Right. I may need a patient person for this one!

First, a quick rundown.

I have a 85 Camaro with the LG4 engine. I'd like to get some more power from it, but the following points must be considered:

* I am aiming for the 300-350hp range, maybe a bit less but no more.
* I live in England, so before anyone says "just get a 350" they aren't so easy to come by! Minimum price for a 330hp unit is around $3750
* Many of the manufacturers you mention are not available here.
* No power adders!

After using the search button feverishly, I have come up with the following parts I think I need :

* Headers
* Performance Intake
* Hi-Lift Cam
* Bigger Carb
* Better ignition

Can anyone advise me further on this? Edelbrock, MSD and the like are available here.

Also, would the stock heads be suitable for my needs? They are to be removed in the next few days to change the head gasket. With the power I'm after in mind, what should I do to the heads while they're off?

I'm afraid you'll all have to dumb it down for me a bit. As I say, many manufacturers are not available here, so I'd need specs rather than a make of part. Any info is gratefully received!

Thanks,

Si

 

I would not even 'attempt' to make that kind of power out of an LG4. It's just not possible unless you have very deep pockets. Your heads are the biggest restriction in that engine so make SURE you dump those for a better set.

Headers will not help too much as you are way down on power and can't fully benefit from them. I would first get a larger cam as your cam is 'very' mild, get a better carb, dump off that computer controlled distributor in favor of one that has a vacuum advance and has been either fitted with an Accel/MSD ignition module or retains the stock module with a recurve kit.

You will not make any resemblance of the power you need with those heads, they are just plain junk

Anyway, those are my $0.02.
later!
Colin

 

He's right,heads are the key to power. My opinion is to get the best set of 305 heads[1.84/1.50] and port them yourself,if you can afford aftermarket heads then you are better off spending the money on a 350. With a decent cam you can make 300/325 hp.

 

Umm, I really can't justify $3750 on a 350 engine, I'd rather get what I can out of the 305.

I'm really confused now. You guys are basically saying the LG4 heads are junk, but others in previous threads have said the heads are fine with a bit of work. I have been lead to believe that the biggest bottlenecks are the exhaust manifolds and the compression. Not much I can do about the latter, granted.

 

Oh don't listen to the "it can't be done on a 305 brigade." They're just sorry they didn't do it and spent big time on a 350

You have exactly the right formula, so go for it. You don't need a bigger carb, the QJet is fine. Go to the Tech Articles and read Damon Nickles column on tuning them.

Then pick up a high energy 50,000 volt coil for your distributor. That is all you'll need for the ignition if the rest is OK. MSD digital control boxes and their like are not necessary at all on this type of engine.

Hooker or Hedman shorty style headers and a 3" exhaust into a dual 2 1/2" outlet muffler.

Port and polish your own heads. Look up my thread from a few days ago, it tells you everything with lots of pics. They'll be very close to Vortecs when done

An Edelbrock Performer intake is good.

Use a Crane PowerMax 260 cam if you have 2.73 gears. If you have 3.23 or 3.42s, etc., go for the PowerMax 266.

Should produce 300 hp just like that.

That equals low-14s or high-13s

 

This subject is asked so often it is amazing. You could do a search and find it asked every couple of days for years.

The first bottleneck in that motor is the exhaust, from the heads to the street. Get a chassis-specific (not universal) set of headers, a high-flow cat, and a cat-back exhaust, but DO NOT get the ones for a LG4 car, get the ones for something like a 88 350 TPI car. Edelbrock is fine for this.

The next bottleneck is the cam. The best cams for the application are the Comp XE256H and XE262H. I'd stick with the 256 with an auto trans, go with the 262 with a 5-speed.

THe next bottleneck is the air cleaner. Get one from a L69 car, they frequently pop up in the classifieds on this site. DO NOT get an open element, they suck in hot underhood air and deprive you of 5% or more of your HP potential.

Then, the heads will be the next obstacle. A good port job will free up 20-25 more HP.

Resist the temptation to unbolt and replace things that are easy to get to and romantic-looking. Your carb, intake and ignition are fine, leave them alone until after the other things are done.

You can make the car alot faster, apart from the engine, with better gears (you probably have 2.73 gears now) and a torque converter if your car is auto trans. I'd recommend 3.42 gears.

 

Here's how it looks on DD2000.

 

Here's the hp and torque tables.

 

You will need a set of Keith Black pistons part #144, Lunati cam #07101, a set of vortec heads, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake(with the vortec bolt pattern) part #7116 or #7516, Edel. carb #1406 (600cfm) or #1411(750cfm) and a set of headers. This will give you 350hp 350 torque. If the vortec heads are to expensive or hard to come by over there just port your 305 heads as long as they are not the TBI heads. The problem with the 305 is its small bore, but these motors can be made to run if you plan it out. When I built this motor for a customer I had best results installing the cam 4 deg. advanced. Good luck and if you need any more help just email me and I’ll do what I can.

 

All the cams mentioned here--Crane, Comp and Lunati--are kissing cousins to each other. They have almost identicle lift and duration numbers. I only recommend the Crane cams because they have a wider Lobe Separation Angle, which produces a smoother idle.

 

Well I actually read your post and realize that you cannot obtain most parts that are widely available to us. So with that in mind, you should port the heads. They're fine and F-BIRD'88 has had really good success porting his set. A set of TPI headers is a must for your car. TPI headers are bigger than TBI/Carb headers so you will see more power. You may need to get a larger cat or adapt it somehow to the smaller catalytic converter. An intake swap to an Edelbrock unit will reward you with 20hp probably. Tune the carb you already have.

You have all the right ideas in mind.

 

Thanks very much, everyone who replied!

I did a search first, but like I said..."get X from pep boys" was the most frequent answer I could find, and pep boys and the like are not over here.

The info I have now is really all I needed, thanks again. Now I have an action plan. While the car is in pieces, I'll port/polish the heads and install the new cam and lifters. Then, I'll put it back together like that and get it back on the road (g0d I do miss her so!). One by one, I'll get the remaining parts and fit them as time goes on.

By the way, with the exhaust I should have mentioned that there are no emissions laws here for a pre-'92 car, so there is no cat and there never will be! It's free-flow baby yeh!

With that in mind, is there anything else I could remove, emission wise, that may give more hp, or make a more pleasant ride?

:hail: to all !

Si

 

If you have an air pump or catylitic converter you can toss them. Save some weight

 

Luckily I have neither an air pump or a cat.

Here's an interesting angle to the question,

Due to the lack of "expertise" in this country, with regard to the computer controlled aspects, is there any way to make the engine totally, or mostly, mechanical only? For example, remove all but the necessary sensors etc. and such?

Please don't flame me for this question, I really have no idea. I have worked on cars extensively, but all except for the most modern of British cars have no ECUs/ECMs and are entirely mechanical. It's all foreign technology to me!

Thanks,

Si

 

Yes you can remove the computer. You will need a different distributor and a non-computer controlled carb.

 

http://www.angelfire.com/nb/thirdgen/343hp305.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/325_h...chevrolet.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/carcraft325hp305.html
These sites are pretty useful.

 

And make sure you post up here with the results to show that a 305 can run.

 

A carb'd computer isn't nearly as sensitive to engine modifications as the fuel injection types are. Do your head porting, cam change, and exhaust upgrades, and the computer will be just fine. Keep the cam selection to one that is compatible with the computer, that's all. The ignition only needs a module and coil, which you should be able to get through mail order.

You don't need Keith Black pistons . Or a bigger carb. The one on there is bigger than the 305 can ever use. It may need a slight modification to allow it to flow to its full potential, but that's outlined in the tech article section (mine didn't need that modification). Secondary rods and hanger will probably also be needed, but those can be had for a lot less than a new carb and distributor would cost you.

And yes, 305's can be made to run. The net change just won't be as much as it would be with the same modifications made to a 350. But, the power that you can put out for the money spent will be better.

 

desktop dyno 2000 claimed the motor in my car (listed below), is at or near 300hp,

i somehow feel that dd2000 is a tad off as i can only run 15+ secs in the quarter mile,

a higher stall tq convertor may have helped some, but i think it will be happier with a 5 speed i know i will be

 

Firechicken,

You should definitely be faster than that!

Are you correcting your times for altitude, etc.?

 

Just did my 91 LO3. Here are some of the specs. More to follow (with times too!). These numbers are probably NOT being achieved now as I have NOT changed the prom. (looking for a good deal...anyone know where to get one?) 305 LO3-40 over, speedpro hyperutectic pistins, speedpro lightweight race rings, custom ground comp cam, cnc ported STOCK heads to 200-220 cfm range, 3 angle valve job, 1.6 roller tip rockers, high flow oil pump, 2400 stall converter, and MANY MANY little extras and tricks. Too much to list here. I wish I had proof like the printout earlier shown by someone in this post. Mine has shown on the computer (in the motor builder's shop) to have 384 ft/lbs and 363hp (fw) You CAN upgrade the 305 and it WILL perform. Numbers soon will prove it. Keep the 305 and good luck. Hope you find all you need.

Eric

 

Arn't you guys in the UK blessed with leaded fuel? Maybe a good bump in compression with a healthy cam and heads would do some good.

 

You can make a 305 produce some decent power with the right selection of parts and good tuning. I got my LG4 down to a 13.4 quarter mile with a completly stock bottom end. I have my 305 mods listed on my website if you want to take a look.

 

sitting bull,

i know i should be faster, keep in mind the heads are completely stock, so with that in mind, the motor is probably overcammed, also i am running stock valve springs, the car pulls very strong from about 2k to 4k, then it seems slow a little (i think it has to due with the vaccum secondaries), but keeps pulling to over 5k, i rarely, push that far due the stock springs, if you have a suggestion for a spring to use, please post it here

the motor is currently out of the car on a stand, unfortunately i am not open to modifying the heads, my budget will not allow it and i am not too hot on the idea of home porting,

the 60ft time is in the 2.45 range, on the pass listed in the sig, ironically, when i swapped from 3.23 to 3.73, i gained a solid 8 tenths, but the 60ft remained the same, there is some wheelspin, launching at ~1000rpm

by the way no altitude corrections the time is as it was on the slip

 

OK, you are doubtless actually somewhere in the 14s, due to altitude compensations. The track you run at should be able to supply the info you need to calculate your corrected ET.

I would say use the springs your cam manufacturer recommends. Or Crane or Comp springs for a similar cam.

Don't be afraid to port your heads. It is fairly simple. Look at my thread a few pages back on this forum. It covers everything, with pics.

 

jbenge seems to have a simple straight forward Recipe
that worked. Some of the keys are getting the compression ratio up by shaving the heads and using a thin head gasket to better serve the bigger new cam. The rear gear ratio and actual converter stall speed are critical because when you cam up and port a305 or other small motor, the power curve is raised up in the rpm band considerably. ( at the expence of low end torque)Most converters are stall speed rated for a 350ci motor. A 305 will see a somewhat lower actual stall than advertized. So if you want 3000 rpm stall behind your 305, your best to order a "3500 stall converter" {10 inch)

Pay close attention to the way he built his exhaust system.
The long tube economical hedman headers will out power even the best shorties, for a lot less. You have to build the Y pipe cause no manufacturer sells one you can bolt on. The rest you can buy (3" cat back exhaust) You can notch the flanges on the crossmember to allow you to tuck the Y pipe up as much as possible. It helps.
Ignition : you can buy a MSD billet "Ready to Run" and a Blaster 2 coil. And MSD wires. All it needs is 12v hooked up to operate. It has a adjustable
advance curve and vacuum advance. No ignition boxes to buy, it's all inside. Bullet proof.
Heads : start with the best /cheap castings you can.
for 305 heads that would be 416's or 081 centerbolt castings.
Don't be shy on the porting and get the bigger 1.94 valves
and a quality valve job. Have them milled down to raise your compression ratio on the stock short block AMAP. Depending on the available pump gas octane.

 

You should be able to build a basic flat top 350 and even throw in a few upgrades for far less than $3700 US. Don't buy a factory crate motor, they are not blueprinted. You and a qualified
automotive machine shop can rebuild a much better 350
than you can buy off the shelf for a lot less. Complete Federal mogul rebuild kits are readially available even over there.
You could even bolt your fully ported and up-graded 305 heads to it and reach your performance goals. Could even order it from Summit and have it shipped over for less. Lots of options available to ya. I'd look in the Phone book and call a few local Automotive Machine shops and see what is available.
A two bolt block and a cast crank will more than do for this level of build up.

 

Afraid not. A couple of years ago, yes. Now all we have is "2 star" unleaded, "4 star" 'lead replacement' and super unleaded.

 

http://www.automotivesuppliers.co.uk...uloverview.htm

You might find this relevent.

 

Hello, I hope everything is doing fine with that rebuild.

I hope you can help me with this doubt, I have a camaro rs here in my country, but due to economical reasons I will move to europe in December-January this year, I really like my car a lot so I only have two options, One is bringing my car there (is this even possible due to imports duty´s taxes, etc) or I will be able to find a fine example of a thirdgen there? I dont like 4th gens (The styling) And of course will need to have a second car due to fuel price (I can put a full tank here with less than 4 american dolars 95 octanes unleaded), how much is the fuel right now there and how much you stock motor consume?

By the way I will go to spain.

Thanks

 

That's it, I am sooooo tired of hearing that a 305 can't be built, if you believe that then I do think that you're stuck in 350 world! I can prove that a 305 mildly built will lay down a mildly built 350! I have done it! I am pushing close to 300hsp without having to bore mine over or modifying it at all! all I did was put in a 270H Comp Cam, Headman Heders (this company makes the Y piping that fits their heders!), Edelbrock performer RPM 600cfm Carb, and Edelbrock Performer Intake. I polidshed and shaved the heads, honed it, did a valve job, and turned the crank! That's all!!!

The heads are not much different since the castings are the same. 350 have better displacement as the 305 has better combustion due to the smaller chambers. A 305s walls are just as thick as a 350 and can be taken, up to, 5 over, just like a 350. Alot of peopel say there are "over heating issues" bull!! My engine is running 20 degrees less than stock! BTW, everyone that told me to build a 350 instead are now praising my car! They are amazed at how fast and the power it kicks out, not to mention that I can still bore her out and take on really built 350s and stay with them, nose to nose!

BTW, if you don't belive me, bring it. I'm in Ohio and will take it to the strip just to prove doubters wrong.

 

Forgot to show this...lol

 

I know for a fact that you can bring a car into England, as my friend has just done it. From the US it cost around 1000 UK pounds. I'm pretty sure you can import one into spain but I'd check. Gas here is astronomical, it's around $5.40 per US gallon. Spain is a little cheaper, but still expensive compared to what you have. I'd estimate my car gets 12mpg around town and 25mpg on the highway.

Si

 

:hail: THE MAN!!!!!!

 

LMAO, is that supposed to a smarta**ed comment or are you being serious?...BTW, I am female thus the purple engine...ROFLMAO

 

So are you saying that a 305 with the same mods as a 350 will be faster? I hope you arent because that would be complete bull****. Can a 305 be built to make decent power ? Yes Can a 350 be built fro the same amount of money to make MORE power? Yes If you want to stay with a 305 theres nothing wrong with that and more power to you , but in terms of power per dollar and the ability to breath the 350 just makes more sense.

 

The 350's actually have better combustion because of more surface area; which will increase burning efficiency. The smaller bores on the 305 puts less stress on the rods and crank though.

 

With the same mods, the 350 would spank you...

The SB 305 and SB 350 are almost identical, they both have the same stroke, the only difference is the size of the bore. Heres why that is so important: The 305s biggest limitation is the size of the intake valve. Due to the small bore, the intake valve in a 305 head is extremely shrouded. The size of the bore also limits the size of the valve. The 350 has a larger bore. Thus, why not use the engine with the larger bore (350) allowing a larger intake valve and less shrouding? It makes sense...

 

No, it is those extra 45 cubic inches that will do most 305s in. Valve shrouding isn't really as major of a consideration. You can easily run both engines with 1.94 intake valves but 45 extra cubes is 45 extra cubes.

Still, a 305 in good shape and already in your car is economically more sensible to build, as long as you choose parts that will work well with your next, presumably larger, smallblock.

 

OK, I was gonna mention displacement also, sense the larger bore of the 350 gives it those extra cubes.

Price a good set of heads and a cam for a 305 and the GM 350HO doesn't seem like such a bad deal!

 

Yeah, that's why you want to save as much money as you can by porting your own heads and doing the installation yourself.

The $$$ a person sinks into this hot rod business sure adds up in a hurry

 

Yep, thats why I'm still driving the stock LO3... for now!

 

Nothing wrong with Purple

Is there any way of knowing if the cam has already been replaced? I mean, are there any numbers on it I could look up? The car feels awfully strong for a stock LG4, taking the weight into consideration. I only have eurobox cars to compare with, and I can keep up with similar hp cars with a lot less weight.

 

I'm not going to argue, all I'm saying is that a 305 can be built also.

Why are 305 and 350 parts interchangable if the engines are so different?

Why is my 305 laying down mildly built 350s?

If a 350 and a 305 have the same mods. (which I doubt I will find one) wouldn't they run neck and neck with the 350 pulling a little faster?

Why is it that so many people have disbeliefs about 305s?

I also know a guy that has an 86 Camaro with a 305HO (strictly drag car) and is pulling close to 700 hsp (pulling 9s). How is this? Why is he able to get that much perforamance out of a 305?

If the bore is so important, how caom my car is running like it is without being bored?

As stated before, I can back what I'm saying. I'm taking the car to time trials soon and will post my times just to prove it. And don't give the bull about it being driver error, if anyone has a driving error it's me (have gone through 2 clutches in 3 years...LMAO)

 

Hello thanks for the repply.

So you are telling me that its difficult to find our cars there?

That the best option would be to import the car from the USA?

I will check the market, the import laws in spain, I dont plan to sell everything that I have accumulate over my life to move, so I will nedd to ship a lot of stuff from here. Also I know I could get a better example than my current car taking in account the prices of our cars in USA, plus that shipping (My car is completely stock LO3 92 RS, could sell it for about 7.000$ in my country, yes is a rape but it cost me almost 9.000$ in December).

Thanks again for the info, hope you can achieve those numbers with the expected cash.

 

Hello very nice engine bay you have there, very clean.

Have you altered the weight of the car in any form?

There are many ways to obtain a fast car, It appears to be simplyer to obtain more Hp with a 350 than with a 305, apparently because the way a big bore interacts in the 4 strokes with the air fuel mixture, you always get more Hp in the same displacement with bigger bores. For example a 302 and 305 identical mods indentical cars the 302 makes more Hp at the same RPM (the torque is more dependent of displacement and stroke apparently) a 327 vs a 334, the 327 makes more power (Being the 334 a 305 with a 400 crank).

I think I will try to get anything I could with the 305, with simple mods. If I ever fell the need to get a more powerfull engine I will look into a motow block with very big bore (4.125 or 4.2) with a small stroke, Im not interested In raising my weels using drag tires or something like that (I think that would happen with the 415 Motow that World Products makes complete crate 7.000) but then i will have to worry about a very heavy dutty transmission, driveshaft, rearend, chassis mods, suspenssion mods, traction problems, etc.

As it is now the car went pretty fast from 70mph to 122mph I will never put the car at a higher speed unless it is highly modified. Maybe when I had Put Better tires, weels, brakes (Thinking Baer), Suspenssion, Chassis reinforcements. I will start with external engine mods. Ultimately you can make a prettey fast 305 as vortech had a new blower setup for carburated engines that will permit a low raise hood (No hood hole in my car )

 

I cant believe that you are actually arging that a 305 and a 350 with the same mods would be neck and neck. You have just showed that you have no idea what you are talking about . Since you havent even been to the track and all you have is "yeah I can beat 350s on the street" ***** talk , I wont even address your claims. remember that there are people here that know more than you so please make sure that you know what you are talking about before you try to argue a point that is pretty much WRONG.

 

Guys, please...I really could do with this thread not getting locked, I feel I am really getting somewhere.


There are plenty of good examples here, as well as some nasty ones. Spain, I don't know. I'm sure they are about. You must ask yourself if it's just a car you want to import, or if it's your pride and joy. Personally, I'd import my Camaro to the US if I moved there! It's just more of a family member than an automobile.

Si

 

Read what I posted! I said the 350 would be faster but you can bet that the 305 would be on the *** end of it. Christ, read before you post. I also know that there alot of people here that know a lot more than me but I also know that when they say a 305 can not be built to produce a lot of power for cheaper than a 350 is a lie. That was the point I was making in the first place. And yes, I am beating SOME 350s on the street, how is that "***** talk"? Anwser the questions I have posted for me, make me learn something, I didn't post them there to be a smart ***! I want to know!!!! I NEVER ONCE STATED THAT A 305 COULD OUT RUN A HIGLY BUILT 350 OR ONE WITH THE SAME MODS. Deal with the fact that a 305 can produce a lot more power than what you want to acknowledge!
I want to know why my 305, in which I was told couldn't be done by a few senior members here a few months back, is pulling close to 300 horses. I only spent $1700 into the engine which includes the chrome parts, paint, and machine shop.

 

Chrimv :

Ok, everyone bow down to the 305HO ***.

Here's a nice little recipe for a 343 hp 305.....

http://www.angelfire.com/nb/thirdgen/343hp305.html


Feel Better now.....:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: