I hear crickets..............

TOM

The title of the tread should be changed to "new 122#/hr @30psi injectors".

Sorry guys, missed the responses. We're flowing about 25% more at lower pressures. If that has value to you, then there ya go. I think it's more than 122, but we have to test it. I'm going with RBOB's number.

The reason I did this was someone asked me to.

They didn't want to run higher fuel pressures and wanted to deliver more fuel.

I told them I'd take a run at it and see what we can do. Did a little research came up with these injectors, and tested with RBOB what they can do.

Our original expectation was that we could flow 140lbs, however, as RBOB pointed out it's probably lower than that. I'm not 100% sure that's the case until we test given the new info I got from RBOB.

If this turns out there's no market for these, fine.

I was trying to help someone out, thought maybe there's a niche, but maybe there isn't. You guys tell me.

This was strictly an R&D project to develop something new to see what we can get to. Well, we did. That is completely different than market viability.

You guys will tell me better than I can tell you. If you can get over 122lbs at 30 lbs does that have value? If the answer is no, that's fine. But we didn't know what the results were going to be going into it.

I'm not going to try to sell something on bull **** and magic you don't need. I'll tell you what it is, and maybe there's no market.

I probably got a little excited in the beginning when I named the thread, I should have pulled it back and called it what it was, a test.

Let me test them first, I think that's a little light.

There is a couple different ways to test an injector. This argument alone has caused some wars on other forums. A lot of guys test injectors for static flow which doesn't take into account opening and closing time. So you have an injector that might flow 36lbs of fuel if it's open for 60 minutes, but if you pulse it you end up with totally different flow numbers.

The reason I suspect you see a difference is because your injectors are slightly slower to open than the rochester injectors. This doesn't make them any worse per say, but I'm assuming that is your discrepancy.

I would however, say that these injectors have ACTUALLY been tested by Rbob. I, am ignorant to TBI injectors, and had to perform some research after the statement was made that $80, 80# injectors exist for BBC trucks at autozone. My findings are simply that, they could be anything from 72 to 95 lbs, they could be factory set to flow anything between 12.5 and 24 PSI of fuel pressure.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I'd go with what was documented. Too many statements on the forums about what a certain OE part # supposedly flows with no actual test charts to back it up (that I found).

On a side note, there is a guy selling a brand new quad TBI with 85lbs injectors, harness, sensors, pump, and ECM for like $400 in the 'for sale' section. I'd jump on it in a second if I had a car to put it in!

-- Joe

Be glad that you didn't. That set up is one reason that TBI's have a bad reputation. That system has the old Chrysler style injectors. Can tell by the round black plastic injector connectors.

Those injectors shoot 4 small streams of fuel directly at the blades. No atomization at all. At idle a lot of the fuel bounces back up off the blade and goes everywhere. These are a nightmare to get to idle correctly. Let alone the low speed and driveability issues.

Note that Holley switched to the {much} better Delphi injectors some years ago. So it pays to check which injectors are in the unit prior to purchase.

RBob.

Well. Like I said before, I was ignorant about TBI and apparently still am.. I would have totally jumped on that and had no second thought about the injector.

Can the throttle body be adapted to run the newer style injectors? I ask because, I know 'new' version of that 4bbl TBI goes for like $800.

-- Joe

Injectors should be rated at static flow. The fuel pressure at which the injector is flow tested is also required. The real worm in this can is the specific weight (SW) of the test fluid. And, that the SW of fuel has changed over the years.

The dynamic characteristics of the injector is taken care of in the calibration. This is via the injector compensation tables.


I used the formula for calculating the difference in flow versus a change in pressure.

New Flow = SqRt(NewPsi / OldPsi) * Old Flow

122 = SqRt(30 / 20) * 100

RBob.

Need to buy a new pod from Holley. The injector form factor is different.

RBob.

And that was what I was getting at from my original post , the 17084304 (service part # 17112560) 1990-1993 injector that many including myself use is a 75# injector @ 10.5 psi , it has been used for years by myself and others.

I have no idea what the Autozone $80 BBC injectors flow , I have never actually bought a set, I simply looked them up by application , I do however ,have an idea what the 17084304 flows , and at raised pressures also . FWIW these were ran upwards of 75psi by some without failure.

I was just wondering if the rated flow at 10.5 psi on the factory injectors vs the 30 psi these new injectors are rated at are really gaining anything in flow rate.

It was never written in stone in this thread what the new injectors flow and at what psi , it seems to be speculation.

I realize that RBob has these injectors and has tested them and many here are more knowledgeable than myself , I was just posing a question.

I do not mean to offend anyone, especially InjectorsPlus , stepping up and trying to help out 20+ year old technology is a huge undertaking , but if i'm going to shell out $$ for something I want a gain, or something to make the purchase worth the time and $$ , if RBob says they flow around 122# @ 30 psi I believe him as he has tested them, If they can be proven to flow 140# + @ 25-30 psi I will be in line.

TOM

Tom,

You are not offending anyone. Debating tech is what we do here. When results are proven and posted, it helps many for years to come.

-- Joe

Ok. For now they flow like stock 80# injectors.

I would think that any development is best done on the 17112560/17084303 platform, given they have proven to perform better at the pressures we intend to use them at, that would be just shy of 65psi (or 4.5 bar) myself.

IMO the solenoid (electromagnet/motor) is killing your pintle/plate/nozzle work John.

I agree. I have a pretty thick skin.

In fact I ENCOURAGE this. ANYONE on the internet who is trying to take money should be held to a standard. God knows I've held others to it and expect to be held to it myself.

If I tell you I have some magic 30# injectors that will produce 50HP more than any other 30# injector you all have every right to beat the crap out of me. ESPECIALLY if I can't prove it in an independent test. And I won't insult you with bull **** science and made up terms to prove it. If I do, slap me.

I do it to other people, and I have no problem with it being done to me.

Here's the issue, the base of those injectors can't be modified. Sometimes there are just injectors that can't be changed.

Not every R&D project works out. And this is R&D, not swapping parts.

I appreciate the interest and assistance. If you guys think there's a market, great, if not that tells the story.

Rbob, if you want to return them, I'll give you a refund. If you want to keep them, they're yours.

There's a market

Then they are for sale. Everything you need to know about them is in this thread. Give me a call, we'll make them up. I can ship in two days from order.

Guess I should've clarified. There's a market for higher flowing injectors.

Yes there is , without a doubt , but they need to have data to support the claims.

Except the actual flow rate , not a guess , or a hypothesis based on reseting the injector constant to a known value .

Can you provide a flow data sheet with a given injector that provide flow rate in PPH @ psig ?

I really am not trying to beat you up here , but this has been my question all along ,to provide a proven flow rate @ a certain psig.

We know what we have now and what they will flow at raised pressures , please provide hard data on these injectors you have , if they flow more than what we have now I guarantee they will sell like pancakes at a waffle house . Right now with no hard proof of flow they are no better to me than what I have.

Sorry to offend If I did .

TOM

well, unless you're really cool with the cook, thats very unlikely.

No offense, give me a few days to get them together.

Hey RBOB I said I'd refund your money for those injectors if they didn't work out.

If I understand you correctly, they don't offer a huge competitive advantage.

Well, I tried. That's what happens on R&D.

Tell ya what, send me a PM, and I'll refund your money. You keep the injectors, thanks for the work.

We'll keep trying, I'll keep my eye out. I haven't forgotten about you guys in TBI I'm just looking for a reasonable way to do it, price wise.

Well, do you have any unreasonable ways to do it, price wise?

HA! Great question guys.

What's it worth?

Seriously, I can go as far as making them from scratch for $500 an injector if that is what the market will support, and wait a few weeks. And how big would you need?

NOTHING is impossible. It's a matter of what people are willing to pay.

So you tell me, what would you pay for a solution? If I know that I can put my mind to it in a different light, or maybe not. But it CAN be done but like anything else is a function of price.

If I pay $1K for a set of TBI injectors, you would need to sign an oath of secrecy in blood

The cost for a one off set goes up considerably!!

Let me think on this see if there's anything I can do. If you're serious.

Well I've read through this thread but still unsure... What size injectors do you have for sale right now that will bolt into a BBC injector pod? Cost? Availability?

I don't particulerly need the 122 or 140 but 100 if sound would be good...

At what fuel pressure do you want 100 lbs?

Not sure I need 100. Buddy is bringing the truck over next week and from the build I think we may run out of fuel WOT. So what do you have available at what presures? I think he can get 18-19 PSI from his fuel system without changing a pump.

Give me a call, best thing to to is go through this on the phone.

100 PPH at anything under 20 PSI. Can that be done? How much?

I have an injector cleaning service her in town and he has agreed to test any injector we bring to him, up to all stock part number GM TBI injectors. I have already done a set of Big Block injectors that came out to 83.81. So we have a baseline for a big injector. He can use all the exact same settings because this was just done and we would have an accurate compare reading to the biggest available from GM.

So are you up to another, differant, already benchmarked test? If so send me a set and I will get them done! Report exactly what was done and the flow rate results!