Random Technology highflow cat - some free mods, more coming soon...

 

If your happy with the swap then F*** everyone else.

Submessage: port your TB intake to 2 inches and polish and port intake to match heads.

And one other thing. If your GM guys say "torqe monster" then they're impressed with what you've done so far.

Cool.

 

TBI is fine. Just takes PROM development matched with great intake/head/CR/exhaust combo, like any other sort of GOOD motor... Time helps, too.

JP, you aughtta have your car chassis dynoed to get a basline before your major PROM work starts. How did/do the plugs look, BW?

 

FB, I'm signed up for the dyno at Tims (NJspeeder) East Coast F-body Nationals at E-town. I get 3 runs, I hope to have a few different chips programmed so I can swap and tell everybody what kind of a difference I got with programming my own eproms. Stock 91 eprom vs 2 custom ones.
About checking my plugs: They're dark for sure, car was running so rich, I haven't had a chance to touch my car for the past 2 weeks. It's been in a sitting in it's comfy garage. I got a tool set from my father for a b-day gift, problem is they sent it to my home in NJ! So I went on ebay and ordered some offset box end wrenchs for $15 (4) and I'm going to just use the 5/8" to check the plugs when I get her back on the road. I need to check my 02 sensor, I think that's why it was running like crap after the car warmed up, I wasn't getting a ses light so I don't know what's going on, hopefully it's something simple.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website