acutaly,some mag did a 400hp 305 build up, and its online. My friend is making a 400hp 305. No radical cam, no crazy compresion, and it runs on pump gas.

 

$400 for 330hp from my 305, sign me up
I think you forgot a zero.

The 305's are pretty tuff too, you can beat the hell out of them and they keep going.

 

Well Ive been watchin this thread for a bit and Im not surprised to see the 305 get dissed like it does, but Im equally unsurprised at the praise it gets.

If the L98 were never created for use in the vettes and fbodies ( it almost happened) the 305 wouldve seen alot more respect. The baddest factory 305 put out 230 hp and 300 tq which is very respectable even compared to stock 350's in the muscle car days.


Look at the power #'s of the 350's of 1970 for example: there were 3 available in an fbody, a base like 350 with 270hp, the L48 with 300hp, and the big daddy Z28 360hp 350 built similar in fashion to the 302 of the day. These numbers all look bad assed until you realize they are all estimated in SAE GROSS which was the norm of the day.

If GM was still using the gross standard when the LB9 (L98 cammed) was at its peak the numbers would be around 290-300hp and 340-350tq and of course the L98 wouldve been even more impressive looking.

Of course the 350 is better and has more potential than the best 305 from the factory but there were better motors than the 350 as well. People dissin on the 305 dont be so ignorant would ya?

 

I personally don't need gobbs of hp. As long as my little 305 can make me accelerate fast enough to merge into traffic and still get my heart racing when I decide to open up the throlle on back roads I still have a s**t-eating smile on sunny days with the T-tops off. I like getting better gas mileage. There is nothing "wrong" with my 305 other than it could do better.

If I wanted something to race or make sure I smoked the r*cers, I would buy the new GTO. I'm over 30 now and have no need to use my car as a phallic symbol.

 

No, I meant $400. That is assuming you have a good stock bottom end (a rebuild of the shortblock isn't included in this price). Here's what I'm doing to mine: Port heads - free, cam/lifters/springs/retainers - $100, steel shim gaskets - $40, holley intake manifold - $35, holley 650 dp carb - $150, gasket set $40, perf fuel pump - $40.

Total that up and it comes to $455, so close enough really. It's cheap for me because I'm doing all the work and I found good deals on parts.

bigals87z28, would you mind posting up that build, or linking to it? I'd like to see what combo they're running.

 

I'm not going to argue with you about this
but obviously you haven't really seen much of me around the boards if that is your opinion of me

also with 2800 post I really think if all I did was sit here and talk about how my rotary motor is better and bash GM product that I would have been kicked out of here unless the mods/admins are really stupid

so either the mods are stupid or what you say is wrong

you do not really know me as a person so I think the "he isn't even thirdgen related" comment wasn't right on but rather WAY of the mark

can't judge a person only by what he drives to make assumtions like that



57 yeah I know the 305 does have some nice things going for it but to me for a performance motor it isn't really there
emissions and gas mileage though it does do fairly well and can't complain much there.

and haven't read the article yet since it is all fuzzy and haven't been to the store

but I plan to soon


but yeah I will give the long stroke design of the 305 does help with low speed intake velocity which really does help gas mileage and for what was around yeah it wasn't that bad I guess low 15's high 14's but eh....

just not my motor



would rather have something a little more of a short stroke big bore motor

 

Save yourself $185 and use the factory intake and keep the factory intake & carb. Besides, you didn't include the cost of a vacuum/mechanical advance distributor, and a $150 Holley has to be used and most likely is in need of a rebuild kit.

The only such dyno-documented build of that sort I've seen did have sky-high compression and required a cam/intake that made it peaky and less-than-truly streetable.

 

I let what you said stay, even though I commented on it. Guess that doesn't settle the matter...

I didn't say I would go out and build a 305 for performance. What I did, and what I was trying to say, is use what is available. I did the math, and it was more economical to modify my 305 in order to obtain my objectives (in the short term, at least), than to go out an buy a 350.

Time's a wastin'...

 

The Chevy 350 attitude on this board has really jaded me.
Its beyond ignorant as it seams to be the default answer for any question.

"put a V8 in it"

Even if you own a 305.

Don't fix this, don't mod that "put a V8 in it"
[cough350cough then stroke it]

Squashing peoples individual creativity should of been left on the school yard.

Thinking out side the box is human.

I luv my 2.8

 

The general attitude ive seen here is the correct one. If you want to go faster put in a bigger engine its going to give you the most hp/dollar. But if someone wants to build a 5.0, 3.1, or 2.8 there are plenty of people willing to help. Someone just always chimes in and says its going to be cheaper which is correct in most cases to put in a bigger engine. Havn't seen anyone on here building an Iron Duke though. That would be interesting.

 

You guys sound like a bunch of ricers trying to justify your 4bangers "smog and gas mileage" is stated every other post.

If they had made anything better than a 305 for an engine, this post would be about "who designed the tranny?" or "who designed the rearend?" Face it if GM gave us a destroked 400/T56/12bolt combo from the factory you would complain about the brakes not being up to snuff, or yadda yadda... I guess what I am trying to say is stop whining or get off your @$$ and build a streetable 305 with vortec heads it wouldnt be that hard.

As for the 151c.i. Iron Duke, I too would like to see someone mod it. They can handle a ton of boost stock and a 4barrel intake would make nitrous an easy enough thing. Imagine running with the stock 4cylinder fbody at a track 250hp nitrous shot, who cares if the engine blows, junkyard has a zillion of them!

 

High compression and crazy cam with horrible streetability you say?

Here is the link
http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html

What were you saying about the cam? 10.6:1 unstreetable you say?

Thats what I thought. You know, I have no problem with the 305 bashing, but unless you have done it or tried to do it, dont say it can or cant be done.

 

Dude, it's not "305 bashing". It's "reality". And yes, that's the article that we're talking about.

I have a problem with people that read a magazine article and become instant experts. Have you ever actually driven a car with an engine like that in it, especially one that weighs over 3500 lbs? Well, I have, thank you very much, in the form of a SBC 302. Not just driven, but driven daily, as my only vehicle, for 2 years. I suspect you were born after I sold that car (were you born after 1978?). And, for the record, I prefer my current 305 for daily driving.

There's a wide gulf between magazine articles and real-world experience. Yes, they used the word "streetable" in the article. So? There's also a big difference between being able to drive something on the street and driving it daily.

 

because in trans am racing the biggest engine you could have was 305ci

 

yip, instead of destroking their 350 for insurance purposes and a "smaller" V8, GM de-bored it. I bet with TPI and the cam profiles available but larger valve heads, a 302 would've upstaged the 350 TPI, so perhaps that's why they didn't bother with it.

 

They didn't do it for insurance purposes. Go back and re-read this thread for the real reason. (hint: better emissions & and fuel economy, while retaining some low end grunt).

bigals87z28, I don't call a 244* cam in a 305 streetable. I call that a hand full.

 

305 and low end grunt can't go together rofl. it's really funny cause my old 305 was a lot dirtier running than my 350 TPI

 

No, no, no --- NO! Not at all true!

Going from gross HP to net was an attempt to end the "horsepower wars", and the insurance companies were involved in that. But, the real reason for the 305 was the EPA, with both emissions restrictions and CAFE, while maintaining some "seat of the pants" V8-ness (at least in the lower RPM ranges).

TPI on a '67-'69 vintage Z28 302 would be a HORRIBLE combination. Current LT1 induction, modern heads and a modern cam - perhaps. But, TPI is still a much better match on a 305 FOR THE PURPOSE OF ACHIEVING THE ORIGINAL INTENT!

I'll say it again: If you haven't read the Hot Rod article on torque & HP referenced above (or don't at least have an appreciation for the topic), you CANNOT understand why the 305 was the proper solution for the times.

 

And a 305 TPI is just as clean running as a 350 TPI.

 

not according to my local emissions testing. my old 305 barely skipped by with a new cat, O2 sensor, EGR, and tune up. it also got poorer fuel economy, I could never explain why . my 350 went by with half the acceptable level of emissions.
five7kid, fords intake manifold doesn't choke off the 302, and I'm sure an Lt1 outflows it. TPI is a good design with a lot of room to work with. but GM dd what they did, no sense in debating the past. opposing view points have gotten a few members on my case already

 

There are plenty of reasons for an engine to run "dirty" and have poor fuel economy - one leaking injector being a possible explanation. Being a 305 or 350 is irrelevant. My engine with its performance mods came out cleaner with 47k more miles on the engine than it did when it was a stock LG4 - passing against the V6 standards, as a matter of fact. Are you saying putting in a 350 would make it even cleaner?

Ford 302 intakes are irrelevant to 305/302/350/TPI discussions.

I never said TPI is a bad system. I said it would be a horrible system on an original SBC 302 - what I should have said is "as delivered from the factory" (although it is possible it could "work" with extensive mods - basically none of the factory stuff left except perhaps the fuel rails).

 

lol, I wouldn't bother with FI on a DZ motor, I'm saying GM could've engineered something. but it's all just pissing in the wind. I'm not saying putting a 350 in would make the car cleaning, I am saying from personal experience, my 350 has been better to me than my 305 has

 

Does any one know the ideology of the 267?

 

Proven by its longevity.

 

Man this thread is retarded.

The reason for the 305 was for low emissions, decent economy, and good low end grunt -like five7kid said above.

It's easier to achieve good emisisons with a smaller bore. That's a fact. If some goon on this board knows of some 350 that tested cleaner than some 305, all that proves is... NOTHING. It indicates to me that that goon's 305 is in a worse state of tune, has more or less miles, has a different hisory, is using different fuel, etc, etc. Talk about a UNCONTROLLED experiment -lol.

I don't know who at GM designed the 305, or more accurately, decided on that bore/stroke combo, and I don't care.

I don't LIKE the 305 personally, and I won't ever be putting one in my car, but there are specific, concrete reasons why that bore/stroke combo was utilized. The reasons above are why the 305 came into existance. Arguing otherwise is a waste of board space.

"305 and low end grunt can't go together rofl"
No one ever said the thing would be a torque monster. COMPARED TO THE ALTERNATIVES, (do you know what the alternatives were?) the 305 could produce some decent torque.

I agree completely with five7kid:
"the 305 was the proper solution for the times"

 

There are plenty of good 305 motors conbinations. It seems some of the configurations are particularily offensive, but not the block. I only see people complain about combinations like the "peanut cam" in the LG4.