Help serpentine belt routing!
06-07-2017, 07:38 PM
#1
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Help serpentine belt routing!
I have a 1991 350 tbi converted to carb. To install in a 66 impala. So i no longer need the ac unit compressor or power steering. All i want is alternator crank and wp on the engine. Also i have the bulky all 1 piece bracket system. Motor came from a 1991 v2500 suburban. I would apperciate help pics if at all possible hell even a parts list would be spectacular!
06-07-2017, 11:23 PM
#2
Re: Help serpentine belt routing!
What do you want to do? Remove the serpentine system, and add old-fashioned V-belt pulleys?
Remove the AC and PS pump, and attempt to install a shorter serpentine belt?
1. I used to own a '66 Biscayne. Going without power steering is NOT recommended. Have you ever tried to herd a B-body down the road with slow-ratio manual steering? Not only do you want power steering, but you'll want some version of the steering box with fast-ratio gears and with larger torsion bar.
2. You could replace the A/C compressor with a "delete pulley" (or just use the compressor but with it disconnected from any of the A/C system you probably don't have. The belt routes around the delete pulley or the compressor, the pulley bearing free-wheels, and it's no big deal.
3. If you keep the serpentine system, the reverse-rotation water pump will have to have a reverse-rotation fan and fan clutch. If you convert to V-belts, you'll need a regular-rotation water pump and a regular-rotation fan and fan clutch. If you "invent" something, you'll need a water pump, fan, and fan clutch set up for which ever direction the water pump spins.
4. If you change the water pump, you may or may not have to change the timing cover to be able to see the timing marks. If you change the timing cover, you may have to change the damper to match the new timing pointer.
5. The best thing you can do is to RETAIN THE SERPENTINE SYSTEM, add power steering, and either use the delete pulley or the A/C compressor. Then you keep the damper, timing cover, water pump, fan clutch, fan, and some of the nicest accessory mounting brackets on the planet. It's the minimum-hassle, maximum-value arrangement. (As long as it clears the hood. I expect it will.)
6. For the record, I scalped the same--or similar--accessories and brackets from a '90s pickup to install on my '68 El Camino.
7. The '91 engine mounts are the "clamshell" type. Wonderfully reliable and safe. The '66 used the horrible rubber engine cushions bolted to towers attached to the crossmember. You will probably not use the clamshells as they won't connect to the crossmember without rework. When I set up an older rubber-cushion + tower system, I always buy the short/wide rubber cushions even with the short/narrow towers, and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS assure that the mount cushions have the steel safety interlock tab on each side. The mount cushions that don't have the safety interlocks cost about four dollars less, and have been the subject of recalls. With the short mount cushions, and the short towers, I can space the rubber cushions away from the engine block with a few washers on each bolt hole, and have extra room to route the spark plug wires UNDER the exhaust which looks clean, doesn't interfere with valve cover replacement, and yet still remains serviceable when you need to change plug wires. Some of the older chassis used the tall towers, so the short cushions were the OEM matching set--there'd be no extra washers in that case. My point is, the short/wide rubber cushions work with either height of tower if you're willing to be a little creative. If you look close, you can see the washers between the mount cushions and the block in this photo below. This photo is twenty years old, this is the engine I'd put the serpentine system onto if I can figure out how to route the upper radiator hose.
Remove the AC and PS pump, and attempt to install a shorter serpentine belt?
1. I used to own a '66 Biscayne. Going without power steering is NOT recommended. Have you ever tried to herd a B-body down the road with slow-ratio manual steering? Not only do you want power steering, but you'll want some version of the steering box with fast-ratio gears and with larger torsion bar.
2. You could replace the A/C compressor with a "delete pulley" (or just use the compressor but with it disconnected from any of the A/C system you probably don't have. The belt routes around the delete pulley or the compressor, the pulley bearing free-wheels, and it's no big deal.
3. If you keep the serpentine system, the reverse-rotation water pump will have to have a reverse-rotation fan and fan clutch. If you convert to V-belts, you'll need a regular-rotation water pump and a regular-rotation fan and fan clutch. If you "invent" something, you'll need a water pump, fan, and fan clutch set up for which ever direction the water pump spins.
4. If you change the water pump, you may or may not have to change the timing cover to be able to see the timing marks. If you change the timing cover, you may have to change the damper to match the new timing pointer.
5. The best thing you can do is to RETAIN THE SERPENTINE SYSTEM, add power steering, and either use the delete pulley or the A/C compressor. Then you keep the damper, timing cover, water pump, fan clutch, fan, and some of the nicest accessory mounting brackets on the planet. It's the minimum-hassle, maximum-value arrangement. (As long as it clears the hood. I expect it will.)
6. For the record, I scalped the same--or similar--accessories and brackets from a '90s pickup to install on my '68 El Camino.
7. The '91 engine mounts are the "clamshell" type. Wonderfully reliable and safe. The '66 used the horrible rubber engine cushions bolted to towers attached to the crossmember. You will probably not use the clamshells as they won't connect to the crossmember without rework. When I set up an older rubber-cushion + tower system, I always buy the short/wide rubber cushions even with the short/narrow towers, and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS assure that the mount cushions have the steel safety interlock tab on each side. The mount cushions that don't have the safety interlocks cost about four dollars less, and have been the subject of recalls. With the short mount cushions, and the short towers, I can space the rubber cushions away from the engine block with a few washers on each bolt hole, and have extra room to route the spark plug wires UNDER the exhaust which looks clean, doesn't interfere with valve cover replacement, and yet still remains serviceable when you need to change plug wires. Some of the older chassis used the tall towers, so the short cushions were the OEM matching set--there'd be no extra washers in that case. My point is, the short/wide rubber cushions work with either height of tower if you're willing to be a little creative. If you look close, you can see the washers between the mount cushions and the block in this photo below. This photo is twenty years old, this is the engine I'd put the serpentine system onto if I can figure out how to route the upper radiator hose.
Last edited by Schurkey; 06-07-2017 at 11:29 PM.
06-08-2017, 08:08 AM
#3
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Re: Help serpentine belt routing!
Id like to keep serp. Belt. But no i dont want power steering or ac trying to stay original. I have original motor if i ever decide to sell.
06-09-2017, 10:57 PM
#5
Re: Help serpentine belt routing!
At the time the photo was taken, either I didn't know about the polyurethane mounts, or they weren't being made yet. Energy Suspension makes high-quality mounts, I think Prothane makes them, and Summit sells a generic version. I don't know who the supplier is for the Summit item.
The generic Summit version:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-7731114
The ordinary rubber mounts are almost all made in India or China now, and I do not recommend them--but on other applications like Pontiac or Olds or Buick, there isn't any choice.
I'm thinking that the short 'n' wide rubber (polyurethane) cushion will be the OEM for a 66 B-body; so you may not get the chance to add washers for more plug wire clearance.
The A/C is easy, but the PS pump is going to be needed for belt-routing purposes. You might be able to tie the inlet directly to the outlet so the pump can be kept full of fluid for lubrication--but I have no idea how hot the fluid might get. Might not be bad if you can bypass the pressure regulator so there's little-or-no pressure, just perpetual recirculation of the fluid.
Honest-to-God, I'd slap a power-steering sector in there without a second thought. You'll gain immense driving satisfaction from the faster ratio.
The generic Summit version:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-7731114
The ordinary rubber mounts are almost all made in India or China now, and I do not recommend them--but on other applications like Pontiac or Olds or Buick, there isn't any choice.
I'm thinking that the short 'n' wide rubber (polyurethane) cushion will be the OEM for a 66 B-body; so you may not get the chance to add washers for more plug wire clearance.
The A/C is easy, but the PS pump is going to be needed for belt-routing purposes. You might be able to tie the inlet directly to the outlet so the pump can be kept full of fluid for lubrication--but I have no idea how hot the fluid might get. Might not be bad if you can bypass the pressure regulator so there's little-or-no pressure, just perpetual recirculation of the fluid.
Honest-to-God, I'd slap a power-steering sector in there without a second thought. You'll gain immense driving satisfaction from the faster ratio.
06-10-2017, 07:42 AM
#6
Re: Help serpentine belt routing!
I have a 1991 350 tbi converted to carb. To install in a 66 impala. So i no longer need the ac unit compressor or power steering. All i want is alternator crank and wp on the engine. Also i have the bulky all 1 piece bracket system. Motor came from a 1991 v2500 suburban. I would apperciate help pics if at all possible hell even a parts list would be spectacular!
http://marchperformance.com
