We're excited. I just hung up with my partner and R&D team and IT WORKS!

We have tested and verified our new TBI injectors.

These are CUSTOM MADE and gauranteed to work in your TBI applicaitons.

Our injectors come in sizes of 85lbs, 95lbs, 100lbs, 110lbs..

all at 20 lbs of fuel pressure!!!!

Call us for details.

You can not get these anywhere else in the world except IP!

$125 each....

 

hey, let me try 2 of the 100lb ones.. as long as you guaranty them to fit i will take em

 

We just completed final testing.

We can run these reliably at 30/lbs of pressure.

We can get these up to 140lbs/hr.

Hope this helps!!!

 

PM'd you my number. Let's try them!

 

Do you have injector compensation values to go with these injectors? That would be very helpful to tuning. Both pressure vs. opening times and voltage vs. opening times are required.

Looking forward to some larger TBI injectors.

Is there any video of the spray pattern?

RBob.

 

im also interested in the tuning aspect of these injectors,

glad to see a company jumping into TBI like you all are, keep up the good work!!!

 

I don't have that information at my fingertips. Give me a couple days.

Same for video. I spent too many days this week doing this and need to catch up on customer work.

 

I spoke to inj plus today and my regular injector supplier. I want to do these in a 350 pickup TBI build.. I been using modded injectors for a long time. Using, for instance a stock ls2 which is 34lbs at 58psi. We do heads, cams and usually a fast intake.. The stock injector runs out so we need 48 most of the time. I have found that modding the stock injector to flow 48 is a cinch to tune. Since all the injector characteristics are stock and the PCM is already programmed with those values, all i ever do is change the IFR using the IFR vs Voltage modifier or the IFR table itself. They work great and always pass NJ emissions. So, I believe the theory should be the same with the TBI that you are modifying. If its the stock spec coil and everything is the same as stock except for the IRF. Why the need for dead times?, etc when its already there. I honestly believe that these numbers are not available and any number other than the ones in the ecu would be bogus anyway. I think if i had a stock injector that was made to flow more it would work with the stock numbers as the flow is increased after the coil. In other words the coil does not know that the bottom was opened up to flow more so why would it react differently than it is used to.. Does this make sense to you guys?

 

Interesting point. When you get these, tune it and let us know the result. I'll see what I can get in the interim.

 

You are posting about something entirely different. This thread is about new custom made TBI injectors. Which will most likely have different opening/closing characteristics then stock TBI injectors.

RBob.

 

on the contrary, the injector he is modifying is an injector that was designed to replace the oem. Same specs as the oem.. I spoke to him. so if you bought the injector unmodded and replaced your STOCK injector, would you need a re-tune for voltage offsets etc. NO! you would put it in your car, start it up and go. Maybe custom made is not the right word for IP to use, since these are already made and he modified the distribution plate or seat. So my post is correct. IMO

 

I'd like to thank RBOB for doing some testing for us. We gave him a big break on the injectors in exchange for his time and donor vehicle. He's going to put them in and see how they work.

Details from RBOB to follow.

FWIW, I don't know RBOB other than 2 or 3 PMs so I hope his assesment is fair and honest. We can take it, we're big boys.

(I'm writing the findings as we speak)

I hope by the end of next week we'll have some more information.

 

TO BE CLEAR:

I use the term custom made because these are unavailable anywhere else.

We have to do certain things (that I can't talk about) that result in a completely different injector.

Think of it as using a CORE that happens to be brand new.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he is THE ultimate authority. He knows more about ECU's and injector timing than anyone I know. He is my default person to ask when I can't figure something out, and I myself have been tuning EFI for over 10 years now.

So yeah, his opinion matters greatly.

Plus, I'm hoping once he tests these he can tell me how to get them to work in a 550hp TBI application

-- Joe

 

Excellent, so I chose the right guy to get in bed with, (figuratively of course)...

I hope we get a good review. They are going out tomorrow!!!!

He should have them by Wednesday/Thursday the latest.

 

Whats the status on the testing?

-- Joe

 

The first set I sent I jumped the gun and tested. They were under because we rushed and forgot to calculate dead time.

I sent a second set where we built it in and sent it out.

Bob got a hold of them yesterday.

He asked me for some statistics, close time, etc...

The "core" or donor we use to do this does not provide such information.

So the status is we should have an answer shortly.

 

Can they be run at higher pressure?

 

irocuroc, I would think that pintle weight, seat pressure & cone shape v fuel pressure would have an effect on operation.

We await results with baited breath..Thanks boss!

 

We tested them to where we are comfortable. Remember, these are OLD injectors with inherent design flaws. Do you have a pressure you want to run? i can test them at that.

The higher the pressure the spray starts to be erratic and undependable.

One thing I won't do, is put something in your car that can hurt it. I'll test what you want to run, but won't send it out until we do.

 

Reason I ask is I and several others routinely run the stock injectors up to 45 lbs without problems.

So are you saying that a new set of injectors may be more stable than something that has been run for years?

 

So is your 140 lb/hr rating at 20 or 30 psi?

 

Can you post a video of this?

 

30 PSI

 

RBOB has the injectors now. We made sets for testing. I'll have to make up a couple more, so it will take a few days.

 

They are modifications of NEW injectors.

I have to include a margin of error. We error on the side of caution.

As far as an OEM application, they can claim you were running the injectors out of spec, and that's why you blew up your motor. Their spec is 20 lbs.

What we are doing is custom made and by design, out of spec, so I have to be far more careful about what we promise. I'm saying we tested and can certify that they are good to 30 lbs, just like the OEM would say they are rated at 20.

If you want to run it at 45, that's fine, I just don't want to put something out that can run the risk of destroying an engine because we went right to the edge. If someone needs more than 140lbs, we will test at higher pressures. Right now, I'm comfortable at 30. There are other options I carry if this gets too big.

Now, RBOB is a well documented expert in TBI setups and I'm not concerned about him doing something stupid.

But when it comes to the "average joe" who is putting these in the car, I feel a requirement to be safe.

 

They are modifications of NEW injectors.

I have to include a margin of error. We error on the side of caution.

As far as an OEM application, they can claim you were running the injectors out of spec, and that's why you blew up your motor. Their spec is 20 lbs.

What we are doing is custom made and by design, out of spec, so I have to be far more careful about what we promise. I'm saying we tested and can certify that they are good to 30 lbs, just like the OEM would say they are rated at 20.

If you want to run it at 45, that's fine, I just don't want to put something out that can run the risk of destroying an engine because we went right to the edge. If someone needs more than 140lbs, we will test at higher pressures. Right now, I'm comfortable at 30. There come a point where the HP requirements will exceed a TBI setup with these style injectors. HP has improved greatly since these engines were designed. We're trying to fill that gap to get you to 550-600 HP with these setups.

Now, RBOB is a well documented expert in TBI setups and I'm not concerned about him doing something stupid.

But when it comes to the "average joe" who is putting these in the car, I feel a requirement to be safe.

 

FWIW, GM ran the injectors at 28-32 lbs in 94-95 apps, so I would guess there was still some safety margin.

BTW, my name's not Joe

Great that you guys are stepping up to help us TBI guys out

 

I don't see why they wouldn't, we didn't run them to failure, we ran them to HP number, figuring 550 HP or so would do it.

Let's see what RBOB comes up with and go from there

 

Update?

 

I have run the injectors for a bit. However, they are slower to open then the stock Rochester TBI injectors. So I am going to do some characterization on the opening times versus fuel pressure and battery voltage.

Then plug those values into the compensation tables. With that I'll be able to get a better idea of how they are. Just need to drag a bunch of gear out to the garage and do it. I did find the injector driver board which was the hold up for this.

Previously, I increased the fuel pressure then finally just doubled the injector offset table. That was enough to get the car drive-able.

I will say at this time that these injectors are different then the stock TBI injectors. Spray pattern, opening time, design, there is even a slight difference in the form factor.

RBob.

 

Thanks RBOB, I appreciate the update. The form factor may be a result of the modification.

 

Likely a premature thought but that begs the

Q, How high will we need to run our offsets?

A, (mine) Very subjective to actual fuel pressure.

I will just have to poke about if these injectors indeed pass muster.

I would think for va454ss & myself (& others using high pressure), that our offsets already seem pretty sky high, I'm pondering...

 

This is good to see I'm going to have to give you a call when I start busting knuckles on my RS, hopefully early summer. I know F-all about injectors so I won't clutter your thread with non-sense I'll just give you a call.

Keeping the TBI is a must for me and I am dead set on switching to EBL because it is far superior to the stock ECM. It would be nice to read how they work together before then.

 

Thanks Doom. RBOB and I have no relationship, and he is very knowledgeable. The results will be the results. I hope these work for you guys. I like carving out niche's.

I'm just as anxious to see the results are all of you are.

I can promote something which is tested by a guy like RBOB because I can have confidence that he's done the right thing!

I'm comfortable it will work...but validation is GREAT!

 

OK, time for some results. First, the injectors work. I'm using a pair of 100 #/hr (@ 20 psi) injectors. Running them at 20 psi is the same as the injectors I pulled out, stock Rochester 80.5 #/hr (@13 psi, stock. 100#/hr @ 20 psi).

So, removed the Rochester injectors, and replaced with the I+ injectors. Running at 20 psi fuel pressure (VRFPR) which is what was being used with the original injectors.

The I+ injectors appear to be an AC Delco injector. Form factor differences to be noted. The filter basket is different, which also offset the locating pin about 15*. This puts the connectors offset by the same. But no issues with doing that.

The nozzles are completely different, along with the spray pattern. Unlike the foggy cone of a Rochester injector, it is more of a foggy mist.

Electrically, the I+ injectors are a hair lower in resistance and inductance. This can be seen in comparing the current curves while the injector is opening.

There are linearity differences between the two types of injectors. Along with the opening time being slower for the I+ injector. Here is what I ended up with in the injector offset table at 12.8 and 14.4 volts:

OEM Rochester injector:

12.8V: 809 usec
14.4V: 778 usec

I+ injector:

12.8V: 1342 usec
14.4V: 1297 usec

The slower opening time will need to be kept in mind when choosing an injector. As this will cut into the available time for spraying fuel.

I need to do some additional tuning with these injectors. All that I've done so far is the injector offset table and two VE learns.

RBob.

 

Thanks RBOB, it's the different nozzles that allow me to modify them.

I guess the good news is that they work. That's good to hear.

There are some differences, which I expected, but seems like it can be tuned around.

So far, so good. I'm waiting to hear the rest!

Thank you RBOB. I appreciate all your hard work.

 

Ok so I was able to calc my likely offsets based on previous settings.

Breathlessly awaiting BPC observations, lol no pressure, my parts budget is tight for the next 2 months, unless I sell the Jeep.

Did I mention there is a FSJ for sale over here? haha

 

Any update RBOB? Did you get it completely dialed in?

 

It is better with a little more tuning. Added 10% to the AE PW's via the RPM compensation table. Haven't had much time as we've been crunching to get the P4 Flash going. Ordered the PCBs yesterday so have some time to play. Just hope the snow holds off...

RBob.

 

RBOB, are you comfortable that these are ready for prime time? Can I sell these in good conscious?

Thanks.

 

I don't see why not. Just be sure to list the fuel pressure (psi) which the #/hr rating is for.

RBob.

 

OK thanks. I'm rating these at 100 at 20lbs pressure. 140lbs at 30 PSI. Is this fair. I don't want to over sell.

 

They should be about 122 #/hr at 30 psi.

RBob.

 

OK then....They're for sale!

Thanks RBOB, I sincerely appreciate all the help.

 

So If I may ,

Others here and on other forums including myself have been running the factory BBC 80#/hr injectors at higher than stock F/P's for years therefore increasing the theoretic flow rate of them , i.e.. If you increase the pressure from the factory rated 13psi to 30 psi on a 80#/hr injector you arrive at a 121.xxx #/hr flow rate .

I guess the question in my mind is what does the new InjectorsPlus 122#/hr injector gain us over what we/I have been using ?

Just thinking outloud....

TOM

 

Are the 80# BBC injectors available new for the same price?

-- Joe

 

About $80 each at the 'Zone

I haven't bought any new in quite a while to check flow rates etc, as I seem to have quite the stash of OEM ones , but I have purchased a few new ones from NAPA for a modded BBC TBI I was working on with a HD truck pod and the flow rates they advertised were pretty dead on.

TOM

 

im running a 305 tbi with headers, smog and a/c delete a pod spacer, open air cleaner and egr delete. is this enough to run these new injectors and if so, what kind of increase or advantage will it give?

 

no increase no advantage. it will be a disadvantage for you. advantage for you is a tune.