Ok! Ok! Thanks for the food, I was hungry. I thought you had pretty much everything on that 335. How much you think you can pull with some nice heads and a little TPI work?

Brandon

 

Hahaha no problem.

In the future I'd like to port the heads and run an Accell Supperram, AFPR, and a custom chip would help out too.

I'd like to see over 285rwhp with that combo. Who knows though

 

All I have to say about that article is WHAT IS WRONG WITH THOSE MORONS?!

Heads, cam, full exhaust and cat, gear, engine rebuild....$4000.00 and only a fricking 15.39?!! I'll say it again. What is wrong with those MORONS??

My fisrt TA, ('83 LG4, 700R4, 3.23 gear) Ran 15.3 (actual, not corrected like they did) with a $69.00 Summit CAM!! And "free" tuning. That's IT! I spent $69 bux to get where those buffoons were after spending $4000.00! That article is not worthy of refferencing. Something is wrong seriously with those guys, IMO.

 

Has anyone noticed that StealthElephant hasnt been replying? Maybe hes on the phone with GM right now trying to find out who designed his motor...LOL!!!!!! He obviously dosent know what hes doing if he cant get a TPI 305 in the 14's at least. I love my 305. Ive never had any problems with any that I have owned. Maybe hes just mad because his dad wont give him the money to fix his car...so he has to take his anger out on GM. So, to "StealthElephant", keep poutingya crybaby and learn how to work on your car.

 

well i can see both sides to this argument. first to appease the complainers, yes the 305 is a very mild engine. the bore is small, the compression is low, and the stroke is long. probably the ultimate disgrace was when GM decided to drop their midget small block 305s into the corvette. that was in the late 70s-early 80s i belive. amazing that within the same few years you could either get a 454 vette, or a 305 vette. who would honestly order a 305 vette????? i might be wrong though, im not a vette expert.

but you also have to consider this....

if im not mistaken, the 305 was never designed to be a performance engine. GM wanted a reliable, long lasting, mild-mannered small block that they could put in their trucks, vans, station wagons, etc. only as an afterthought did they put it in their f-bodys x-bodys. (or is vette the y-body? im not sure) but in any event, the goal was not supreme HP, they had the 350 for that. also when they designed it was at the peak of the gas shortages, and the end of the true muscle cars. before the 305 there was the 307, which was equally as puny. ever seen a 307 chevelle? its sad.... plus in our cars, computer controlled fuel injection was just starting to become practical enough for daily driving. (vettes had 327 fuelies in the 60's but it wasnt the same)
and especially in 85, the introduction of tuned port injection was GMs first real attempt at computer controlled muscle. in my opinion, 235HP isnt bad at all for a first year motor. plus they run forever. ive seen 305s with 200,000+ miles on them. that long stroke and low compression really extend the life of the motor. in any event, the 305 wasnt all that bad, it just has a bad reputation. plus i have a 350 now so i dont really think about it that much.

 

i thought they never put a 305 in a vette. i thought that the tpi was designed for a 305 for vette but never actully mand its way to one, last minute they pulled the plug and put it on a 350, thats why it dosent breeth as well up top, becasue it was desighned for the 305. i herd this from the vette resto place in the springs colorado.

 

I don't think they ever made a 305 vette!!

 

1980 California vettes had them, I think that was the only year

 

Yeah haha 1980 (RPO code LG4). Imangine telling someone that you had a LG4 in a Vette; they'd give you a wierd look.

 

[one of my hotrod buddies had a C3 vette with i think a 305. i might be wrong though, like i say i know a lot more about f-bods than y-bods. and correct me if im wrong but didnt the vette get TPI several years before they put it in the f-bods? like 83 or 84? my uncle has an 84 vette and i think his is TPI. but its been a few years since ive seen it so maybe not.

 

no 83 vettes, 84 had the all mighty cross fire injection, 85 had tpi, but it was a 350. fbodys didnt get 350 until 87

 

This "peanut cam" was a sorry excuse for a cam, it was named that becasue the lobes are so small they looked like peanuts. Here's the specs on it:

177*/194* dur. @ .050, .350"/.385" lift on a 109 lsa

And yes I have one in my LG4, ran a best of 16.8 with it. The cam tops out at about 4500 rpm (when it makes no power).

 

Somehow my 87' TPI ran like 15.5 with that crappy peanut cam, LT1 cam swap dropped .4 off my ET......

I can understand if the 305 wasn't designed as a performance engine, but they should not have put them in fbodies.....I would rather have no 3rd gens...should have just skipped the 3rd gen and waited until the LT1 to start making fbodies again.....SO SLOW.....my buddy has an 86' monte carlo ss with a 305.....we just finished building his 350.....we looked at his engine and he looked at me and said "this is what our cars SHOULD have rolled out of the factory with"

 

I just noticed that post....I have a 375-400HP 350 i built with my own hands going in this monday....thats about all I have to say about that. My 305 can go to the bottom of a lake for all I care....

 

I have to jump in here. The bad-boy 302 Z28 motor was a 283 crank in an (early) 327 (4in bore )block. Probably the only reason that this engine was ever developed was because the SCCA's trans-am series was heating up and chevy didn't have an engine to fit under the 305 inch limit rule. If those parts didn't just happen to fit together, there would probably have never been a 302 since it was not a large production item. The 307, which if I recall, was a 327 crank in a 283 block(I could be wrong here), and was just a bread and butter everyday driver that pulled ok and got decent mileage. What is remarkable, is that a lot of injected chevy class cars used the 307. For some reason this engine worked real well in lightweight injected dragsters.
The post is also correct when they state that the NASCAR engines are 350's, but that they arrange the numbers to get there.
Back in the day the NASCAR rulebook stated that the engine had to be no larger than a 358,(to allow overbore on 351's) Darrell Waltrip won the Daytona 500 in the early 80's by making less fuel stops, come to find out that he ran a restrictor engine that was a whole lot less than 350. The reason was, since the restrictor plate would only work efficiently with a (say for example) 320 cubic inch engine, that's what they built. NASCAR put the skids to that plan as the rulebook now reads "no less than 350 cubic inches".
Some confusion is added because in the early 80's the established method of horsepower advertisement went from flywheel to rear wheel horsepower. That was not the first time that happened, in the early 60's manufacturers had "advertised" horsepower numbers, Ford was widely known to inflate their numbers. Unfortunatley for them, this became a problem when drag racing organizations established classes built on "advertised" horsepower numbers, and Fords were getting beat by Chevies and Mopars with considerably less horspower.
Having owned several 327 Chevies over the years, I can tell you when the 350's came out, we considerred them as crappy as you now consider the 305. The 305 is what it is, I own an 83 Z28 with a 5speed and a 4.11 rear. It ran a whole lot better than my 78 Z28 with a 350/4spd and 3.73 (at least until I turned it into a 350/350hp) and gets a lot better mileage.
Realistically, the Chevy V8 that we know and love, that was derived from the little 265 back in 1955 or so, is about to become history as well. It is the absolutely ,without question the best engine ever designed, but it's 40 years old, and has probably seen it's day.

 

hey man were you planning on actually bolting that engine together, or were you just going to set the heads on the block and the intake on top and hope that she held together. lol




yeah its sad to say, but the small block is just about phased out. even the trucks are using the LS1 blocks i think. and i dont have a lot of experience with LS1s, but as i hear they arent very similar to sbc's. but hey, how many other motor designs are 40+yrs old and still kick a$$???

 

well from the date on the pic you can tell thats from a while ago, that engine is going in his car as i speak as far as i know(i saw him bolt it together, i can attest to that )...should be running monday.....my swap starts monday.....

 

lol just making sure. i was gonna say, youre not going to be able to rev it very high.

 

Yo before I bought my 86 T/a 305 TPI I was driving a 94 GEO TRACKER!!!!!! My T/A is like a damn rocket ship compared to that thing. My car is completely stock and still has some problems but I love my 305. I plan on owning it for a while. So maybe your not happy but my car keeps me smiling day-in day-out.

 

That's the spirit!

 

Yea....my buddy has a 4 banger sentra...you need to floor it just to get to highway speed....passing someone at 65 is pretty much out of the question

 

it makes me proud to say that i own a 305 whenever i hear someone i "compete" with on the street says "that's not a 305". i just got that from a 92 formula 350 tonight, 2 cars to 80, gotta love it. hes got a cat back, !cat, and cai

 

The 305 isn't the best performance sbc out there, obviously. But some of the rep that it gets is unfair. Many people base there criticisms of the 305 on factory power numbers and the absence of "fast" 305 cars out there. I'll explain both. The 305 never got a chance in the "golden" era of muscle cars when there was no such thing as a catalytic coverter or an EGR valve. It came out in a time when engines had to meet increasingly strict epa regulations when current design and technology was not up to the task, and thus the horsepower levels for ALL engines was crappy. Mind you, during the same time, vette's had 350's that only put out 175 horsepower. The 350 and those other engines are still better suited than the 305 for making high horsepower, but the 305 is not as nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The main problem with the 305, in terms of making power, is that the size of the valves that can be used is limited by its smaller bore. Also, the performance aftermarket for 305s is smaller as well, since most people opt for a 350 or something along that order instead. What I mean by "smaller" aftermarket (outside of chrome VC's and so fourth) is that among all the thousands and thousands of aftermarket available for SBC's, there are few made to work well with a 305 engine, chiefly high compression pistons and low cc heads. Again by this time, most people opt for another engine, which is why you don't hear about all of those high hp 305's (its more economics than engine design). However, the 305 is a durable and extremeley reliable engine that will practically run forever. Oh yeah, and in regards to those chevy nascar engines, they use a 4.115"x3.3xxx" combination (its very close to that, don't know exact), kinda like a radically destroked 400.

 

the 305 heads have very small chambers. thats why i decided to put a pair of 305 heads on my 350. it boosts compression dramatically. now i did open up the valves, 1.55/1.90, but still i was very pleased with the performance

 

That's a tiny intake valve and huge exhaust valve! j/k... we know what you mean.

 

I own a 305 TBI 91 Camaro and there is not a day that goes by that I appreciate the gas mileage and reliability of my car. Sure I've had some minor problems, but nothing serious. The car hasn't let me down.

Sure I'm not pushin high HP like an LT1/5.7 engine in Camaros, but it matters not. If I wanted something faster, I would have stepped up to the IROC. But for now, my little 305 RS with 225hp/170rwHP will serve me just fine.

And best of all, I can still say shes got an 8 in her :rockon:

 

small bore motors are crap, which is why a 302 mustang with heads that flowed as good as swirl port TBI heads (E7s, they suck ***, 140 cfm stock lol) was making tons more power than a H.O. 305 camaro, the person who made the comparison about the LS1 being a small bore motor is a dolt, it's a 3.95" bore vs. a 4.00" bore, you could bore it out to over a 4.00" going .060" over. Ever wonder why 388 ALL BORE LS1s are some of the fastest all motor cars? the V8s will always have decent torque due to their displacement, but a bigger bore gives you a wider powerband, more power up top, and all those other good things people want in a racing motor, strong mid range torque and very powerful top end HP. if you are bogging with that setup you obviously don't have the right gearing/stall for your motor.

 

the 305 is built to conserve fuel - thank former president Jimmy Carter for that.- my view only haha. the 267 small block chevy - ever seen one? is more easy on gas - but not the all around power plant GM wanted- the 305 is ok to pull vans and wagons & such. the 267 is a little small for that
my car has a 267- took out the 305. either go large or go small- 267 is my small motor.
454 bb chevy
455 Buick bb
406 chevy sb
drop in a 267 for long trips and such- the 267 is like a good v6.but you can use the same mounts.

 

Not to pick nits, but the SBC 305 was released in September of 1975 - during the Ford administration. Ironic, isn't it?

 

If you guys think the turbo 301 sucks, or a 305 blows, obviously you have never driven a 307 Olds. What a waste of time. 130 horse is all she gives.

On another note, the 283, along with its 302 variant were both very quick high revving motors. The 283 far from sucked. the 307 just plain sucked though.

 

good one vader.

I plan on modding my 305 wtih ported heads, ZZ4 cam, ported stock base, and a nice set of headers. Im also going to go to a bigger motor. I know im not gunna get 12's out of this combo, but this will be able to keep up with most of whats out there after a good prom tuning, higher stall, and a set of 3.42's out back, I think I could be in the 13's.

 

You guys are whining about the 305 all wrong in my opinion. Here i Europa GM builds Opel's with 1,6 and 2,0 liter engines!

Sure, the 305 doesn't have alot of power, but it has the POTENSIAL! I'm sticking with my idea to add two turbos to a stock 305 + lower compression and hardened pistons since you guys give the shortblocks away for free!

Whatch out guys, if the federal gov bans all large cube engines in trucks as it has been proposed, and you almost don't get any passenger cars with large cube engines anymore, that day you'll be sad you gave away a 5 liter engine..

In Europa you can get an engine up to 3 liters or so, but the majority is between 1,3- 1,8 and try getting decent power out of them...

Face it, the large cube engines is a dying breed, and even a 305 is King compared to what we usually see on our cars..

 

Bingo! The 302 served a purpose, plain and simple. Sound familiar (305)? It just cracks me up when I hear people talking of this engine as if it were sent from the gods or something, as if it has some magical, ethereal quality about it. I would never build one and neither would you. I give credit for it being collectible when in an original Z28 that was supplied with it, but that's all.

True story:
A local guy had a nice '68 Camaro that he built a 302 for. He spared no expenses building it. He couldn't figure out why he kept getting his *** spanked, after all this was the mythical 302. The final tragedy occured when he was foolish enough to line up alongside my friend's modded 440 Six Pack powered Road Runner. Do I really need to tell the rest of the story? It's just too painful............

 

if you cant make a 305 fast then you probably wont be able to make any SBC fast.

It responds the same way other sbcs do to mods relative to its displacement

this whole bore vs stroke thing is blown way out of proportion, it hardly makes any difference in street engines.

The same thing goes for low end torque, everyone says so many dumb things about it I can hardly stand to read it. In a car you plan on drag racing or spending any time at WOT low end torque is about meaningless.

I have a 305 that I've invested minimal money in, just a cam, ported stock heads, headers, single plane manifold on a cheapo dished piston rebuild and a bunch of details and I ran 13.65@103.67 with a 2.2 60 foot a few weeks ago, ive mph'ed as high as 104.97, completely streetable. Its my only transportation.

This revving talk is nonsense too, i shift at 6000 rpm and never see under 4000 rpm for the entire quarter except on launch.
look for my posts if you want to know how i do this weekend with my traction problems fixed

 

How much have you invested totally?? sounds like a nice setup and i need something so i can keep with these damn Supra's around here

 

Talk about the 267ci as being small. I put the smallest V8 Chevy made in my '84 Camaro F41 when the HO died. A mighty 262ci, 4.3L V8. I put the HO heads & cam on it and a '75 Vette 4bbl intake with a 600cfm Q-jet, Headman headers and it pulled harder than the HO did. It would not run as fast on top end but ran good up to 100-115mph.
A wrist pin started knocking in it a couple of months after that but I drove it like that for about 7 or 8 more months with no problems other than a LOUD knock then sold the car to get a '89 Z24. Oh well just my small motor tell.

 

thanks for the info Vader
Ford not carter
i'm here to learn. well the the 305 does what its ment to do it seems.
And also in my view it seems GM can not do what they want or would like to do as far as building motors- with the world market and all. like it seems to me that when alot of people go to buy a new car they ask first price then MPG. it seems alot of people don't care about power, as long as they don't have to get out and push haha. mostly what i see is 4 & 6 cylinders in the lots.
and it seem Ford motor stock has been down.
could this be do to imports?
262 what was the MPG on that?

 

well the 302 chevy we had would turn 10k and we felt sure it could see 12k it was a fun motor just no low end.
but i wonder of the small motors like 283s and so on do you think the bottom end would hold up any better on NOS. like the old 283s had thick pistons or a 262 /267 in other words would any of them stay together with stock crank pistons & rods with NOS use- have seen NOS spit the crank out of a 350 with stock crank pistons & rods , just wonder if any of the smaller motors could take it better.
i'm not gonna try it unless some body had luck with it before

 

well under 1000

 

As everyone said. If GM could have put a better engine in all their cars with less cost/emmissions,/etc im sure they would but they probably werent able to....If you dont like it. Suck it up or build a better engine... :lala:

Nate

 

I wasn't trying to completely slag the sbc 302, it has its place, as I mentioned. It got GM in the SCCA races and produced some very collectible cars. A very purpose-specific piece. However for us average street enthusiasts, why?

I don't see why the smaller motors wouldn't hold up as well to N2O as larger ones. Lots of guys here spraying their 305s.

 

348 = 4.125" x 3.25" (6.135" rod

That's pretty close to what you were talking about, and it was a "marine engine", too (best suited as an anchor).

 

simple answer as to who designed the 305


an idiot

 

just some info on the small bore, long stroke of the LS1, they are dropping the 5.7 model for a larger 4.00 bore 6.0 motor. This will be the new standard for small block engines. The Gen IV starts off with the 420hpish Vette C6, and the motors will go into GM trucks with displacement on demand(detuned, but enuff power to beat out the ford and dodge). DOD will NOT go in to the vette engine. The new GTO should get this engine in its last year of production deal with Holden. This motor will also apear in the next 07 Camaro and 07 GTO(home made GTO hopefuly)

 

Now that's not nice...

If you haven't done this yet, you need to read the article referenced here https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=213506 . You'll appreciate more why they chose this design.

Sure, when I first drove my car after the mods 25 months ago, my first post back here was, "This is the way a 305 is supposed to run." And, last month I sailed through emissions testing. But, given the constraints on the engineers almost 30 years ago, they actually did a pretty good job. The engine was in production a lot longer than the famous 283's and 327's. I had a lot of fun with the 302 I had almost 30 years ago, but this 305 makes almost as much power, has a bunch more torque (where a street-driven car really lives, anyway), gets a lot better mileage, takes a lot less maintenance, and gets me where I'm going and back every day.

 

Why is even allowed on this site all he does is bash GM and third-gens and talk about the mighty power of his beloved rotary engine.

He as a person is non third-gen related.

 

THE ROTARY OWWWWWNZ JOOOOOOOOO!

 

If you asked the designers why they made the 305 when they did it, they would have probably said as long as it has some sembalance to V8 power with the potential to squeal the rear tires its good enough, people aren't smart enough to know any better.

I have met alot of technical people and this is the attitude that I get from alot of them. Make it sell, past that they don't care.

 

I don't understand you guys. I have a 95 Cavalier with a 2.2L. Stock 120hp at the crank and 93hp at the front wheels. I have that b*tch pushing 220hp at the front wheels right now. Think it's not possible? Check out www.j-body.org. If my 4-banger can do that, you had damn well better expect atleast 400hp out of a correctly done 305. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg either. Only spent $4000 on the cavalier. Get a balanced bottom end and proper drivetrain and get it to breath right. I bought a Camaro for it's style and it's legend. I'll soup up my 305 and then sell that for an LT1, I personally prefer emissions legal cars with *****. If my cav runs 14.1's in the 1/4, My Camaro will run 12's with the LT1 and minor mods. C'mon guys, the 305 served it's purpose, and it's the GM lovers like us that found a way to mod any engine GM produced. Don't diss any of them. Make it yours!

Nick

 

400hp from a 305 is asking alot, you can make 330 or so for about $400 or so, but 400 is gonna be costly and it probably won't have very good street manners.