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Project Stealthram / AFR195 355 project finally almost finished...

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Project Stealthram / AFR195 355 project finally almost finished...

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Old 09-30-2002, 02:41 PM
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Project Stealthram / AFR195 355 project finally almost finished...




I did a lot of work this weekend. We'll have rw dyno numbers by the 21st of Oct for all who are curious. I wanted to start this thread and update it regularly with new info as the project is finished. Thanks!
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Old 09-30-2002, 04:57 PM
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Wow that's a great looking engine!

What made you choose the AFR 195 over the 190?

Also, are those projected HP/torque numbers in your sig, or did you do a dyno?

Great job!
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Old 09-30-2002, 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Christos
Wow that's a great looking engine!
Thank You! I've put a lot of detail work in this one including removing every last piece in the engine bay, repainting, and then replacing everything with new or like-new parts. The woman says this thing has to be reliable and look good. I said it has to be fast. A compromise :-)

What made you choose the AFR 195 over the 190?
Well, taken right off the afr website it all boils down to:
"The exceptional flow
characteristics, ideal operating range
of 2000 rpm to 6500 rpm"
vs
"The exceptional flow
characteristics, ideal operating range
of idle to 5500 rpm"

I'm stalling at 3500 rpm so any low end numbers are a waste basicly.
Also, are those projected HP/torque numbers in your sig, or did you do a dyno?
[/B]
Yes, apologies --they are just computer generated numbers. Not from desktop dyno software, but a $3K package that is supposedly much more accurate. How accurate, we'll find out Oct 21st. If anyone wants to come watch, I'll be in tulsa at Fastchip!
Great job!
Thanks again!
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Old 09-30-2002, 05:58 PM
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Cool beans.

What cam are you running? Do you program your own proms? I figure this is a SD setup, so i'm curious.

Ive wanted to toss a pair of AFR's on a ZZ4 shortblock with a S/R for a while now, and I am curious what kind of numbers could be expected with that setup. I'm still quite a bit away from being able to afford it though.

Can't wait for the dyno on this, Thanks for sharing!
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Old 09-30-2002, 07:02 PM
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500 horsepower... with air conditioning? Hot damn you're a lucky man.

How come I can never come across those types...

:rockon: Rock on.
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Old 09-30-2002, 09:15 PM
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OHHH SWEET! Look what came in the mail today! Too bad it was on order since september.





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Old 10-01-2002, 10:29 AM
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A few shots of the the car...




A shot after some more work done on the engine....




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Old 10-01-2002, 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Christos
Cool beans.

What cam are you running? Do you program your own proms? I figure this is a SD setup, so i'm curious.

Ive wanted to toss a pair of AFR's on a ZZ4 shortblock with a S/R for a while now, and I am curious what kind of numbers could be expected with that setup. I'm still quite a bit away from being able to afford it though.

Can't wait for the dyno on this, Thanks for sharing!
Okay, the cam is a retro roller Comp Cams 224/224 110 560/560. Free advise, we tried over 50 cam grinds in this dyno. Our criteria was power from 3K to 6.5K and pulling good vaccum. This software liked the above cam the best, and stated that I should see 14.9" Hg.

I dont program my own proms as of right now, but I will definetly be looking into it soon. I would really like to dig into ed wrights chip eventually, compare it to my original prom, and learn from there. My buddy has a zz4 shortbock with some fastburns instead of afrs. He's projecting 430HP with his combo. You'll definetly see more power if you use some afrs. A gm crate motor (zz4) is definetly a great way to go. I still dont know how everything's going to turn out with my motor once it runs, and I'm sporting zero warranty.
I cant wait for the dyno on this either... stay tuned!
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Old 10-01-2002, 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Xenodrgn
500 horsepower... with air conditioning? Hot damn you're a lucky man.

How come I can never come across those types...

:rockon: Rock on.
Dude, I wont live without a/c around here...it's just too hot. Becides, if you want to take a girl out on dates in this thing, she'll want to ride in the a/c or she'll hate it.
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Old 10-01-2002, 11:56 AM
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Here is the motor a few stages back...
If all these pictures arent loading, just hit refresh a few times on your browser. AOL hosting really sucks.

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Old 10-22-2002, 12:25 AM
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Here are the final Rear wheel HP numbers. Account for approx 75-80hp loss in driveline. I have Ed Wright on video saying "Congratulations, This is the most powerful non-blown tuned port (aka mini ram, stealth ram, super ram, tpi) motor I have ever run on my dyno. Great job, Jerod" So pat my self on the back...it's fun to brag a little. Thanks for listening to the story...

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Old 10-22-2002, 12:30 AM
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graph loading...
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Old 10-22-2002, 12:35 AM
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tryin' again
Attached Thumbnails Project Stealthram / AFR195 355 project finally almost finished...-jerods-dyno-run.jpg  
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Old 10-22-2002, 12:57 AM
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Nice!

Good to see some good numbers put down on a Stealth Ram setup finally...

Those after a chip tune?
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Old 10-22-2002, 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by madmax
Nice!

Good to see some good numbers put down on a Stealth Ram setup finally...

Those after a chip tune?
Thanks madmax

Yeah buddy, my stock chip and my superchip both needed tuning badly. The motor would run rich at idle and lean at part throttle up. Throwing the 30s in there made everything more reasonable, but it was then mega rich at idle. I took the fuel pressure way down and advanced the base timing clear to 22 degrees to get her to run without glowing the headers. Running like this, it was decent to drive but terrible performance. We guess about 260 RWHP on the drive up based on the subsequent initial dyno pulls. The first pull with Ed Wright's first stealth ram "best guess" chip ran 308HP. We were really depressed, but everytime Ed came out of his secret room he had 20 more HP to plug in. It was a miraculous scene. All 10? dyno pulls increased by 10-30HP when he changed the chip. I have about 40 degrees total timing in my chip and Ed said that the top end liked a lean mixture. That may help some of you doing custom tuning w/o the luxury of Ed Wright at your back door.
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Old 10-22-2002, 05:03 AM
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pretty damn good numbers if ya ask me!!!!
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i wish i had someone near by......
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Old 10-22-2002, 10:48 AM
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Maybe I missed it, but what kind of cam do you have in it? Hydro roller?

Chris
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Old 10-22-2002, 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by 12sMustang
Maybe I missed it, but what kind of cam do you have in it? Hydro roller?

Chris
Yep, it's an old 1969 4bolt 350 with a retro roller cam in it. Specs on it are 224/224 110 560/560. Ed Wright thought that I needed 4-6 degrees on the exhaust side to make the most power possible. I seem to think he's right on that once you undnerstand the sheer multitude of combinations he has seen in the past. I will probably be switching to a 224/230 cam in the next year or so. Even if it just helps the n/a power a little, it will definetly help when I decide to hit the gas. Any opinions?
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Old 10-22-2002, 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by JMatlock88
Yes, apologies --they are just computer generated numbers. Not from desktop dyno software, but a $3K package that is supposedly much more accurate. How accurate, we'll find out Oct 21st. If anyone wants to come watch, I'll be in tulsa at Fastchip!

Thanks again! [/B]
Hmmm... 503hp, thats what DD2000 said my combo makes. I tend not to belive it though.
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Old 10-22-2002, 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by JMatlock88
Yep, it's an old 1969 4bolt 350 with a retro roller cam in it. Specs on it are 224/224 110 560/560. Ed Wright thought that I needed 4-6 degrees on the exhaust side to make the most power possible. I seem to think he's right on that once you undnerstand the sheer multitude of combinations he has seen in the past. I will probably be switching to a 224/230 cam in the next year or so. Even if it just helps the n/a power a little, it will definetly help when I decide to hit the gas. Any opinions?
That's a damned big lift cam. How does it idle? Your cam's specs are actually pretty close to mine, though I have 48 less cubes. I think you have an impressive SBC. 380 at the ground is a bunch from any N/A combo. Good job!

Chris
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Old 10-22-2002, 03:41 PM
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VERY nice numbers! It's good to see a healthy HSR combo on the dyno finally. Get that thing to the track and show us some 11 second slips.
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Old 10-22-2002, 06:13 PM
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Impressive. Is that with the Street or Competition 195's?
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Old 10-22-2002, 10:31 PM
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I am runnin' the street 68cc 195s w/ about 10.7:1
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Old 10-22-2002, 10:55 PM
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OMG thats awesome!!!! Congratualtions!
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Old 10-23-2002, 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by 12sMustang
That's a damned big lift cam. How does it idle? Your cam's specs are actually pretty close to mine, though I have 48 less cubes. I think you have an impressive SBC. 380 at the ground is a bunch from any N/A combo. Good job!

Chris
It idles nicely with sufficient vaccum for brakes and cruise. I really like the sound at idle, and part throttle is nice too thanks to the chip.
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Old 10-23-2002, 01:22 AM
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Oh, one other tid bit... The tach is off about 500rpm around 6500! whew! My tach reads 6500 when i'm really spinning 7000. That pull we really were twisting her. I just now got my msd pro billet distrib in the mail. Too bad it was too late for the dyno run. Any predictions on peak HP gains using this distrib vs stock? It would be interesting to note...
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Old 10-23-2002, 02:13 AM
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Nice engine, awesome power

What i really wanna know about are two things:

1. How hard is it to retrofit a roller cam?

2. What tranny is backing that beast up, i blew my stock trans out, I've gotta feeling i'm gonna blow my new trans out. After i bolt up my nitrous kit, i KNOW i'm gonna drop it....and while i'm at it, what about the rear end?
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Old 10-23-2002, 11:16 AM
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Sweet a$$ numbers!!!
Too bad i cant see the pics for some reaon.....
im still running the stock chip in my motor, and its just like you said, FP down, Timing up, good to drive, not terrible by any means, but I know theres alot more power lurking in the chip!
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Old 10-23-2002, 02:14 PM
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Hot damn you have me excited. I'm about 50% of the way through my engine swap, and we're very similar in specs. The only difference is my engine is a 396 with 10:1 compression and my cam is a 236/242 112 lsa with .555 int .576 exh. Other than that, I'm running a Stealthram (like you) and AFR 195's (like you). Hopefully the extra cubes will bump me to an even 400 rwhp, but we'll see. If my power isn't up where I want it N/A, my whole rotating assembly is forged with billet splayed caps to hold up to the NX kit waiting at home

Congrats on a killer set up, I can't wait to see where mine ends up

Edit: Just noticed you're running the street ported 195's. That makes me all the more excited because I'm running the 100% competition CNC porting and I have an extra 41 cubic inches... hopefully that will give me 400 rwhp . Congrats again!

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Old 10-23-2002, 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by JMatlock88
Yep, it's an old 1969 4bolt 350 with a retro roller cam in it. Specs on it are 224/224 110 560/560. Ed Wright thought that I needed 4-6 degrees on the exhaust side to make the most power possible. I seem to think he's right on that once you undnerstand the sheer multitude of combinations he has seen in the past. I will probably be switching to a 224/230 cam in the next year or so. Even if it just helps the n/a power a little, it will definetly help when I decide to hit the gas. Any opinions?
yea i have an idea for you that wouldnt be too hard at all........ just slap a set of 1.7 ratio rockers on the exhaust side to give urself a little more exhaust lift. but ur talking about degrees which would require the cam..... well its a thought
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Marshall89ws6
yea i have an idea for you that wouldnt be too hard at all........ just slap a set of 1.7 ratio rockers on the exhaust side to give urself a little more exhaust lift. but ur talking about degrees which would require the cam..... well its a thought

Yep, that wont really work. Not to mention clearance and binding issues... .560 is already a lot of lift. Thanks for the input nontheless!
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by JMatlock88
Yep, that wont really work. Not to mention clearance and binding issues... .560 is already a lot of lift. Thanks for the input nontheless!
yea my buddy just did that with his stang....... and i saw urs and it popped in my head but then i was just like..... wait he means degrees.... **** haha
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by ontogenesis
Nice engine, awesome power

What i really wanna know about are two things:

1. How hard is it to retrofit a roller cam?

2. What tranny is backing that beast up, i blew my stock trans out, I've gotta feeling i'm gonna blow my new trans out. After i bolt up my nitrous kit, i KNOW i'm gonna drop it....and while i'm at it, what about the rear end?
The retro roller is simple...just a lifter and cam swap. Everything else is the same.
My trans is a 700r4 with a torco 3100 lockup stall w/ antibalooning. It has kevlar bands, carbon fiber clutches, other nice internals, and a b&m cooler and megashifter. The driveshaft is an stock fbody aluminum shaft. The rear is a 10 bolt with 28 spline moser axles, cclip elim, slp posi, 3.73 GM gears, and a summit stud girdle.
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by Brad
Hot damn you have me excited. I'm about 50% of the way through my engine swap, and we're very similar in specs. The only difference is my engine is a 396 with 10:1 compression and my cam is a 236/242 112 lsa with .555 int .576 exh. Other than that, I'm running a Stealthram (like you) and AFR 195's (like you). Hopefully the extra cubes will bump me to an even 400 rwhp, but we'll see. If my power isn't up where I want it N/A, my whole rotating assembly is forged with billet splayed caps to hold up to the NX kit waiting at home

Congrats on a killer set up, I can't wait to see where mine ends up

Edit: Just noticed you're running the street ported 195's. That makes me all the more excited because I'm running the 100% competition CNC porting and I have an extra 41 cubic inches... hopefully that will give me 400 rwhp . Congrats again!
Dude, you're gonna have a lot more than 400rwhp. That is a truely insane combo. The heads are awesome. The cubes are awesome. ***if you have a chip to run it properly*** Man, that's nuts. I hope to swap into some more cubes someday... Heck, I expect 400rwhp after a 6 speed. You'll have much much more...
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:28 PM
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How did you set your camshaft endplay?
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:32 PM
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Had Morton Machine degree it all in. I didnt have the tools...
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:34 PM
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Also, most graphs I see have torque curves that are flat at some point. This is not the case with this engine. Comments? I know the charts for tq and HP are different and the tq ones favors a negative slope but still.

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Old 10-23-2002, 03:36 PM
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fyi I'm using a cam button
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by GofasterFirebird
Also, most graphs I see have torque curves that are flat at some point. This is not the case with this engine. Comments? I know the charts for tq and HP are different and the tq ones favors a negative slope but still.
? someone smarter than me please answer him
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:52 PM
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Will someone volunteer their server space for some video files of the dyno pulls? I think it would be fun to share. If you would, I would greatly appreciate it. The files will be pretty big, so you'll have to have a lot of space and bandwidth. Thanks!
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Old 10-23-2002, 05:44 PM
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Nice #'s....can't wait to see some track times. Very good results from the HSR. What valve covers are you running? I really don't like the ones I have and I wouldn't mind replacing them. TIA!

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Old 10-23-2002, 06:37 PM
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A huge congradulations. that's a sheetload of power!
So your running the 224/224. On the graph it shows it peaking about 6000-6500, is that the actual engine rpm, or is that with your tach being off.
Also, did you install that cam straight up, or with advance or retard? I'm asking because that is one of my cam candidates.
thanx
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Old 10-23-2002, 06:41 PM
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Car: 1985 Camaro, 2002 Trailblazer
Engine: V8 and 4.2L I6
Transmission: 4L60E's
Wow...i love you man...if you were a chick, i'd ask you to marry me. The engine is sweet as hell and the rest of it sounds incredibly built too. I'm lookin into the trans rebuild. It's none of my biz, but might i ask how much a machine of this magnitude takes to build?
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Old 10-23-2002, 07:44 PM
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:hail: your car, did you have to modify your hood at all or did it clear okay?
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Old 10-23-2002, 08:31 PM
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Email me [email protected] about hosting The Video's.

Killer Combo!
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Old 10-24-2002, 01:37 AM
  #46  
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Location: Stillwater, OK
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Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 DFI Superram w/ R-Trim
Transmission: Probuilt 700r4
....can't wait to see some track times. Very good results from the HSR. What valve covers are you running?
Me neither! I'm running corvette magnesium alloy valve covers. They are clearanced for the big rockers (easy with a die grinder) but are still very very light and short. They are the absolute lightest valve covers I could find, and since I really tried to eliminate unnecessary weight they were the perfect choice. I had them wrinkle powder coated black to contrast the ceramic coated and aluminum color of most everything else.

your car, did you have to modify your hood at all or did it clear okay?
I'm still workin' on the hood. I'm within a quarter inch of clearing with the stock hood with the braces cut out. I am considering modifying the intake to make it fit. Otherwise, I'm debating a steel cowl vs a bolt on ram air hood. (II or I?)
A huge congradulations. that's a sheetload of power!
So your running the 224/224. On the graph it shows it peaking about 6000-6500, is that the actual engine rpm, or is that with your tach being off.
Also, did you install that cam straight up, or with advance or retard? I'm asking because that is one of my cam candidates.
thanx
That is the actual engine rpm because the dyno reads it off of an inductor attached to the #1 plug wire (not having anything to do with the factory tach). This is the way I could tell how bad the stock tach was off... The cam is installed straight up. Go with a 224/(228-230) cam. Ed Wright was positive it would have made more power. Go figure...
Wow...i love you man...if you were a chick, i'd ask you to marry me. The engine is sweet as hell and the rest of it sounds incredibly built too. I'm lookin into the trans rebuild. It's none of my biz, but might i ask how much a machine of this magnitude takes to build?
Cool... Nope, sorry not a chick...not many chicks on this site sorry to say. Furthermore, there arent a whole lot of chicks that are really into cars. I think I've got 16,000 in it now at least. I got lucky because the trans, rear, and exterior paint were already completed when I bought the car. There is actually a whole lot more money in the car than what I actually have in it. I have every reciept in a book about as think as an encyclopedia. Someday I will get out the calculator and start adding it all up. The car was once a sad grocery getter at one point in the late 90s belive it or not.
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Old 10-24-2002, 01:54 AM
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Awesome machine you've got there. Please report back any increase you get from that distributor... that would be of interest to all of us
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Old 10-24-2002, 12:48 PM
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Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 DFI Superram w/ R-Trim
Transmission: Probuilt 700r4
I dont plan on putting the car on the dyno again after putting on the distributor so I guess we'll never really know. My butt dyno isnt very accurate. I will probably put her back on the dyno next summer when it gets a t56 just to satisify my curiousity of how much RWHP it will free up.
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Old 10-24-2002, 02:40 PM
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Car: 89 GTA
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Axle/Gears: 9 bolt-3.73
Good numbers. What exhaust did you run on the dyno?
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Old 10-24-2002, 06:26 PM
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Location: Stillwater, OK
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Car: 1991 Formula
Engine: 355 DFI Superram w/ R-Trim
Transmission: Probuilt 700r4
Dual 3" non-mandrel bent exhaust from local shop with 2 3" 40 series flows. They dump in front of the rear wheels through stainless steel lt1 style tips.

edit: I changed my mind about running the mufflex 4" setup...$$$

Last edited by JMatlock88; 10-24-2002 at 06:29 PM.
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