Yes I'm on over there! If you want to test something out they just let you go for it. Jon is big on freedom of speech to express ones self in an adult manner! All kinds of product have been debated over there a lesson to learn from that web site! I joined hotrodder in 2005 Ron Hatton didn't start posting on the net tell 2009.

 

this is such a joke....

 

Yes I'm reporting on four site I think I said that in one my post most everthing is cut and past with the same picture! the only site that decide to be children I have not posted there because they felt the need to move the post where know one would see. I use the same name on all four it not hard to see I'm being up front, not unless you went to a moron school for stupid! www.hotrodders.com www.fullsizechevy.com. www.thridgen.org and www.gadgetmangroove.com I felt when I posted that I would get a fair sampling of views! Turns out I was wrong! LOL!

 

Now back on track this is the clean tbi and the tool I used.

 

Last this I do is check warping of the base. If I find low spots I block the base on my flat machined surface. Here you can see the before and after.

 

 

 

Here you go a coupe of picture of my little hole in the wall shop!

 

 

Here is the truck I will be useing in my test its a 89 obd1 350 with E3 plugs has a modded chip and a K&N air filter. Runs well already I 'm well below normal at the state smog testing center Which I have to do soon so I will put that in as part of my test. I'm looking forward to see the mpg numbers.

 

Last I recalled this was an F body forum.....

 

They got TBIs too...

So now we know what truck it's on what was your MPG to begin with?

 

First off, the website is twisting words. It cites the EPA stating that 60% of fuel energy is wasted in exhaust, then quickly calls that 60% waste fuel, which is simply not the same thing. The next sentence on the site even goes so far as to imply the fuel is wasted because it is burning OUTSIDE of the combustion chamber. I feel like I don't really need to explain why that is laughable. Anyway...

Since this is presented as working on a properly functioning engine it seems to me that this system is creating a vacuum leak somehow or;

following a logical derivation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics and that we have O2 sensors, the system can only be either increasing the intrinsic heat of combustion of gasoline or appreciably reducing the friction and heat transfer characteristics of the engine (which is what the website implies)

A vacuum leak creates a lean engine. A lean engine creates less power, more heat, and is severely damaging to an engine, so that must not be it.

The fuel is not being altered, so that must not be it.

The friction and heat transfer item sounds plausible, but nothing in the rotating assemblies and no material changes are made so that doesn't really make any sense either.

Testing only MPG will not resolve the issue since it won't disprove the leaned out possibility. The only way to know for sure what is happening is to put a car or engine on a dyno and measure power output, exhaust temperature, coolant temperature, and fuel consumption. Make 3 runs with, 3 runs without the mods, holding fan speeds, duty cycle, and ambient temperatures constant.

 

That's the guestion I'm not a engineer But I do want to know the whole point of posting on three fourm is to answer that. There is this one testing Video done in australia at Panacea here is the link.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa-Jh8OV8mo

 

I will post a picture tomarrow of the Idle air pathway mod that I made to address the conserns Other have had here. It is a bolt in mod that has not been test by me! But is part of the gadgetman groove tech.

 

Still waiting for before mod MPG?

 

First, the Panacea test starts with a poorly running engine, and as a result is invalid. Also, their snapshots are strategically timed, and that is more evident with the after snapshot. Why don't they circle the HC emission in their snapshot? Finally, there is no reference to engine load or rpm (same goes for the gadgetman's video) However, it is interesting to me that the "after" version has the HC pegged at zero ppm, whereas the video from the gadget man has the Nox pegged at zero...

alright, so, being the engineer that I am, I found the Gadgetman's explanation of how his system works.
Basic premise is that the groove causes more extreme "vacuum waves", which causes better vaporization of the fuel, and therefore more complete burning, and as a result less fuel is required.
My problems with this -
1. There's no aerodynamic reason for the "pressure *****" that he describes which result in the vacuum waves
2. If there was confidence in this theory, why does not a single person in the propoganda videos measure engine vacuum?
3. Any and all effects of the air intake and fuel systems are neglected
4. Prior to combustion, the air fuel mix is re-pressurized
5. He suggests that gasoline chemistry has changed to incorporate heavier particles since the 50's and 60's when the inverse is true. We removed lead and added ethanol
6. Gasoline is Homogenous, thus there should not be any heavier components to vaporize. What he is incorrectly referring to is the different molecular weights of the Hydrocarbon byproducts of combustion.
7. The boiling point of gasoline is no higher than 400F, in-cylinder temperatures are triple that at the absolute minimum, so the gasoline should be completely vaporized anyway (which is why you can have combustion on pressurized gasoline)
8. He suggests that the degradation of gasoline over time is due to molecules escaping through steel. The reality is that gasoline degradation is an oxidation reaction.
9. He suggests that fuel continues to burn after it passes the O2 sensor, if it did, many cars would be able to flame out the tailpipes.
10. He describes how sensitive the system is to the machining of the groove. While it could conceivably be possible for a person to machine this groove by hand with a grinder, there will be no statistical reliability. Also, without a wind tunnel and some CNC machining and measuring centers, I find it highly unlikely that he can make any kind of claim as to the sensitivity of the system.

I'm sure if I watched the video again, more items would come to mind, but I'm not that interested in spending more time on this.

Ok, I'm done... Sorry for keeping this thread alive as long as I have, but it's good to review the fundamentals from time to time.

 

Wow I watched that video and almost beleived it!


I guess not knowing what before MPG is doesn't matter because we would have no way to tell if after was true...

 

Thank you for taking the time to go over the info. I still want to know what all the hype is. What's driving all the happy customer around the work with this product. I hope you will let me post my finding for the info value to other who may have seen this on the net and are looking for answer just like me. Again I have to touch it feel it try it to decide for my self as I do with many product!
Again thank
Craig

 

People equate throttle response with power, and $350 of placebo effect.

 

When I got the truck running 10mpg city 15 hwy if I keep my foot out of it drive 65-70 and 45 in the city. After the mods chip/K&N/E3's I did I have no number so I will guess I might have pick up 1-2mpg if that! also I will post my smog test number soon I have to get tested before the end of the month then I will run it again after the mod so we can see the diffrence.

 

Yes! When I saw the mod I guessed that was part of the seat of the pants feel one would get. Has also been document on a dodge fourm for that alone it was worth doing the mod. I my self just want to see the fuel saving numbers. I don't really care how it works!

 

Not "part of" the feel, it is the feel. That's all the groove will do, increase the flow immediately after tip-in. No increase in WOT power and no increase in mileage due to magic vortices (which wouldn't last once the intake tract opens into the plenum anyway).

You may get strange effects from a confused computer which sees too-high flow or too-low vacuum for too-little throttle opening.

 

Well at least this gismo has some scientific reasoning behind it as air does increase speed and change velocity over different shapes. Take carburetor venturis and Airplane wings for example.

The other gadgetman mod for decreasing air through IAC and increasing air through throttle blades I have already debunked as FAIL!!!! in another thread. No I did not put epoxy in my IAC passage so it come come loose and fly through my motor. I just closed my IAC and disconnected it. Mileage difference was up .1 over one year average of without the mod, but if I had kept records of past one decimal it may not have been less then .1 MPG, which was still in my range of a yearly average...that mod was supposed to increase mileage by 40%. I got nothing as everyone anticapated...

I showed this patent to my machinist who has a lot of knowledge beyond machining including military ammunition and has a few worthy patents. He has tools with sizes described in patent and machines to do this precisely and wants to do it, he actually thinks it has some merit. So I am going to drop off a TBI unit for him to machine precisely, although the gadgetman videos say, don't show this is done by hand with a dremal... so someday in future it will be done as I need to rebuild my TBI and have injectors serviced anyway...

 

Ok I look forward to seeing what your machinist does. It all hand done if I remember the bits are part of the patent! each bit is for a diffrent tbi throttle body uses. I have a feeling that it you change the shape of the groove you will get diffrent responces as the air pass through the groove! I guess you could set up a flow bench to watch how the air reacts as it flow over the groove

 

I just got a message from Google about this forum and thought I'd step up to the plate and see if I could help answer any valid questions about the tech.

First, I want to compliment everyone. Most forums are not so open to new technologies. There have been far too many liars and cheats, taking money on false promises. We (me and my network) stand for 100% transparency and honesty.

For those of you that are even a little curious, I encourage you to check out our "Groovy Forums". There, all the guys work together to help one another, and are 100% dedicated to sharing the whole truth. There you will get the information you need as well as to determine the value of operating as a family.

Should there be anyone in the Greater Phoenix area, I would be more than happy to demonstrate the technology personally.

My name is Ron Hatton.
Developer of The Gadgetman Groove

 

So there is no way to do this properly is what your saying because I may use the wrong bit? Seems all angles are covered... project cancelled...

I went to the website and all they had to offer was a holley TBI unit which is not a stock replacement for $500. It has more CFM, differant injectors, differant MAP port. So I can't say it would be an accurate test and I don't want to give up my stock relible parts? I'm not in AZ and even if I was or mailed it I wouldn't pay anyone $300. to cut a groove in my TBI unit by hand for 30 minutes work!

Sorry back to reality of if it sounds to good to be true, it is.

 

All the info is on there web site all you have to do is look around!
http://www.gadgetmangroove.com/index...t=6&Itemid=866

 

all this sounds like a sales pitch for snake oil to me.

 

I will say I built a Q-Jet years ago that a roughed up the throttle plates on the trailing edge on both the primary and secondary side. The carb was in dire need of rebuild anyway, but between playing with the APT screw, cleaning the thing, getting the EGR working correctly, getting the advance mechanism and replacing the vacuum advance, correcting the float level, I went from 13 mpg to 20+ consistently in a fullsize G-van.

On the otherhand here is something to consider........Remember Somender Singh and his grooved cylinder heads.....A guy tried them on his TBI 350.

http://www.herningg.com/projects/groovyheads.html

 

I have seen this but it was never completed when I looked at it years ago. On a diffrent fourm they have compaired the two Idea's interesting.

 

I have a throttle body, so I would be interested in seeing the results of this one! That said, I can't fathom why anyone would pass up the opportunity to conduct an essentially low cost unbiased test, prove out their claims, and have the results broadcast for FREE to a national audience of car lovers that know other car lovers...etc. Unless of course things aren't really as they are being presented.

 

Sorry, I guess I didn't get to the end of the thread before posting. I was just too excited. Let me catch up!

 

Ok, I'm all caught up and I'd still like to see a properly conducted real world test.
Bottom line is: Does it do what it claims or doesn't it?

 

it a hand cut groove but the "bits" are patented. What a JOKE.

Also, I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you have zero knowledge of even basic fluid mechanics.

 

Looks interesting, but not worth my time either. Can someone give me the highlights of this thread? I don't even know what weird mod he's talking about.

 

Ok I post the question has any one seen the gadgetman groove!
I post pic's video but the answer I got was its BS.

That was not good enough for me I post on three fourm and on the gadgetman groove fourm I don't work for them in any way. Because the inventor Ron Hatton live close by I ask if I could go by and see the grove I did I saw it done to a car very happy customer. A very long talk with Mr. Hatton And he was kind enought to lone me one for testing I have read everthing they have on they site very help full everything is out in the open. I thing the tech has merit! I'm only doing my test on tbi. So that the goal! If you want more info you can do what I did and Call or look around there web site they are trying to make a differnce. There has not been an advancement around here in a long time.

 

go get some english lessons.

 

Sorry, but I'd have to agree with SaliTX, I got a headache trying to read what you just posted. If you are legitimately from a different country and are just confused, it’s alright, but if your an American, then you just need to learn how to type.

Seriously though, it’s hard to understand what you said. No offence intended. Just look at what you type before posting a use proper punctuation, and be considerate of your audience. Bad typing is a pet peeve of some of the senior members of this website. Bay hay, I’m no spell wizard either haha.

 

Sorry my fault! I do have dyslexia so when I get going to fast this happens. Even if I read it I can miss things! Had a lot going on this morning. Brain was going way to fast sorry again for that.
I forget not everone reads dyslexia. Multitasking great spelling not so much.

Craig

 

No worries man. Read through it a little more carefully, and now by brain SWELLS with information! And dehydration.. too much coffee.

 

... I can't believe this is still going

Gadgetman, thanks for joining the forum. Would you kindly respond to my initial concerns with the theory you presented on youtube?

 

And have whoever wrote the last post to write the rest of them for you...

 

they avoid all of the real, technical questions becasue this is a scam/joke/false "technology". They will answer those who seem interested and ask basic, superficial questions, and ignore the real questions they cant anwer (becasue this "tech" is a huge load of BS) in hopes that either a.) the nay-sayers will go away, or b.) a few poeple wont notice the facts that oppose this "tech" and they will spend they money to have some guy with a die grinder put a divit/"groove" their TB.

I'd like to see some analysis of this supposed tech, and magical groove shape that can produce some kind of turbulence at the TB that can propagate through through the plenum, get divided into the runners, continue down the runner, go around the intake valve, and travel into the combustion chamber. BAHAhahahaha yeah RIGHT

So lets start with just part of that

Assuming the effect of the "groove" is not lost upon transistion into the plenum, how does the "pulse", "wave", "turbulence", whatever you want to call it produced by the "groove" survive the 90 degree transition into the 8 intake runners? I'm waiting....

and oh yeah, this is the easy part to answer so dont get it wrong!

 

I'm working on some data to answer the questions. I'm also hoping for some input as we go along. I'm getting my truck ready for its smog check before the end of the month. Then I will bolt on the modded tbi. First thing I will show is the data from my obd1 scanner and timing light. I guess I will need to learn how to do You Tube videos as well. Down the road dyno runs! One step at a time!

Craig

 

Horrible thread. I would invest in a greater understanding of grammar and sentence structure. Gadget kill.

F