dabird07

iTrader: (10)

so i read the tech board allthough tells me a nbit of good stuff was wondering about some few things like everything that is connected to the stock air cleaner like the plug under it the lil hose connects to the tbi
and the big hose on the passenger side connected to it
do i need all of these when installing a new air cleaner??? or can i just lea ve them offf? thanks guys

camaronewbie

New air cleaner bottom will have a slot that can be knocked out for the sensor that is actually inside the cleaner housing. The rest you don't need (the driver side - stuff is just a heat riser to induce warm air to motor on cold days to get it going easier) - that stuff has a vacuum line on it, you need to plug/cap off that vacuum line.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

nope dont need it!



got rid of the big aluminum ducting on drivers side. vacuum hose trace down to throttle body and cap that port. The air cleaner temp sensor I mounted in the bottom of my air cleaner. and the hose that comes from the passenger side valve cover to the air cleaner. got rid of that. and put in a chrome air breather from oreilly.

Ron U.S.M.C.

If I remember correctly the Firebird has a little more slope on the hood than the Camaro that could cause some trouble with a taller open element. Maybe some of the Firebird guys can chime in and give some advise.If you decide to go with the 14in.x 3in. drop base filter assembly your going to want to use a 1/2in. spacer on the TBI unit along with the existing ring to keep it of the linkage and you should be able to get that at any auto parts store along with the open air assembly its self. I would also pick up some plastic wire lumen to wrap the coil wires that are closes to the bottom of the base plate of the assembly. I even put some electrical tape on the bottom side of the base plate closest to the coil wires. That should do it for safety concerning the coil. Here's what the Chrome air breather that UnderCover89TBI mentioned looks like.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

yup that is it. That air cleaner barely cleared im talking millimeters. it isnt drop base actuallly its a raised base. picked it up new and cheap from streetside auto

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

thanks guys this helps alot!!!!! im getting tired of looking at that ugly thing post pics when im done

thanks!!!

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

yup that is where I was too. Even tho I had a taller filter, modified air cleaner housing, and a flow thru lid on it. I needed to put more time into making it look better and it still wouldnt have loooked great.

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

i was thinkin maybe something like this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DC...8+in.+diameter

Schurkey

Why on earth would you remove a functioning cold-air induction system and replace it with something that's going to suck hot underhood air all the time?

Someone needs to explain this to me, cause from where I sit, this is going BACKWARDS in terms of performance.

Hot underhood air is less dense than the colder "outside" air; and promotes detonation as well.

Come fall and spring, (depending on your climate, of course) you'll be looking at throttle plate icing as the engine warms up, too. Typically happens around 35--40 degrees and raining (high humidity)

Open-element air filters are cheap and simple. Trouble is, they don't work very well.

camaronewbie

1) Please don't put a Mopar air cleaner lid under a Chevy/Pontiac hood

2) That type air cleaner will not fit under a stock hood - at least not with a 2 3/4in filter in it. It is not a drop based, but rather a raised base (that one is raised 1/4 in.) - with a cleaner such as that, you might fit a 2in filter in it

3) DO NOT BUY an assembly like shown above that includes the filter - most come with 3" filters, and it won't fit, so you just spent $30 extra dollars for a $5 filter that you can't use! Just buy a base/lid, and test fit it FIRST.

4) Everyone has issues with a 14" drop-base housing hitting the plug wires - that's why I chose to go with a 9" housing like UnderCover89TBI has shown above rather than a 14" housing.

5) As mentioned, you have to use a 1/2" spacer with a drop-base filter to clear linkage, they are all plastic, all cheap, and all break from the heat in a week, another reason I opted out of the drop-base cleaner housing.

6) Autozone has on the shelf, for $30, a Spectre chrome 9" unit that comes with a 2" rechargeable filter (like a K&N), it fits nice under a stock hood.

7) Yes, open element does introduce warmer air - but most folks notice a tad better performance because of the increased air flow available over the stock cool air intake hosing which is restrictive. I say cool because, given the junk plastic factory tubing, the incoming air warms plenty quick enough before it enters the TBI.

I've never heard of "throttle plate icing" before - not an issue we have in NC, and we have plenty of 35 degree (and much colder) mornings with tons of humidity in the spring/fall. The only thing that freezes in my car is me waiting for her to warm up on these cold mornings - I don't drive it enough in the winter to justify changing to a higher temp thermostat so that the heater works better - she's a summer cruiser!

Most folks here on TGO (that I've read) report a slight improvement with open element over stock. And most folks that use aftermarket or almost any typre of homemade cool air intake setup report a slight increase in performance - but no one ever stated that their factory intake setup was better than either open element or a different intake setup.

ex-x-fire

Another thing about open element air cleaners is that they are very low restrictive, I check alot of air filters at work & it seems like the stock snorkel type air filters are always dirty at where the opening is. The rest of the filter is clean so I just rotate it.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

deffinately not, you can put that on my dodge charger but not on a chevy,pontiac, ford products. Mopars is for dodge chryslers and plymouths!


Well for me. My air cleaner sticks up 2 inches into my hood opening. I think a higher volume of hot air compared to a smaller volume of cool air is better. more air you move in the more air you move out. And on this site. Numerous (100's) of people have put on open elements and felt an increase in performance.

and to camaronewbie:

Also mine is an 11 inch setup a lil more airflow than the 9 but we are on the same track homie! good job! Mine is raised and I cut a hole and mounted the IAT sensor there.

Ron U.S.M.C.

Its a little pricey but if your worried about the plastic spacer you could buy a quality part. = http://www.jegs.com/i/B%26amp%3BB/128/72250/10002/-1

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

thanks guys big help!!
migh sound stupid but did u have to tune the computer when taking all thoses hoses above the passanger valve cover off ?

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

no you do not. if its vacuum you jus wanna make sure to cap it off that is all.

camaronewbie

Never saw that before, wow. And I went through 3-4 plastic ones. Well, now I know, although I don't need.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

thank god for cowl hoods so I dont have to deal with a spacer to raise my lowererd air cleaner. lol. even though my 11x6 air cleaner barely cleared my hood.

the solitaire

ThatŽs what I was worried about for a while.
Then I thought "open element aircleaners are cheap, letŽs just give it a try" and look and behold, it works better then the stock setup, give a lot of space on the driver side and weighs next to nothing compared to the heavy stock setup.

I have a stock hood, so no cold air intake through cowl or similar, yet still the engine starts perfect, runs better while driving and I had no problems during the past 3 months.

ThatŽs when we decided to connect WinALDL and do some IAT measurements.

The setup: My car, a 30 mile drive with the stock setup, the, next day, a 30 mile drive with the open element (a $30 14x2" aircleaner with paper filter)

I left the stock spacer where it was, just had the vacuum hose plugged on the second day.

Outside temperatures were 50°F on both days keeping things simple (we had a stable cloudy period a few weeks ago where temperatures did not change from day to day)

__________________________________stock________open element
At start_____________________________50_____________50
Engine temp 140 while driving___________65_____________75
Engine temp 140 while standing still_____115____________130
Engine temp 194 while driving___________70_____________85
Engine temp 194 while standing still_____140____________175
After switching on the fan, engine 194___ 70_____________75

(temperatures were rounded up towards the next full 5° increment for simplicity. WinALDL never showed 100% stable fixed values, so rounding up for illustrative purposes seemed to make sense at the time, as we just wanted to get an idea)

When the engine is warm and the car sits still, you will notice a difference. As soon as your driving 30 mph or faster the open air element is only slightly warmer and is far less of a restriction. Overall IŽll stick with an open element, because the engine responds far better compared to using the stock setup. Next up IŽll build me a cowl setup with high rise (no air gap) intake to take full effect of the benefits of a larger freely available filter surface. That gets me cooler air then any of the tested setups and more air then the stock setup. As soon as hood clearance offers the available space IŽll also upgrade to a 14x3" filter element. ThatŽll be more then I ever need.

I also never quite understood why GM decided to build such an elaborate CAI setup, and then execute it in such poor fashion, rendering the whole CAI useless. They even had parts in stock that could have done a better job!

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

a man with #'s! nice! I am from the school of biggest filter that fits! haha. so 11x6 it was. I love it. Plus I saved nearly 50 by buying it through Streeside auto

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

see thanks this helps alot my dad believes cold air intak is better and if i go with open air is going "backwards"
maybe this will change his mind

ex-x-fire

If you use a stock type housing, think about doing the power charger or salad bowl mod. The restriction in the system is the air has to flow down & around the injector instead of just flowing in from all sides. GM has the least restrictive tbi set ups, most other manufacturers have the injectors sunk deep into the bores, so not much room for improvement, unlike the GMs.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

yup I had one of those for awhile. I do not think it'll clear a stock hood. I may be mistaken.

deffinately unshrouds the injectors some. I also cut out the bottom of the air cleaner.



I have upgraded more since this. But I think it was a ton better than stock. Also ran a flow thru top lid on that. But this was alll with my cowl hood. I do not know if any of it will clear a stock hood.

the solitaire

The salad bowl and a 2" filter will clear the stock hood just fine. I personally use a 1" spacer and a 2x14" open element under a stock hood. The bowl with a 2" filter and a flat filter top might actually clear the stock hood as well, as long as you take out the stock aircleaner spacer. Not sure whether or not that fits with the throttle linkage

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

oh you deffinately take out the stock spacer with the "salad bowl" it clears the linkages fine.

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

will a two in ch cowl hood be enough???

the solitaire

Depends on what you want to do.

Using a stock intake manifold you can fit a 14x3" aircleaner when not using a spacer.

When using a TBI spacer a 14x2" aircleaner still fits under the stock hood. Just have to leave out the aircleaner spacer.

IŽm not 100% certain how much space this leaves you, but a 3" aircleaner, stock intake manifold and the stock aircleaner spacer hits the hood (I have no hood insulation).

With a 2" cowl youŽll have that, plus 2" (maybe even 2,5" since the cowl does not have reinforcements in the cowl area which the stock hood has.

With a 2" cowl you would technically/theoretically be able to fit an Edelbrock RPM intake manifold, TBI adapter plate (1/2" thick), of course the TBI unit, no aircleaner spacer, and then a 2" or 2,5" aircleaner assembly on top.

Most cowls however offer a bit of extra space since they are not exactly 2", but generally slightly more.

IŽll build my cowl hood 2,5" high so I will have some extra space when fitting a 3" aircleaner.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

mine is a goodmark 2 inch cowl and I am running a 11x6 aircleaner no spacer on a edelbrock manifold so you have quite a bit of room.

thomas1976

Listen to your dad and if you need some inspiration https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...l-diy-tbi.html

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

inspired


the main thing i want is for my engine to look neat and sly and ofcourse performance!!!!

to be honest i like the first one better the ramair ordeal and is it possible for the tubing from air space to ram air box (i geuss thats wat they calll it) to be a aluminium pipe?? and is that a 14" ???

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Yeah If I did not have a cowl I would do a cold air setup but I wanted to use the cowl for air induction. Cold air induction is great though.

Lamonaca92

Glad i found this thread

I had an open element on my 68 impala a few years back but that was simple. Now i have a 92 RS with the 305 TBI and i want to go open element, but im not sure where to start. I was going to pick up a 14x3 Edelbrock set up from autozone it is part 1221 but i have a few questions.

Will this fit my car?

it says its for 5 and 1/8 inches is that right for tbi?

it also says not for pollution controlled cars i dont know if this will affect me

is there anything else i need to know? THANKS !

Anthony

Ron U.S.M.C.

Here in CA I have to replace the open air element with the stock set-up every two years in order to pass the smog visual inspection. Its worth the trouble in order to have the open air set-up.Also 5 1/8 is standard for carb. and TBI. As far as I understand it your not allowed to alter any pollution control devises.Thats why I have to replace mine to pass smog.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

oh get some new pics already! haha..

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

beautiful pic man that airfilter is nice i need to get a new hood cause in my opinion i have to much air going through cause some reason the hood i have doesnt fit all the way and has a lil opening through the top and top part of bumber so alot of air is goin through the hood but i think its to much (correct me if im wrong) i want a cowl but i don know how much to get should i go with a 2 3 or 5 inch cowl lift???

the solitaire

Having air going underneath the hood is actually not all that bad.
If you have a large gap however, either your hood is skewed or your cars body panels badly adjusted, which is mainly a cosmetic issue with these cars.

As for cowl hoods, personally I think for anything but racing applications a 2" cowl should provide sufficient space. Those who require more space because of a very specific build will be aware of how much space they will need.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

basically and a street driven car a really tall cowl 4 inches or higher will affect your viewing. I have no problems with my 2 inch cowl but im tall

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

ill have to go with that two inch or even three maybe but under cover that pic u have ure car??? cause that hood looks nice

i cant stand how the hood always have that open hood look constatly peeps tell me at red lights "ayyy ure hoood is open""

"nahh thats just how its made "
lol

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

yes that is my car. Goodmark 2 inch steel cowl hood

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

ok so spacer needed if 14 by 3 will i need one for a lower height?

should i go with this

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr-Gasket/720/9790/10002/-1


or this

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/4339/10002/-1


or any other links???

torque_is_good

I went to the local adv auto, grabbed the dusty 14 x 2.25 box from the shelf and asked the store manager how badly he wanted to sell this dusty thing. $22 and I was out the door.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

All your aluminum turned blue man!

torque_is_good

what can i say. I got a great deal from a machine shop to rebuild the engine instead of my reassembling it after they machined it, and I guess they had a lot of black paint. Everything was painted black so I offset it with blue.

chrome breather that you can't see, blue plug wires, chrome water inlet and chrome air breather

Ron U.S.M.C.

Yes, I know."Over kill". Ive made some nice changes so this year Ill have some nice "new" photos.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

It actually doesnt look bad. I like it

NICE! show me!

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

i got ya i might go with the three inch then 318 bucks but not a bolt on besides i like the idea of a race hood with pins although could get annoying taking of constatly to work o n motor. . . . .

i was looking at that ill hit up autozone guys nobody likes shipping :P

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

even though i beleive my ram air 1 hood has like a two inch clearence already

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

good? im kind of lost bird...haha...sorry

gmstrong

Which port has to be plugged in the TB?

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

lol imeant lift so i think i could run a 3 inch maybe lol
did that help?

Ron U.S.M.C.

If you have to pull a vacuum line off the TBI "that" hole needs to be caped off . I don't know if it has been mentioned but any auto parts store should carry small bags supplying a assortment of caps just for this reason.(there cheap, so do your self a favor and get the caps)