If you don't want to do the job right, then take it somewhere that will. If you have a car with 150,000 miles on it with the original fuel pump and it goes out then you take 3 or so hours and put a quality pump in there. You shouldn't need to replace it like it was a filter, so why cut a hole that you won't need again for years. Do it right, even if you do have to do it again it shouldn't be as hard the second time.

 

this a the smartest post in here

 

I personally know two people who have cut access holes for the pump, but they didn't have the time or means to drop the tank. If you have the tools and the time to drop the tank, do it. If you can't, then cut a hole. It's not like gas fumes suffocate you if you cut a hole, and it's not likely that if/when you eventually sell the car that potential buyers will pull back the carpet to look to see if you've cut holes in the floorboard. It's all in what really suits your needs the best.

 

When the Aurora first came out around 1995 my Dad leased one. Nice car. Anyway, one of the little things that went wrong shortly after he received it was one of the halogen bulbs shattered inside the molded aerodynamic lens.

He took it in to the dealer and was amused to learn that they had virtually completely disassembled the entire front corner/end of the car in order to remove the *undamaged* lens and put in a new one along with a new bulb--quite a bit of shop time and parts expense. He remarked that it would have been very simple to attach a length of small hose to a vacuum cleaner and simply suck up the tiny bits of broken glass inside of the original lens.

My guess is that the total bill for this "right-way" adventure would have been well over $1000, but of course, he never saw it as the car was a lease. Be careful and forewarned if you drop off the car at the dealer and tell them to replace a shattered bulb the "right way."

Does anyone have a Chevrolet shop manual that lists the complete number of things that need to be done in order for the job to be done the *right way?* My guess is that most of the people dropping the tank are still taking non-GM-approved short cuts. :nono:

 

so your saying that it would be better to cut the floor.. right?

 

"Yes, I am swaying more to the idea of making an access hole but doing a nice and safe job of it."

"I agree that the hole should be made safely and covered/sealed properly. If you are hesitant about your ability to do this and create a leak-free connection with the hard lines then drop the tank. Simple enough."



Kevin Johnson:
Madmax,

What would you think about making a custom panel of at least the same gauge as the floor and with edges that substantially overlap the opening? Maybe nut inserts could be spaced evenly around the opening so that the panel could be securely bolted down with either a rubber gasket or caulking of some sort.

I have an ATL fuel cell and that is essentially how the crash container surrounding the bladder is constructed.

As for the best way to cut and rejoin the fuel pipes, I don't know but it sounds like that might not be needed if the access hole is large enough (?). I agree about the leaking fuel being very worrisome. You might find out about that when your garage goes up.

I realize that with making the panel, etc. the amount of work involved would approach that of dropping the tank once. After that, though, you'd save some time.

madmax:
Thats a better idea. Most of the ones I have seen pics of are just a plate screwed to the floor with sheet metal screws and sealed with silicone. Eh....

As for the lines, a double flare is the best way. Next, i'd use a bubbled end with FI hose and a hose clamp. Compression fittings suck, sometimes they are fine and sometimes they just seep just for the hell of it. They really are more trouble than they are worth IMO.

I cant even get my rear carpet out of the way in 15 minutes, let alone pull a plate and pump too.

 

Hey man, it's your car. If you want to cut a hole in it, go for it. If you want to cut holes in your inner fenders to get to the plugs easier, more power to you as well. The point is, it's your car and your decision. If I have to change my pump again, I sure as hell ain't tearing the rear out again. I'm cutting the b!tch. But then again, it's my car, and if I say the right way to change it is to cut the floor, then it's the right way for me and I don't give a flying fu(k what anyone thinks. When I'm done it'll look like it was a factory deal too.

 

:rockon:

 

you can get a set of flanging pliers from eastwood, actually they are modified vise grips and i think there available elsewhere for less,but eastwood is conveinient. With these you could make a recessed flange around whatever sized hole you decide you need. make a patch that fits in the recess out of alluminum. drill holes every inch or two in the patch and use sheetmetal screws to attach it to the flange you made. put a little silicone inbetween the two.

as for the lines i believe GM uses an inverted flare, these adapters are available, to convert them to AN 37' flare. Then get some -6 an braided line and fittings and replace the hard lines with the braid. this is a little time consuming its a clean reliable and practicle way of making an access panel.

 

Im sorry if this was already said but I didnt bother to read all the other posts...anyways you dont have to cut the exhaust or completely drop the axle. I managed to take the wheels off and was able to get the exhaust out of the way enough to clear it. I just disconnected the exhaust from the cat, lowered the rear as far as i could without stretching the brake lines, and moved the exhaust over to the wheel area...worked fine.

I was told to cut it but our cars are unrigid enough as it is..now you want to cut holes in it....

 

Yeah, I was looking at that Eastwood tool too (someone mentioned them). About $60. JC Whitney has an airhammer flanging attachment for around $15. Anybody tried it out?

I have an air-nibbler for making the hole (circular is probably best). I don't think the floor is thicker than 18 gauge (?).

Thanks for the info on the hardlines and hoses too.

 

Most air tool companies make a panel flanger that works pretty well; I have had one for years. You might check into one of those, they don't cost much more than the vise grip version, and work much better/faster. They usually have a hole punch function built in, too, which is handy in itself.

 

I did mine in about 3 hrs, with beer breaks and chasing my kid off and doing honey dos. I was my first time doing this, i used the repair manual for my car and did it.

 

Go with what GTA-SPD did, that is the proper way. Cutting and cheesedicking will only cause you heartache. This is a job that just takes time and the dividends will pay off.

 

I had to change my pump twice.
The first time was due to a piece of ribbon that got past the old torn strainer and got stuck in the pump impeller. I suggest that you get a locking gas cap. Previous owner didn't have one on when I got car. Ribbon probably was floating around for months.
The second time 10/26/02 it was due to the pump being constantly running, with or without ignition on. (Still haven't figured that problem out yet) working on it.

Anyhow, the first time dropping the tank was a B@*ch! I did my work on a service station lift (conventional drop tank way). Book time is 4hrs.
I read about others cutting the floor. I thought about doing that. But you would have to cut a large hole to get the fuel sender/ pump assy. out. The fuel lines are steel and wrap around the tank to the left. Making it hard to remove the assy. Also wouldn't it weaken the body structure (flexing etc.)?

The second time around was much easier because I knew what was involved. I used a TRANS jack to support the rearend. It allowed me to lower and raise the rearend with ease. Most problems are with the fuel filler neck, twisting and turning the tank to get it out and in. You can cut a section of the neck (recommend on a NEW fuel tank, GAS FUMES on old tank may start FIRE) and add a short FUEL tank hose (NAPA etc) with clamps as a joint. Next time if ever you need to service the pump etc. You don't have to drop the rearend so far down to get the pump out.

Now back to my Fuel pump run on problem..........

 

ARGH!!!! the gas tank filler neck.. Just the thought of it raises the hair on the back of my neck thinking about the first time i changed a fuel pump while trying to leave the rear alone!!! I fought with that silly thing for hours

 

Good job. A lot better than cutting a hole, always better to take your time and do the job right rather than shortcuts and cheesedicking.

 

I made an access hole. There should have been one there in the first place. There is on some newer GM cars. I made a nice cover plate and sealed it up just fine. If you don't have the skill to customize somthing and do good solid work don't judge others by your own lack of skill.
By the way, a air hammer with a pannel cutter works good to cut the hole.

 

Yeah dude, I bet your an excellent mechanic to!!LOL, do you drill a hole in your oil filter to get the oil out or do you just spin it off.
Anyone who cuts a hole no matter how clean lacks skill to get the fuel pump out the CORRECT way. Watch what you say about skill.

 

I wouldnt care if it took me 3 days to change the pump. I would never think about cutting a hole in my car to make changing the pump easier or faster. Although I know my car will never be worth a whole of lot money I still think more of it then to butcher it up like that. That would drive me nuts knowing I had a hole in my floor. The kind of people who cut holes in their cars to change fuel pumps would probably use black silicone to "fix" a leaky t-top. I dont mean to **** anybody off but if you are going to do a job do it right.

 

You said it!

However, I guess any way people do it, it is not a job I look forward to do, once was enough.

 

You're not pissing anybody off (I don't think?); I think you just have a certain idea of "stockness" or "rightness."

I guess I have removed a few too many stock parts off cars of many makes and then find the replacement parts from the factory with an access hole bored through them or some such. Usually these mods save quite a bit of time. But, on the other hand, I really don't think there would be a stampede of dealer service departments pushing to have a 4 hour book time job made into a .5 one. That's their bread and butter: open your wallet wide!

Glad to hear that GM is putting access holes in some of their cars now (like many other companies have for years and years). But purists could still drop the tank, right?

I have been checking out cars in the wrecking yards to see if I could find an unmolested hard fuel line assembly for the tank. That way I could have the separated hard lines made up and ready to go. So far, though, whoever has gotten to the car first has really mangled them.

Does anyone know for sure what years of fuel pump hard lines are the same? I have a 91 RS.

 

Yes, I'm a pretty fair mechanic.
No, I don't drill a hole in the oil filter.
No, I don't lack the skill to do it the HARD way.

Major concept for you: It is possible to modify/improve a car if you have the abillity.

In fact every mod in my sig has been an improvement by my standards.

I guess by your standards I should have left it stock.

 

Cutting a hole to get the fuel pump out is not an improvement or a modification, many people on this board have said that, it probably took you longer to do that than it would have to do it right. A fuel pump is not something that gets done often enough to warrent a quick change trap door or whatever you have now, but now it is part of your car and you will have to live with it. My car has to much potential value to do that.

 

JokerRS, hope you don't mind me commenting here.

Benny, a long way back in this thread I think the point was made that if you don't want to take the time to do the modification correctly and safely then you should drop the tank. It is a modification (that is the analytic meaning of the term 'modification') just like the modified air box on your own car (from your sig).

I think this point was also made. Now, a skilled bodyman/sheetmetal worker could probably whip this out in about an hour having all the right tools and skills at hand.


This doesn't make sense.

If that is true then why do the OEMs put one in?? Including GM?? Remember, you're arguing that the factory way is the right way.

Benny, just like your mods can be changed back by future owners so could this one. We are not talking rocket science to mig weld a metal patch back in. A skilled worker could probably do this so that you could not detect the mod.

 

I stand corrected.

 

were beating a dead horse here
every one will need to just agree to disagree

 

Works for me 91banditt2.
Peace

 

WOW!
Can this post become some kind of world record holder on 3rd gen for most read or longest running?

On the positive side, this post accomplished the following:

Every trick or finer point has been described for dropping the tank without terrorizing the filler neck or the exhaust system.

For those that can rationalize the need to cut the floor, all the pros & cons have been described.

For those who choose to cut the floor, the entire gambet of methods have been outlined from "butch" to custom fabrication.

Anyone that reads this entire post should recieve a PhD in fuel pump removal & replacement on a 3rd gen.

Sincerely, FJK