89RsPower!

i've heard people say that they've had gear whine with different types of synthetic gear lube as well as standard gear lubes of the same weight.. what i want to know is if anyone here has had similiar problems and also what brand of synthetic gear lube out there (that i dont have to order like amsoil) have people had the best results with?

25THRSS

mobil 1 synthetic gear lube here and no whine at all.

89IRO

I don't see a need for synthetic. Just put in what it was designed to run with. No need to get fancy with the synthetic. -89IRO

RB83L69

Run the synthetic. Step right up and get your 5-6 RWHP. Let the people who run dinosaur juice wonder how your otherwise identical car always seems to be just a little bit quicker. It doesn't cause whine, I don't know where you heard that, but I wouldn't pay much attention to whatever else that person has to say.

25THRSS

so very true!

89IRO

No thanks to the synthetic. The only synthetic I would EVER run would be if I put a new engine in my car (synthetic motor oil). -89IRO

ede

i've have run or am running amsoil or M1 in my cars and trucks with not problems for any of them.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

And that has what, exactly, to do with a gear lube question? I see, it appears to have a lot to do with ignorance.

So, 89RsPower!, you don't want to "order" AMSOIL. Planning ahead a week is more than you are willing to do for your ride? Check your Yellow Pages, it is most likely available to you locally either through a dealer, or some retailer has it on the shelf. You can also email AMSOIL for info about who has it available in your area.

Don't let a slight difference in the way you "normally" do things get in the way of getting the best.

Oh, I have seen gear whine go away by using synthetic, but never heard of it being "caused" by using synthetic.

Dewey316

an interesting point, when i got my eaton posi, it says to use dyno juice, and not synthetic.

RB83L69

I've seen alot of the posi units say that; i don't really know why, as they all work just fine with it. The friction modifier additive is DEFINITELY required with synthetic, gowever, while you can often get away without it if you run dinosaur skweezins.

Right now I only have 2 posi units in my cars, one is a 8½" with a stock one, and one is a 7½" with an Auburn Pro; both work great with synthetic and additive.

89IRO

Because we were talking about the use of synthetic gear lube, and I said I wouldn't use any synthetic oil unless I put it in a new engine. And you're right it does have to do with ignorance now doesn't it? You don't know that my car has 201,000 miles on it and it burns oil pretty good, and I'm not about to put expensive synthetic in it. Please don't tell me that using synthetic will magically fix my rings because that is a bunch of BS. If/when I put a new motor in her, synthetic is definately going in. As for tranny and rear, I don't see a need, I don't even know if they make synthetic for the tranny though. Sorry, but when my mechanic tells me not to use synthetic in the rear (which he re-built), I think I would listen to him. He's been in the same building for 40 years and I have never had a problem with his work. Plus, my dad has had bad experiences using synthetic in equipment that previously ran conventional oil its whole life. So there you have, I'm right, and you're wrong. No need to argue with me, because I know what's best for my car right now. :lala:

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Enjoy your state of bliss.

Morley

That's a crock. Lets see hard proof on this one.

RB83L69

http://www.redlineoil.com/dyno.htm Here's Red Line compared to Mobil 1. Mobil 1 produces similar results over dino juice. I'm at work, don't have time to research it for you.

Considering that drive line losses in a typical RWD car are on the order of 50 HP, sometimes more, even a small reduction in friction pays off big in RWHP.

If you choose to think it's a "crock", go right on ahead.... it's been measured too many times by too many people in too many different applications to dismiss the benefits of synthetic lubes out of hand. That is right on up there with the Flat Earth Society.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Only thing I'll say to contradict what RB has said is that friction modifier (posi additive) isn't needed when using AMSOIL Series 2000 75W90 gear lube.

Only thing I'll add is, if you need "proof" synthetics are better, then you probably also need proof that radial tires are better than bias ply.

89IRO

O.K. then. I do believe synthetics offer more power (very little) and in the case of motor oil, I believe synthetics offer better protection. Now when somebody tells me that I should open up my differential which just got new bearings and seals, new gasket and fresh silicon, to put in synthetic lube, I would say that is rediculous. Especially when I'm just putten around town most of the time. Sorry if I'm not like you guys who want to "kill" an import at every red light, and am looking for that "extra gain". BTW, is there synthetic tranny fluid? Like I said earlier, new engine = synthetic. But for now, I don't car to throw my money in the wind. "my state of bliss"- whatever dude, sounds to me like you had nothing else to say since you found out how wrong you are!!! . Keep your little synthetic thing up in your head with you O.K? Sounds to me like this guy is an Amsoil dealer/vendor or something. I know what's right for my car and I don't need anybody to tell me otherwise. Have a nice day. -89IRO

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This thread has taken on a whole 'nuther "whine" from the originator's original question.

Your responses are contributing zero towards answering the questions asked. They represent a hinderance to the resolution he is seeking. The topic states "Syntetic gear lubes...", and you want me to "Keep your little synthetic thing up in your head with you"?

Sorry, 89RsPower!. You didn't ask for this. I hope you can sift the truth out of all the rubble.

89IRO

First of all, he asked what people recommended for synthetic gear lube. I replied that I didn't think synthetic was necessary. Now if that's not the answer you wanted to hear, please forgive me. If you feel my answers are not contributing, then why the **** are you responding to them? You'd think that if I was writing something that you didn't want to hear or something that offended you, you would just ignore it and move on. At first I was just posting my opion and that's all there is to it. Hate to break it to you *******, but you started all of this. -89IRO

RJR99SS

if you're not so intelligent and swap your fluid out of a posi rear end with synthetic and dont add a limited slip additive, then it just may cause noise.

As a side note, i've heard redline gear lube has the additive already in it. of course its kind of hard to find redline anywhere.

As for synthetics, they're all around great, if you dont mind the price. I can't really comment on how much power they'll add. But i do know everytime i changed the rear end oil with synthetic the rear felt ALOT smoother.

89IRO

Yes, I understand some of the benefits of synthetic, don't get me wrong. All I know is that when I had my bearings and seals replaced (which were leaking bad), and had the posi re-filled with fresh oil, it ran 100% better, which I was satisfied with. I did not use the posi-additive since it is pointless in a borg-warner 9 bolt. And the only thing stopping me from running Mobil 1 in my motor is the fact that there is no point to it, burns quite a bit of oil, and has 201,000 miles on it. The car has run on dino oil its whole life, so I must be doing something right. I change my oil every 3 months (to the day, since I'm **** about that), always use GTX 10W-30 and an AC 1218 filter with nothing else, no additives of any kind; seems to be working fine. The motor is still very strong. -89IRO

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Let's get back to first principles - Gears either whine because they are set up wrong, are worn, or because that's the way they are.

Richmond gears are known for whining, they just do.

The original rear in the '57 always whined, they just do. The synthetic helped reduce the whine, but didn't eliminate it.

The gears in the original rear in the Camaro were worn when I got it because the pinion flange was loose. Even after tightening, the gears whined. The synthetic helped reduce the noise, but didn't eliminate it.

Morley

Ho Hum,


5 RWHP.... not belevable, not just from running synthetic diff lube. Maybe compared to mineral based that was several years old, but new to new? Nope.

Throw all the insults you like, I don't believe it and your insults make it even less believable.

Riley's35089rs+

synthetic bumper to bumper in my 94 no whine,,,,but pass the crackers,,,,

Riley's35089rs+

sorry about the size....I have the whole test results..but dont know how to post the acrabat file!!!

these oils were ran on a dyno in a 460 Ford....tested by TORCO...these are the gains....it is true Morley!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There really was no intent to insult, just to make a point.

If you aren't convinced by our information, at least you could be honest and do your own research. Magazines have done tests, various performance companies have published results, people have been using the stuff for years and reporting similar results - and you're calling all of them liars.

If you want to find out for yourself, put some fresh petroleum-based lube in your vehicle, get base-line dyno runs, change to any of the synthetics recommended above, rerun the dyno with no other changes. If the results don't show similar results, then you can say "Told you so." If they show what we're saying, we'll say, "Welcome aboard."

The gain will be higher when power output is higher, by the way.

89IRO

Yeah, I would never touch pennzoil anyways, all their stuff sucks IMO. I'd like to see a test with valvoline gear oil (what I have now). I also think they should have kept the weights the same in that test, that's pretty dumb. I'm not saying this happened, and I'm not being stuborn here, but I hope you guys do relize companies can make up any information they want to and throw it in you face, regardless if all they make is synthetic oil. No, but I do believe that info. But like I said above, my rear is smooth as glass going through corners, no "whine" or no squeals at all. I didn't need to use the posi-additive though (not for my rear.) For the third time though, is there a synthetic form of tranny fluid? You guys just keep you synthetic lube in your rear and I'll keep my conventional lube, and you guys keep your "5 HP" ahead of me O.K.? I guess that means you will DEFINATELY "kill" me in a race. LOL. -89IRO

RB83L69

Yes.

Mobil1 does, Valvoline does, there may be others.

5 HP is 5 HP. Not to be a jerk or insulting; but anybody that's willing to leave 5 HP on the table, and reduce the life expectancy of their car's parts at the same time, by using inferior lubricants ..... isn't a racer, and their opinion on how to maintain a car isn't of any value to me, at least.

89IRO

"their opinion on how to maintain a car isn't of any value to me, at least."

Sure thing buddy. So you're saying that since I went out of my way to get my damn leaky axle fixed, that I don't know how to maintain a car? I could have just left it like most other 3rd gen owners out there. I don't think you guys get it. For a street driven car, that's stock, never raced, and very well taken care of, synthetic (gear lube) just isn't necessary for extra protection. There is no NEED for extra protection. I can see a race car needing that but come on guys!! COME ON!!!!! There is no life expectancy issue here PERIOD. "Inferior Lubricants"- are you trying to sound stupid or is that just how you are?

formularpm

Synthetic oil wouldnt exist if it were inferior to mineral oil.

RB83L69

I'm an idiot and know nothing about cars. You're the expert. :hail:

Do whatever you see fit with your car, just as I do mine. If you choose not to use the best possible supplies and materials on yours, that's you business, your decision, and it's perfectly OK. Just don't try to pass this type of attitude off as some kind of "superiority", because it isn't.

I'm sure all the car manufacturers would agree with you, maybe even pay you a consulting fee to tell them that they shouldn't be using synthetic lubricants in their stock, street, non-raced cars; since quite a few of them are doing just that. They're all wasting their money too.

And yes, mineral oil is an "inferior lubricant" compared to synthetic, by every possible measure. From frictional losses to viscosity stability to the lifetime of the lubricant itself, the same "inferiority" applies.

I'll stack up the number of axle seals I've changed over the years, even just the ones in my own cars, against your .... one. I don't think I'll list that on my personal resumé of qualifications regarding my "knowledge" however. A common, non-technical repair task that takes all of 10 minutes doesn't endow you or me with wisdom.

But again, since you're the expert :hail: :hail:, and I'm obviously just making stuff up and don't know what I'm talking about, just ignore me. I'm just a waste of bandwidth.

Morley

Did I ever claim to be? didn't think so.

Your 5 hp really isn't valid, you will see variations larger than that between dyno runs without changing a single thing in an engine's setup. So to say I had X hp on a dyno run, then changed the diff lube to synthetic and picked up 5 more hp is meaningless.

Inferior lubricants? Hardly. I have been using mineral based lubes in all my cars and they run just fine, one of them has well over 200,000 miles on it using mineral based lubes through out it's entire life. What about all those cars still on the road that were made before synthetic lubes? Guess I'm just seeing things and they aren't really there.

Dismissing someone's opinion out of hand because they don't fall in line and agree with you isn't gonig to get you very far.

Arguing this point is useless, but to come out and tell someone they will pick up 5 more HP at the wheels just by using a certain type of diff fluid is just plain wrong.
Don't believe everything you read in those tests, most, if not all of the "testing labs" have a stake in the results of their "testing". You can find the same type of tests done by others that show just the opposite results too.

Morley

Sure it would. Think of all of the crappy knock-off products out there now, why do they exist? Marketing, plain and simple. As P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute". Slick 50 anyone? How many millions did they make on that product? They still make crap like that too. All of those "wonder" additives they sell for cars and engines, hell, look at the "higher mileage" oils out now, are they any better than plain old oil? Just a bunch of snake oil.

And that is what people sound like touting the virtues of their synthetic lubricants, telling us now, after many, many decades of use that mineral based lubricants are not good for your engine...Sanke oil salesmen. How on gawd's green earth did so many of the old cars ever survive to today?

RB83L69

Maybe I'm being overly logical, but it seems pointless to argue about facts.

I'm not going to convince you as long as you aren't willing to do some research, and you're not going to convince me, because I already have done the research and know better. Let's just leave it at that. It's reality vs. something else. Reality usually wins in real life, FWIW; maybe it's not always so on the Internet.

I'm glad to hear that you have a car that has made it to 200,000 miles. Also FWIW, I have 4 such cars. Only 3 still have the original engines in them though. The one of those with the least miles has about 225,000 (my wife's DD), and the one with the most has about 345,000. Any car that makes it to that kind of mileage and is still useful, has accomplished something.

You don't even have to dyno an entire car to see the reduced frictional loss.... you can just dyno a rear end by itself, and isolate any variation to the part in question exclusively. Racers do things like that all the time. That's why the enormous majority of race teams in serious professional racing such as NASCAR, F1, SCCA, ARCA, NHRA, etc. etc., where they have the time and money and motivation to do things like that, run synthetic lubes. They simply work better.

My last comment was directed at the other unconvinced one.

I'm out of here.

Morley

They work better in their application. Just because they use it for 6,000hp engines doesn't mean it is "superior" to mineral based lubes, in that instance it might be, but not always.
Jet engines use the best synthetic oils ever made, it has to stand up to pressures and tempratures that a piston engine never reaches, so it must be far superior to mineral oils, right? Run that in your car and see how far you get.

The "example" given showed a whopping 2 HP gain for 5X the price of the oil they compared to. Even IF it were a consistant 2 HP, is it worth the expense?

And yes, the car that has over 200k miles is on the same engine the factory installed, no overhaul, no rebuild. I have another coming up on 150k, using the same mineral oils.
If you take care of your car, change fluids and filters regularly, it will last a long, long time (barring unforseen mechanical difficulties)


Differentials that "whine" are either using too thin of a fluid or have impending failure. Synthetic or mineral fluids do not affect them in that way.

BTW, the only engine I ever used synthetic oil in devloped sludge and scored the #2 main bearing, not a good advertisement for synthetics for me.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

They haven't. They've been rebuilt because they wore out due to marginal lubrication.

The vast majority of those who have done their homework in this area and now use synthetic lubricants do not use snakeoil additives such as Slick 50 or Duralube.

How much marketing have you seen done by AMSOIL and Royal Purple? They rely on word-of-mouth and a few directed market ads, and let the product quality do the rest of the talking. Mobil 1 has been more aggressive, but they continued their "standard" lines as well, and chose the mass marketing path to get the word out (FWIW, AMSOIL sales jumped when Mobil 1 started advertising).

If product quality was the only factor determining product line success, Pennzoil would have been out of business in the 80's; we'd all be using Macintoshes instead of PC's; Linux instead of Windows, etc.

Maybe there'd be less whining, too...

89IRO

Alright guys, this has been entertaining I must say. It seems Morley and me have different views on this. He's right when he says it depends on APPLICATION. Thank you RB, I know I am the expert, I am shocked you let me know that. Oh and can we compare seals? Please? I think that would be fun. I'm pretty sure I take care of my car better than you take care of yours so please don't say I don't know what I'm doing. Of course race teams use synthetic oil, they need them because they are race cars, where conventional oil probably couldn't hold up as good. What we are trying to say, is for our applications there is no need for synthetic gear lube. That would be like me buying a gold plated toilet to **** in, but is there really a need? NO.

Same thing happened in equipment at my dads work. It ran on conventional oil, then they thought they would get cute and they threw some synthetic in it, and they have had trouble with the equipment ever since. They actually lost one of them. I'll stick to my Castrol and AC filter for now, changed every three months and about 1500 miles, since I don't do a whole lot of driving. What kind or cars do you guys drive? Camaro/Firebird? 305/350? I am going to go **** in the wind now. Later guys, this was fun. -89IRO

ede

just like getting into an argument with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

25THRSS

WOW, there is a ton of ignorance floating around in this post. You guys might wanna listen to RB83L69 and five7kid. They are the only ones here to contribute anything worth reading to this thread. Yes, synthetics will give you a few extra ponies, but if you still arent convinced and dont think it's worth the few extra bucks to spend, the added protection should be worth it alone even if they didnt help free up lost hp, which they do.

89IRO

Shut up 25. Why don't you go back and take the time to read what everybody (like me) had to say before you just blot out a bunch of bull **** like you normally do.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

And that is relevant to the original question posed in this thread -- how, exactly?

Gears that whine with petroleum-based gear lube will most likely be quieter with a synthetic gear lube of the same viscosity from AMSOIL, Mobil 1, Redline, or Royal Purple. That answers the original question, and is relevant (whether or not it is "worth it" is not).

Stop wasting bandwidth with irrelevant ax-grinding (remaining silent when an opinion is expressed indicates agreement, not disagreement - that's why I keep replying when you keep piling on).

89IRO

No, you keep piling on because you can't help it. If everything we have said is irrelevant then why do you respond to "irrelevant" answers? And who are you to judge this? If I want to bring up something that has to do with the original topic, I am going to do it, you got a problem with that? You did the same amount of piling on as I and Morley have done brotha! If you look back on my original post, all I said was I didn't think synthetic gear lube was necessary, and around here a comment like that is like starting a forest fire I guess. I am going to stop wasting my time with you people now. -89IRO

RJR99SS

\

Whats that mean? I mean...does it mean anything?

Here let me try this: My one friend was running mobil 1 synthetic in the rear end in his drag race car, he broke 3 rear-ends in that thing. Yeah, mobil 1 is real junk.

hows that sound?

Or it could be the fact that he was an idiot and using a stock 9 inch in a 5000 pound ford galaxie. He broke three rear ends before he put the same engine and transmission in a mustang with an aftermarket 9 inch, then he never broke another rear end again.

If you're going to say something like that, try specifics as to why it broke, how it broke, etc...

Otherwise it just comes across as you're opinion is the stuff is bad but you have no real proof aside from a vague example of something happening to some sort of equipment at a relitives job.

89IRO

Sorry man, I already said I'm done here, I wouldn't want Five7kid gettin on me about that again like he just did on a completly different post. Later.

Riley's35089rs+

well You guys just shut-out some of the best scources on this board...RB and 5-7...I have nothing left to say or suggest to either one of you. If you are soo knowledgable on this topic why did you waste our time posting?????
Later.....
RB and 5-7...sorry you were disrespected

1989TTA

2 bottles of GM Differencial fluid and one 4 oz bottle of GM limited slip additive and you should be good to go. The only need I see with Synthetic motor oil is if the engine has already been broken in with dino oil and is brand spanking new. Also if you are running a oil cooled Turbo bearing...like I am with my TTA...then the synthetic will be superior for the hotter oil temps and prevent coaking of the turbo bearing.

My 87 IROC 5.0 has over 212,000 miles on it and is still running strong with Castrol 10w-30 changed every 3,000 miles. The car has never had a valve cover removed. All it needs is some shocks and some minor suspension work...and yes the differencial is still running strong with the non-synthetic lub over the years.

Morley

Really??????? That is dubious at best. You keep on with your synthetics, I'll stick to what I know from first hand exp what works.

160k miles on my other car with nothing but Pennzoil in it, no sludge, no break downs, no problems. So I guess it really is crap.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't make it fact.
You have no problems telling others that what they use is crap, but let someone disbeileve what you say or even disagree with you and you become rabid.

If you want to be entitled to your opinion then you must afford others the same entitlements, plain and simple.

And to tell the truth... about the only oil ads I've seen in the last few years were from Mobil, discounting the ads from racing.

08141980

I agree. It's your own car...you can take care of it how you see fit. A friend of mine runs a 84 HO Z-28 with the "crappy" Penzoil 10w-30 (changes filter/oil every 3 grand) and his car has 282,000 original miles. He has never lifted a valve cover. He did have a problem with his orig carb!

I think the bottom line is that as long as you change every 3,000 and keep your filters clean or replaced...the car should last well over 200,000. If you gun the engine and race it at every stop light...then the synthetic would probably have justification.

I have same opinion with Transmissions: As long as you flush every 40,000 and change filter every 20 grand you should be fine. I do believe that "Synthetic" benefits play a larger role on the tranny cycle though..esp if you are running a TH200 (TTA).

87 IROC 212,000 Castrol GTX ("crappy dino oil)
wifes 94 V-6 Camaro 150,212 Castrol GTX ("Crappy dino oil)
TTA 27,000 Castrol Full Synthetic 10w-30
1970 Firebird 400 36,000 on rebuild Castrol GTX (Crappy dino oil)

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Perhaps we have different definations of what is an "old car". To me, that's 50's-60's stuff. Maybe that's 80's for you, in which case what I said probably seems over-stated to you. But, middle-aged cars (not completely worn out, but no longer new) when I was growing up had less that 100k on them. Today, that has about doubled - I re-ringed the orginal 283 in my '57 at 90k - it had a LOT of cylinder ridge, whereas the 305 in the Camaro hardly had any when I pulled the heads at 143k 19 months ago. The '57 was 14 years old when I got it, and the newest 3rd gens are almost 12 years old now.

I have seen some really, really nasty internally dirty engines that had regular 3000 mile Pennzoil and GTX oil changes. But, I'm talking 70's cars, so again, you probably can't relate to that.

And, petroleum lubes have improved, primarily because of the competition from synthetics, but also from raised consumer and government expectations. Still, whatever longevity you've achieved with petroleum lubes, however clean your engine is with short-interval petroleum-based oil changes, you would do better with a good synthetic. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you - personally, with 6 vehicles to maintain, I don't want to be underneath each of them every 3000-5000 miles. I made the switch 20 years ago (some of you weren't even born yet) and haven't looked back.

Yes, it's your car. Do whatever you want with it. I do not hesitate to recommend synthetic gear lube or ATF (there's a whole 'nuther topic) for any usage, as long as the unit isn't already nearly worn out & leaking all over the place. But, I don't try to make the horse drink, either. I'm just providing information.

Poor guy that originally asked about gear whine hasn't even returned to this thread. Can't say I blame him.

Morley

You assume far too much.

biff85ta

I would just like to point out this whole time you guys have been arguing with a person who believes his nine bolt does not need a posi additive which it does so why would he be correct about any other fluid in his car as he is obviously misinformed.