For some this is probably an easy question to answer. For those of us without the experience, we're left in dire straits. Let's face it... the stock 305 TPI wasn't made to run. My IROC has been in shows and turns heads without a problem. Sure... it sounds good with the cackling 3 chamber flowmaster and new Z tips, almost sounds like it has some *****. But for those of us who drive the stock automatics, we hate to admit how slow it really is. I've decided to swap cams after browsing through Summit to find a cam kit for $160.00 that added 40 HP to an 86' 305 TPI w/ a chip. It specifies only working with a non-roller cam engine and I believe mine is not roller-cam. If anyone has different information I'm not aware of, please let me know. The cam kit comes with lifters, springs, and lube and aside from a new timing chain and gaskets, I think I have everything I need to do the job. I've never done anything close to changing a cam. I plan on pulling the engine because I'd also like to replace valve seals while it's out. Not sure what the lift specs. are stock...then again, I don't even know if it's roller-cam. I know mine isn't the "hot" cam option because it red-lines at 5k. My questions are...
1. Is a new chip imperative?
2. Verification on roller/non-roller?
3. Anything else I need to do the job?
4. Is it worth the effort?
5. If anyone has the time... what's the
procedure in cam swapping?
All responses are greatly appreciated and if I can offer any advice on anything other than the engine... feel free to ask. I've installed a shift kit, swapped stereos, repainted the rear hatch louvers, made the front hood louvers look new, removed all smog control, built taylor spiro-pro plug wires, installed remote starter/alarm/neon lights underneath, all new decals, installed new speedo w/cable(a biatch), new shocks, struts, fuel pump, ball joints, idler arm, bearings... any questions, feel free to ask.
Thanks much for all replies.
86 305 TPI LB9 auto 110K miles

 

Roc,

Looks like my compadres are leaving you out in the cold, so here goes.

First of all, this is not an easy question to answer - because it goes directly to your budget and intended usage of the car. I'll presume, for the sake of aurgument, that you plan on owning this car for a few more years at least.

I believe your car is a non-roller, either that or it's a very early roller model. One of the other guys can help you better here - but, in my opinion, well, it does not matter.

And here's why.......a cam swap with timing chain and gears (do the valve seals while you're at it - you do NOT have to pull the motor to do this) is not hard - but it will be rather expensive. For a standard flat-tappet hydraulic cam/lifters/springs (yes, you must use new springs) and a timing set plus gaskets, coolant, oil, and other tidbits,your budget will look like this:

Cam + full kit - $379
Timing set - $69
Gasket set - $39
Oil, etc. - $50
Valve seals - $20

Total ~~$550

Let's think of another way to skin this cat - you've got a 1986 model vehicle - in the wilds of Illinois - where pollution standards are reasonable, and women wear skirts instead of "f~ck all men" buttons.

And, you're fairly new to this game ( if your questions are any indication).

Have you considered a replacement motor? I truly believe that a straight-up engine swap is actually less demanding from a technical standpoint than a cam / timing gear / valve seal repair. The cam swap and other repairs you speak of can best be done by the novice if a repair manual (Haynes or Chiltons) is purchased and followed to the letter.

However, a salvage yard 350 from any pre-computer vehicle will bolt right in, and better yet, should pass emissions tests to boot. Or, swap the engine and wiring harness both from an '87-'91 Corvette, and you've got a roller-cammed, aluminum-head motor as your base powerplant. Most of the decent late-model engines I've seen from the big yards that specialize in take-outs will charge $400 - $600 for a good 350. $700 usually buys a fresh motor WITH 700R-4.

Fresh being 50,000 miles or less. I'm going in this direction because your 100,000 plus mile motor is probably starting to show measurable wear in critical areas (pistons, rings, cylinders, bearings, valves)

A 350 TPI from an '87 Vette can be scored for $700 - and with free mods would put your '86 well into the 14-second bracket.

Lots of these cars get wrapped around trees, so core motors are not all that hard to find. ( check Hankin's Corvette in southern Indiana)

If you spent the $550 on repairing your 305, you'd need another $550 for a basic nitrous kit to run the same times as the stock Vette 350. Then, you'd have a car that chews up $30 per bottle of spray to go the same times as a stock Vette 350.

Starting to make sense?

If not, or for some other reason you love your 305, I'd suggest making friends with the mechanically-inclined crowd and enlisting some assistance. You need to crawl before you can walk, and a cam swap with valve seals is, IMO, not for the novice.

Good luck.

BOR

 

Yellow,

A new PROM might not be absolutely necessary, since you have a MAF sensor and no MAP. The change in manifold vacuum from valve event timing won't affect the ECM nearly as much in your case.

Your '86 TPI already has a flat-tappet cam, so that's what you should shop for unless you want to convert to rollers.

While you might not need a different PROM, you will very likely need new valve springs, and quite possibly push rods. What are the specification of the replacement cam? If the gross lifts are above 0.480", you should shop for new springs. This will also most likely mean you will be removing the heads to allow milling of the spring seats. While the heads are being machined, you'd better plan on installing screwed rocker studs. If you don't do it now, you'll probably do it later, since a higher lift cam will tend to rip the pressed-in studs right out of the castings (or, as Ed says, "pull-out" studs).

As for the procedure, you'll need to drain all fluids, remove the accessories from the front of the engine, remove the water pump, distributor, intake (entire TPI), rockers, push rods, lifters, timing cover, timing chain (then throw it away since you'll be installing a new set), oil pan bolts, radiator, and engine mounts. Once you raise the engine enough to slide out the old cam, coat the lobes of the replacement cam with break-in lube and journals with assembly lube. Slide the new cam into the bearings, then loosely install the new timing set, new lifters, etc. in reverse order.

When you get to the point of installing the timing and rocker covers, mount a degree wheel to the crankshaft and dial indicator to the lifter or rocker arm. Find TDC on the crankshaft and mark the degree wheel. Then find the lobe center of the cam grind. Time the valve opening or lobe center to where you feel most comfortable by positioning the lobe center at an appropriate amount before TDC.

When you're satisfied with the timing, replace all the rest of the components and start the engine, following the cam manufacturer's instructions for break-in.

Have fun.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"No matter how hard you try you can't stop us now"
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

 

... the kit from Summit is only $160.00 and it comes with spring and lifters. I bought the valve seals months ago as well as all the tools I need. A new timing chain is only $30. I'm only looking at $250 max... quite a difference between the $550.00 quote. Anyone can build up a 350... I know it's faster, but everyone has it. We have a fresh 468 ready to drop in a 71 vette for the neck breaking. Any other parts I need, I can get through GM less than half normal price. My friend's dad will be helping and he knows how to do this type of work. I'm positive this car is up for the swap. No sputters, no hesitation, good oil pressure, it's never run bad. It was lady driven its first 80K and me... she never sees the yellow caution.

 

WEll Yellow, I personally Think a Cam Swap is a Fine place to start.

Its not Exceeedingly Difficult, But you will learn Alot About how You Engine works, and it lets You Deal with the Entire Top end oF the Motor, You will Gain a TOn of Confidence about your Machine after Doing this.

as for procedure, Get the Chiltons For You car, And Find a friend Who has done it before who you can ask questions. It is fairly straitforward In that You Pull the old one Out and Put the new one In, The only Difficult parts are timing and Adjusting the rockers, But even that Is trivial If You are well informed.

I too agree that the quote for 550 For a New cam/springs is a little excessive.

For a Non Roller Cam, You can get an Edlebrock performer RPM cam kit for under 200, This is a Good street Cam and From a reputable Company. there are plenty Of places to get Bargain Cams, but Do You really trust Them ?

I personally Dont. For the extra 40 Bucks, The peice of Mind that Your Valve springs arent Gonna fatigue on you and that Your Cam is actually ground to What the Specs Claim is Worth it.

Will It Wake Up the Motor? yeah, a ****load.

I belive our Cams have something around .350 lift, that is pitiful. The performer RPM has around .488, Thats quite an Improvement.


My First V8 experiance was putting a Edlebrock Performer CAm in the 305 In My 79 Firebird, and It went perfectly.

That Motor is now In my buddy's 78 Vette, and it Consistantly Beats My Camaro By 2-3 Car lenghts. Keep in Mind it also has the performer manifold and 600 CFM edlebrock carb.

That Is using stock Springs and Pushrods. The motor had 120k On it when We put it In...


If You have any aditionaly questions, feel free to Shoot me an Email.

- Ian



------------------
60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Z28 LG4 - Daily Driver
**Mods**
MSD Superconductors
14" Open Element
KYB all around

 

Everyone I know who has used Summit swears by them. I'm gonna hold my faith and proceed with the project. I just ordered the kit, chain, and a tranny cooler all for $250.00 bucks. Thanks for all responses. Any more tips... I like to hear everyones opinion.

 

Well, Rocky,

Guess I got sucked into that one.

So, let's see....you have plenty of help from your friends' Dad (experienced, I presume)

You have a substantial discount on GM parts available......

And, you already have a preferred catalogue house to deal with......

So, why did you ask for advice?

Oh, BTW, those Summit brand cams are actually ground by a major manf. in the cam business.......and those grinds are 20+ years old. Slow ramps, wrong LSA's, etc.

The springs.......well you get what you pay for.

I priced Competition Cams' products out of the catalogue - not someones "house" brand.

Ah, see ya. Good luck.

Bullwinkle the Moose

(Hey Rock !! Watch me pull a rabbit outa' this hat...nuttin' up my sleeve....PRESTO !!)

 

BOR--
do you have the number to Hankin's Corvette? I live in Southern IN and have never heard of them....That ain't saying much, but would like to call'em.

Jeremy

------------------
92 Z conv
5-spd B&M
alston SFC, few mods, some free, some not

 

JaaMaan,

Ja I do. All I have to do is find it. Eh, wait one........

Yup, as usual, I can't find it. I've been out there once with my buddy....

So I'll check with him tonite and try to post info.

Seems like it was near Paoli, IN

812 area Code.

BOR

 

You dont have a roller cam. I looked over that kit from Summit. I would get it if I were you. Don't expect it to show 40hp on a dyno. More like 15 or 20hp. Yes you will need a new chip to run optimum, but it should still run ok with the stock chip. Look into rocker arms also to help increase the valve lift.

doubting the 305 block?, there are about 5 members in the 12s with them . LG4s running mid 13s...

------------------
91 Formula
305 TPI 5speed
1LE/G92/WS6
Custom cold air intake w/K&N, SLP airfoil, ported plenum, Crane AFPR (47psi),Crane Ext Alum 1.6 full roller rockers, Timing set from 4*BTDC to 10*,MSD6AL, Holley 9mm Annihilator wires, Ac Delco cap,rotor and plugs, Bosch O2sensor, Slp 1 5/8 headers and catback (all stainless steel!), 3:73s,JET 195* fan switch, Macewen white face gauges, Intellitronix Digital Gauges

Stock throttle body, runners,intake manifold,cam, and heads.

[This message has been edited by theformula (edited December 13, 2000).]

 

By the way, cam swapping is no walk in the park. Your car will be out of commission for a week or two.

 

a week or two? try 2 days If something Goes horribl Wrong!




------------------
60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Z28 LG4 - Daily Driver
**Mods**
MSD Superconductors
14" Open Element
KYB all around

 

I plan on taking my time with it. While we work on it at my friends house during the day, I'll be polishing the intake and runners to mirror shine at home during night. Since it's apart, might as well. I should do a before-after shot of the compartment. I have pics, how the hell do I post?

------------------
86 IROC 305 TPI LB9 700R4 W/ Shift kit, K & N, Flowmaster, airfoil, 160 thermo, removed emissions.

[This message has been edited by yellowiroc (edited December 13, 2000).]

 

Jmon,

You have mail.

BOR