codyscamaroz28

i am putting a 350 in my 91 camaro its a t5, the motor is a 1995 tbi 350 with the 193 swirl ports, now i know there junk but i have a complete motor holley 650 Dp hei dist, and a holley mid rise duel plane intake, i just want a lt1 equivalent power. i am gonna do some light porting on the intake an heads, new springs lifters pushrods maybe roller rockers if i need them? what cam would best suit my need? i just want a 13 sec daily really

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Then you will probably have to ditch the heads.. Maybe it will do it with porting I have seen where Fast355 says they are decent with some work. On the safe side id save the $ and at the least get some Vortecs.

TURBOTOMMY

Not even going to be close to having LT1 power or 13teens with those heads..Not being a smartass,,just being honest..Ya might get 250hp out of it with an RV type cam 208-215deg. int duration,,anything bigger is well out of the power range for those heads......

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

WRONG!!! I put down 250 HP at the tires through a 700r4 and GM 12 bolt connected by a driveshaft with 3 u-joints and a carrier bearing from a 8.75:1 350 TBI with those heads and a factory 1996 Corvette LT4 cam. 203/210 @ .050.

I would run a Crane 100052 272H10 grind with those heads. Single pattern cams run best with the swirl ports. I would go somewhere in the 216/216 @ .050 range with about .450-.470" of lift, tighter LSA (106° to 110°) and advanced 4° from straight up.

codyscamaroz28

what springs, and valves you use? stock rockers? also im just doing a light port job this will be my very first port work so im not doing much lol

codyscamaroz28

how much porting did you do to pick up them gains id be fine with those results,also mine will be carbed

codyscamaroz28

an is that a roller cam i thougt tbis were rollers

TURBOTOMMY

I don't care what you say you put down with em,,,theyre crap heads that dont flow and everyone else knows it..They just cant flow enough to come close to LT1heads and there not worth putting any money into at all..Just because you like em your not doing this guy any justice cheerleading him into wasring money on them....

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

TURBOTOMMY

You want LT1 power,,then do it right at least throw a set of vortecs on it,,they're cheap as hell why do you want to make of hard on yourself..Box stock Vortecs with STOCK springs and a small extreme energy can put my S10 in the 13s right off the bat,,,and deep in the 12s with No2...

Your gonna be really disappointed when you upgrade later to something better,,you'll realize you wasted alotta time and money on them....

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

They are already on his engine!!! I spent practically no money on that setup it was already bolted together. All I did was change to some Z/28 valve springs I had sitting around. Took all of an hour to upgrade the springs in a G-van for a cam swap.

Its not all about flow and not everyone spends their time at 5,000+ unless they are drag racing. I have run a set of those stock heads very deep into the 13s on a 350 in a S10 Blazer. It was also a 200K mile junkyard delivery van 350 that did it. That engine was a stock L05 with a cheap spring upgrade, Crane 274H06 cam advanced 4°, 1.6:1 rockers, edelbrock performer rpm Q-Jet intake with the center 4 bolts slotted, and a set of 1 3/4" primary shorty headers with 3" collectors. TH350 with a 3,000 stall and 3.73s in the rear. Ran 13.20s @ 100 mph shifting at 5,500 rpm in Drive.

I had a set that I cleaned up and ground the swirl vane down some and they flowed better than a stock LT1 head. You can get them up over 220 cfm intake and over 200 cfm exhaust. With a small cam a set of Vortecs actually made less torque through 3,500 rpm and did not gain anything power wise until over 4,500 rpm compared to stock 193s.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I would not waste another dime on those crack prone POS Vortecs myself. The ones you pickup from from GMPP do not even flow 220 cfm intake now. The tooling GM uses down in Mexico to build them is absolutely worn out. They kept building 350s for Trucks and SUVs well into the GMT800 years down there and the quality is horrible. Good luck finding a non cracked Vortec 062 head in the junkyard too. The early Canadian 906 castings are best but hard to find and even they can crack. Also the retainers/ valve seals only allow you to run about .480" lift with any margin of safety on a stick head.

I also would not touch another Xtreme energy cam. I had a 4x4 Extreme roller in my Express that ended up losing two lobes in 20k miles. It was without a doubt Core/Heat Treat failure.

89-S-dime

iTrader: (3)

maybe not in your best interest to be arguing with one of the most respected members on this forum, with that being said, I was naive about using 193 heads on my S10 build too till i started doing a little homework and then got into porting SBC heads myself.
most people dont know that right out of the box on the exhaust side a set of 193's will out flow 062, 906 vortec's and with some clean-up of the casting marks the 193's will flow up to 200 CFM on the intake side and with some bowl blending and back cutting of the valves they will flow up to 220 cfm on int/ext








here is a few of the tools i use to port heads

I am not going to say the 193's are as good as LT1 heads but to say theyre crap heads that dont flow and everyone else knows it is a false statment, anywho welcome to the forum and I am looking forward to reading more of your posts

TURBOTOMMY

They're crap heads and everyone does know it for tthe most part..I don't buy junkyard parts either,,they're no more crack prone than any other gm lightweight casting..Your not adding to your credibility saying there better than vortecs..I know who you are,,I know you've helped alotta people out and have a gazillion post all over several forums,,so what..Swallow your pride and give the guy better advice then..Hate to tell ya but gm,s been building engines in mehiko a hellu long time before those heads rolled out..

I worked for gm for a long time,,have worked for ford and dodge to,,currently with Toyota..I have respect for you,,but your giving this kid bad advice...

TURBOTOMMY

You lost some lobes on a can,,,well I'm sorry that happened to you,,stuff happens ya know..I've never had a problem with any comp cam I've run,,or erson or lunati...

Its his money he can choose good with it whatever he wants,,personally I try to buy/work with the best parts I can afford even if ive gotta save for awhile to get them..The guy,s starting with one of the worst flowing heads that gm ever put on a 350,,,I just don't think he,s gonna be very happy with them....

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Not one place did I say they were better than Vortecs except that in back to back testing they made more torque than Vortecs on the same engine with the same cam. Vortecs are more crack prone than the 193s. Ask just about machine shop. There is a reason core charges on Vortec heads are much higher than other heads. The Vortecs love to crack between the seats. I lost a heater hose on my Express van and overheated it mildly, not even into the red on the temperature gauge and ended up cracking both heads. My brother had a 1999 Tahoe he pulled the heads off that were also cracked in the same place. Both sets of heads were hecho en mexico 062s. The flow numbers of the Mexico heads have been documented in more than one place as well. If he was buying heads I would get aftermarket aluminum heads. The Etec 170s out of the box have been used on a 355 that made 485 hp. I had a pair on my Express and it was night and day over the stock vortecs.

I will maintain that for his goals the TBI heads will get him there in stock form with room to spare. There was a guy on here a few years ago that shoved a mild cam in a L05 out of a Cadillac Fleetwood and ran 13.60s all day long. I put a 5,300 lbs G-van deep in the 15s with a set of TBI heads and a LT1 cam with an 18cc dished piston 8.8:1 L05 despite having 3.08 gears.

I have also worked for Dodge and now Nissan myself. I have a 4,000lbs Infiniti 5.6 V8 luxury sedan with an internally stock engine that puts down more power to the wheels than most high performance 350s do to the crank and runs 12s with the a/c on while still able to get 26+ mpg highway. I could make the car run 11s if I felt like it, but it is a daily driver and I am not willing to go further with it.

He might as well LS swap it by your way of thinking. A stock LQ9 has heads that are a hell of alot better than any head GM put on a 350 and usually blows away aftermarket 350 heads.

The modern engines are that much better too. At what ppint do you stop? For example a mild cam in my 2006 4 door Hemi Ram along with longtubes, tune, cold air intake, converter and 4.56s put it into the mid 13s on heavy 305/50R20s.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Remember that you can do a mild cam swap without changing the heads and in the future if it is not enough power you can always upgrade the heads as budget allows and make even more power.

I think he will have bigger issues to address than the heads even with a mild cam swap. A stock T5 and a 7.5" 10-bolt will not survive long behind a 350+ hp engine. The car will also need subframe connectors to keep from ripping itself apart as well as LCA reloction to help plant the power. Then you have a brakes and suspension to upgrade to be able to safely drive the car with the greatly increased power.

TURBOTOMMY

ETEC170,,,NOW WERE TALKING...I agree with ya here..You-all hava good day,,you too Fast355