I am going to be using some 454 injectors in my GM pod. I need to figure out if I bought the right injectors.


Application was 1991 Chevrolet C1500 4x2, 7.4L (454 SS I assume). This was the cheapest I could find.

Brand: BWD
Part Number: 57229Z
Price: $64 each (new, no core needed) at the local parts store (July 2009).

The injectors say "RIN-554" and "9103" on top.

This thread:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...i-buildup.html

...says the later 454's used the higher pressure regulator. So I need to make sure the injectors I bought are the earlier ones that deliver 454 volumes of fuel at the lower pressure. According to the part store website, the part number stayed the same on 454 injectors 1987 through 1993, changing in 1994. That's encouraging.

Can anybody confirm that these are the right ones?

 

This is off crossfire forum. Not sure if correct.

Application / ml/cyc / BWnew / BW reman / GM OE # / Standard

454 2 bbl truck (1989) / 124 / 58021 / 27626 / 17111784, 17111865 / TJ11 Red/Red

454 2 bbl truck (1992) / 129 / 57229 / none / 17091045 / 17091046, 17091046, 17112557, 17112567, TJ27 Blue/Black

90# injectors are Blue/Black
80# injectors are Red/Red

 

Thanks Ronny, based on that info and assuming 57229Z = 57229, these look like they may be the 90 lb/hr injectors. Cool.

 

These 454 injectors are working well for me. I am running them at 20 psi with a TPI fuel pump and adjustable pressure regulator cover & spring off ebay from some guy in Austin, TX.

 

Lets clarify. Early 7.4L used a large injector and did the later model year. There is a third injector that 7.4L used in 1994-1995 and maybe 1996. It was a 45 lb injector at 32 lbs-36 lbs fuel pressure. that is the reference Fast made to the alternative FPR. That spring would be too much for the large injectors unless under boost and then how to control idle? I use a 80 lb inj at 20 lbs FP and VAFPR pulls it down to 11 lbs at idle(1.7msec PW)

 

Ronny,

I am still in the tuning process. Right now I'm using EBL with narrow band o2 sensor. The thing doesn't seem to idle too badly. Right now it is set at 850 rpm, but i'm going to try for 750 tonight.

It's a little lumpy, but it should be with 227/223 duration at .050" on 110 LSA. It's a lunati #60103. Dynamic compression is 8.1:1

How would I know if going to VAFPR would help me? What symptom or indication would tell me this? So far, things seem to be going well.

I guess PW=pulse width. Is there a certain value I need to be watching out for? Like don't go under X msec?

Thanks.

 

Lock fueling in synch. Disallow asynch fueling

Idle OL. That permits a richer A/F and larger PW

Larger injectors like a reduction on proportional gains. I think I reduced about 50%

I idle at 1.7 msec at 38 MAP at 825 RPMs and 12.5/1 AF manual trans

VAFPR should improve idle quality and throttle response.

 

Ronny, thanks for the info.

I have read posts where OL and synch were mentioned. But it seems to be that the participants know how to implement these features.

As mentioned, I'm using EBL and I will re-read the readme file tonight. So far I've set the timing tables, done several VE learns, raised PE TPS threashold for learning, set inj constants, rpm limiters, and probably a few other things. I've been seeing steady improvements so far.

But I don't know how to implement OL or synch.

It would be a natural response to tell me to use the search function...and I will do that anyway, but I'd like your thoughts, as well. Are there any threads on here that you're aware of that are instructive on using those features?

BTW, I don't know my PW at idle, but I idle at 850 rpm, 60-ish MAP in park, closed loop with some lope (sounds good to my ears). EBL WUD indicates injector duy cycle, but I haven't noticed PW displayed.

Thanks again.

 

OL idle is a flag "OPL Idle"?

Or to run OL all the time set the threshold for CL at a very high value for coolant. Whe I did so fuel mileage suffered.

disallow asynch by asynch trans high set 0
low set 0

pulse width at idle is in your WU datalog 5 bars from right sPW or aPW. synch and asynch

 

I didn't make any of the suggested changes yet. 2 pics are attached - the first is right after startup. The next one is a couple minutes later when it warmed up enough to go into closed loop.

In both cases I notice that it is showing synch PW not asynch PW. Do I still need to make the change to force synch that you were talking about?

Looks like my PW goes as low as the 1.3-1.4 range in closed loop at idle. So is that low enough to be a problem & require the vacuum reference on the FPR?

Thanks.

 

Looks normal to me. #1 is 96F. No IAT control I see(I wonder if that can be added?).

Idle 66 kpa? wow that seems awfully high. What are cam specs at .05 ?

You are OL and 1.6 msec on pulse width. Same as me. NB02 sensor shows a bit rich which is normal for OL cool coolant.

#2 126F. you should not be closed loop and you are. You must have that setting to flip CL set < 126F. Coolant based change. I guess saves on fuel that way. but drivability on cool start??

o2 is 125mv? awfully low. That does not add up to 128 BLM? That puzzles me. I would expect 450mv - or +.

Any MALF codes (ie. nb02)?

 

Thanks for the comments. The main 2 questions are if this range of PW is ok? (1.3-1.6) I think you are saying yes. And do I need to mess with locking it in synch (since it's staying in synch anyway)?

That IAT reading never moves. I probably have bad sensor. I should look into that.

Cam is big for TBI at 227/233 degees@ .05 lift on 110 degree LSA. Lunati 60103, which is a voodoo 268 (non-roller). Cam is really more of a carb cam - but I knew that going in and I like it so far. So that is why the MAP reading is so high at idle.

I don't recall changing the setting for CTS related to going into CL. I'll look and see what I have there tonight.

My o2 sensor reading fluctuates rich/lean at idle. This screen capture caught it as lean as I have ever seen it. I thought the fluctuation was normal - correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Quote: The main 2 questions are if this range of PW is ok? (1.3-1.6) I think you are saying yes. And do I need to mess with locking it in synch (since it's staying in synch anyway)?

It is OK if you are pleased with idle quality then leave asynch capability, asynch is good for PE I hear. If in logs you see it flip asynch at idle then plot that to any idle funkyness. 1.6 I think is fine. Not sure on 1.3. I have 80 lbs inj at 10.5 lbs FP with vafpr at 39 map. I am rock solid 1.7 msec never moves.

NB02 swing is as expected. It does that. You can tighten up swing if you care to. I did. I also enrichened CL same time.

my cam is similar 224/230 BUT I am 114 LSA. 100LSA will be challenging to say the least. Read up on reversion. Idle CL may not be the best idea. I think NB will see unburned 02 and add fuel at idle. OL idle and OL (<20 mph) may be helpfull. Maybe someone here has experience with that size cam.

 

Thanks again. My cam is actually 110 degrees LSA (not 100) but yes, 110 is still tight for EFI.

Yeah, I know the cam is a little big. I think I talked to you some time ago here when I was picking my cam. You have the XE268H right? People were saying that one was big-ish and I know the Lunati I have has even a little longer overlap.

Comments about my cam choice:

This is not going to be a daily driver, just a friday or saturday night drive-in special. So a smooth idle wasn't required or desired. It is definately noticeable, which is what I wanted. I haven't finished tuning it obviously, but the idle is not a problem in park. I get a random abrupt stall at idle in drive while stopped - But I will address that in a different thread. Right up to the moment it stalls it idles fine (in the eye of this beholder) in drive. Go figure.

I do get a little surging if it's in a higher gear at low vehicle speed (rpm below 1500 maybe 2000). I expect that to be reduced with the 2200-2600 stall converter that is going in next. (stock converter right now)

But the midrange - upper rpm torque is awesome. One of these days I'll figure out how to post a clip of it idling.

 

Log the stall. Check the inj pw right before it dies. see if it flips asynch or the PW drops a lot.

surging is an issue with me < 10 mph with no load. surge buck. I up shift to load engine. I might experiment with SA during event. surging is also reduced by reducing prop gains with 80 or larger injs. smaller injs at higher press might be better than the opposite. Also keep your VE tables on fat side. Make sure you do not have > 136 in those cruise cells. Again addressing the SA during event. Not sure which way to go on SA. adding + or - 3 deg may produce a desired effect.

I thnk adding EBL improved my tune and drivability. maybe adding VAFPR did as well.