I've read some of the older posts about putting the vortech intake on and it sounds from those like that would be a piece of cake. and from the way gmpartsdirect.com talks about the fast burn heads they are some very nice heads, and for the price they should be. Not that I can afford the heads any time soon, but the question is will the vortech intake be a worthwhile one to get to accomodate for the bad *** heads later on?

 

What will you be putting the intake on right now? And it's spelled vortec unless you are talking about the supercharger, then I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Simple: Vortec heads are better for the money than fastburns and they actually produce more hp under 3000rpm in many a test engines! Fastburn = waste of money for street car. Vortec intakes are superior to older designs. They have a taller velocity runner and an awesome design, definatly the future for small blocks.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

Chevy's designs are awesome, too bad MOPAR did the tall skinny ports and the 18* heads a couple decades before them

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS.6

Got Beach?

 

Yes, I meant Vortec, not the supercharger.
I think I am going to be making a trip to the junk yard tomorrow to see if I can pick up a set off a truck.
Wouldn't the trucks also have the TBI intake manifold that would fit too?

 

The Fast Burns are much better heads. If you decide to use a nice cam with the Vortec heads, you need to do some MAJOR work to them, like screw-in studs, machined valve seal lands, machined pads for the springs, new springs/retainers/locks, better valves too.

But, for mellow cams, like a generic .420"/.442" lift cheapo Summit cam, the Vortec heads are ideal!!! 322hp with that cam, 9.1:1 CR and Performer Vortec intake and carb, shorty headers, HEI. Now THAT is value. But to approach 350hp cheaply and durably, the Vortecs will surprise you. The castings don't like high-range long-term heat cycles, either, that's why the GMPP Catalog says the "castings are not as durable" as some other head... bow-tie, maybe? I own both Vortec's and FastBurns, I like them both. The Vortec's need $300 of labor and parts, though, so count that in. Ie, $750 for NICE Vortecs OR $1000 for Superior FastBurns (lightweight sodium filled valves, springs, studs) with better flowing ports. Low-end suffers a bit, but not enough to not buy the heads... I'll trade 25lbft down low for 50lbft/50hp up top in a High Performance motor any day. But, if this is for a truck or a mellow small-cammed street car , now that's another animal which like Vortec Out of the box.

I like to use the Vortec's OOB because it truly adds to their value... That means mellow cams but you can get quite a bit of hp/toruqe for cheap. Unfortunately, even an XE Comp Cam with less than .450" lift will need new springs as the OEM ones are too weak/low seat pressure...

[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 16, 2001).]

 

listen to me, I know.

I have a comp XE with more than .450 lift on the STOCK springs. My combo puts #s down and has seen nearly 6500 RPM without failure.



------------------
91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 224/230 duration and .477/.480 lift. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, 3000rpm stall converter. Edelbrock TES, 3inch cat, flowmaster with single 2.5 inch exit.
Best time yet to come
13.0 @ 107- N/A
12.5@ 117- 100HP Nitrous

This is a Pic of my car in race trim www.tbns.net/billyjay/camero.jpg

Yes I know how to spell camaro- so dont ask. I didnt make the link

 

Where'd you get the heads??? I thought the OEM springs coil bind at .462" lift and there is NO way the 80# seat pressure OEM valve springs can run to 6500rpm and still close the valves, ie valve float. Just no way...???

What carb you got? That is a nice combo, Vortec heads do like the Comp XE268 Cam but the springs in the heads I had couldn't take the lift. I checked...


[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 16, 2001).]

 

I dont know Broker, the springs are stock vortec springs. I got the heads used for $25.00 (not a typo) and bought new L31 springs from the dealer (they were very cheap I remember). No B.S., I have spun this engine to nearly 7000rpm on accident and I shift it at 6200RPM at the track. The valves float at anything past my shift point.

Im using a speed demon 750 with mechanical secondaries. I bought this carb because my lame carter cashed out and I wanted to upgrade for the last time keeping in mind that if I decide to throw on the roots blower in my garage I wont have to buy another one.

 

That's a peach... Did you check to see if your coils bind and/or your spring retainers hit the valve seals? Maybe your heads are already machined??? Do you still have the pressed-in studs with no guideplates?

 

Thanks for the advice guys.

I am running a stock setup (minus open air, cat-back & 180* stat) with machined vortec heads and the vortec tbi intake what kind of performance gains could I expect?

 

I didnt check anything, I still have the press in studs. The heads were straight off a 98 Tahoe (R motor), no machining. I dont think Im the only guy on this board with the same deal....Oh well

 

I didnt check anything, I still have the press in studs. The heads were straight off a 98 Tahoe (R motor), no machining. I dont think Im the only guy on this board with the same deal....Oh well

 

Here's a hot tip for ya guys, Get the Manley 22410 springs & 23652 steel retainers.
These fit right on the vortecs w/no mach. they have 130# on the seat 320# open and will take .510 lift and still have .040 away from the seal. Oh yeah, and they coil bind @ 1.150 The retainers give you .050 up so at .510 lift you are still at 1.211 when installed at 1.781 (that's where they end up with no shims) you can go to 1.750 and still be alright. If you use self aligning rockers you can skip machine work altogether.

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
SPDC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies

 

Great tip Don!

------------------
91 RS 5.0 TBI....LT4 cam....Edelbrock headers....3"Dynomax exhaust....5spd.... 3.08.....Ultimate tbi....afpr...ZR 255-50's...Koni's

 

So the Manley springs and retainers will support up to .510 lift, and if you add self aligning rockers theres no machine work ... at all? Hmmmmmmm thanks

------------------
Chuck Kulchar
1991 RS
Open Element w/K&N
3" cat and Force II cat-back

 

how are those springs for stock TPI, TBI heads?

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS.6

Got Beach?

 

pretty sweet tip don, have to remember that if I change cams.

 

Question: I like that tip about the larger springs BUT won't those springs eventually pull out the press in studs? I've read a few places that if you do anything to the vortec heads, go with screw in studs.
Does this sound right? If so, then wouldn't it just make sence to front $100 in machine work to get the screw in studs and valve seal machined?

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

Jon:
I think that would only be a problem if you went with a solid lifter cam and dual springs. I have been running an LT-1 cam and 1.65 rockers on a pair of ported 193 truck heads with no problems. (same springs of course).

 

Get screw-in studs. Any higher than 300lb spring at high lifts will pull a stud eventually. trust me, if it happens to you, you will be very unhappy and have a terrible time driving home... Might take one month. Might take two years, but when it happens, OUCH!

IMO, 100 bucks is cheap insurance to do something right... Change the valve seals while you are there... New or not...

 

Ok if you,don't want to spend the $100 bucks you can get a handful of roll pins and drill thru the stud bosses and studs and drive the pins in to lock the studs in. That works: I have done it for years.

 

That works, too. Twice as much work, though, and if a stud breaks down the road though, though, have fun...

But, if you can do the frill/roll-pin thing, you can surely drill, tap and install the screw-in studs yourself. Not very difficult. Drill press is VERY helpful, though not necessary...



[This message has been edited by fast_broker (edited October 24, 2001).]

 

[QUOTE]

if you can do the frill/roll-pin thing, you can surely drill, tap and install the screw-in studs yourself. Not very difficult. Drill press is VERY helpful, though not necessary...

Would a mill be the best to do this on and do you have to spot face the stud boss on the head?

------------------
91 RS 5.0 TBI....LT4 cam....Edelbrock headers....3"Dynomax exhaust....5spd.... 3.08.....Ultimate tbi....afpr...ZR 255-50's...Koni's

 

I was always wondering about the drill tap thing. I understand that the drill holes need to be lined up but do I need to use a machine to tap them? Can I just use a hand crank style? I mean, does the tap 'walk' away from the hole so that it isn't a perfect straight up and down?

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

a lot of the tapping done at work is done by hand. You just need to make sure you start it straight. As long as you don't go down too far, you can try over a couple times to get it going straight.

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS.6

 

Comp Cams sells the tool to make the job easy, $26 bucks. It helps you pull out the old studs and then holds the tap straight while you turn it, you don't even need to drill the holes they are already the right size. However you will have the mill the stud bosses down about .340 unless you use the studs with no hex head. ( Don't get the one from Jegs (Proform) it's no good I tried it, spacing is off by .045)

------------------
Chronologically challenged. But still kicking!
'92 CAMARO RS
305 TBI 5/spd (now TPI)
B4C Alt.
Cam change:TRW 198/210 ,450/.460 114 LSA
Stock TBI manifolds
'85 IROC Ex.
14.94-92.00 mph
SPDC base and "350" Vortec coming soon!
'69 camaro-BB/Lenco,1050 dominators, /Pump Gas/no drugs 8.97-150+/3200lbs.
SoCal Thirdgen F-Bodies