my stepdad is giving me a 95 350 that came out of a chevrolet van it has a TBI on it. i was wondering what it would take to make it work in my 91 z28 convertible which has the 305 TPI. i want to beef up the horse power and keep the TPI. so will it pop straight in and can i just use my 91 intake. and what other problems will i run into thanks for all the help

 

Un-bolt. Re-bolt.

It is a crappy motor, because of the heads primarily, but also because it has a peanut cam in it. It will slow your car down considerably compared to the LB9.

On the other hand, if you get some decent heads and a halfway appropriate cam for it, it could be OK.

 

it is still a 350 short block. I would guess compression is 9:1 with 64cc heads. HCIE 350s can make 400 HP no problem. a bloke I know got 400 HP out of his L98 shortblock with a rather mild cam, ported 461s with 2.05/1.62 valves, performer RPM and shorties.

 

And this would have something to do with takign the best of the LB9 long blocks out and putting a POS L05 long block in ..... how?

Granted, inches are inches, as far as that goes. On the other hand, crap heads and a crap cam will kill a motor faster than anything else. Kind of like the 70s 400s that made 180 HP whereas 305s such as the L69 and 305 made 190 HP and more.

 

No reason you couldn't use the 305 heads and cam in the later block is there? Granted there are better head and cam combos out there but I would think this would be a okay combo too.

 

Yes, that could be done, assuming the L05 was a roller block.... the CR might be a bit on the high side though, and the heads would really need bigger valves; but even just as it is, that would run circles around the L05 long block.

 

I thought all 87 and up truck motors were roller blocks. I agree the valves are a little small but they've got to be better than the swirl ports. As for compression aren't most truck and van motors of those years fairly low compression anyway, with dished pistons and 64cc chambers? I would use the 305 heads but start saving for a better set.

 

its free, i'd say go for it, the only things wrong with it are the ****ty heads and cam, so for now do some work to those 305 heads and get a decent cam and slap em togather and save for a good set of heads..

 

a 350 block is a 350 block regardless of the year and won't make any effect on HP, you can put whatever rotating mass you want in it. furthermore if a crummy van 350 makes 9:1 compression it'll make the same power as a 9:1 L98 bottom end with the same stuff on top. notice I said SHORT BLOCK, not long block. take some time to read before you post. I'd trade a complete 305 for a 350 shortblock any day. Bigger bore = better. he can get a 350 for free, he can tear the **** heads, cam, and intake off and put good stuff on and make 400 HP easy. the only thing that would hold him back would be if it was a ****ty 8:1 compression motor and needed 58cc heads just to bring it up to 9:1 compression.

 

That's what the original post said. My answer is based on that.

You don't take a 220 HP (or whatever it is) 305, pull the induction system off of it and stick it on a 210 HP 350, and come out with something magical. You'd be real lucky to come up to 230 HP doing that, with those swirl-port L05 heads and the L05 peanut cam. In fact I doubt it would happen, considering that a L98 does about 230-240 HP depending on the details, even equipped with vastly superior L98 heads and cam.

Trucks didn't start being roller blocks until much later than cars. "Thinking" that thay are doesn't make them so. It was sometime well into the 90s before trucks changed over. So it's entirely possible that the motor in question is not a roller, in which case the 305's cam won't work.

In no case is this thing going to "make 400 HP easy".

Stick to the premise of the original question, and don't throw in a bunch of non-related stuff about things that have nothing to do with the issues at hand. The original post asks about taking a LB9 and replacing its long block with the L05; that is, putting the 305's intake on the L05, and installing that in his car. That's what we're talking about here, not a bunch of ported heads with big valves and Performer RPMs and carbs and all that. We are talking about a L05 long block with a TPI stuck on top of it. We all know what you can do with a 350 SHORT BLOCK if you put the right heads and cam and induction on it; but that's not what he asked. He's not talking about doing any of those things. He asked about putting his INTAKE on a L05.

OBTW - the CR of the L05 is around 9.3 as it sits. With the 305 heads on it, the CR will be in the mid 10s, depending on head gaskets. Like I said, it would work; but the CR would be much higher than you'd typically want for a street motor. That is especially true if he has to use the pitiful L05 cam.

 

you can make 400 HP easy with TPI. you wouldn't know about that cause you have a 305. there is this thing called the aftermarket. lots of nice better than stock crap in it. check it out.

 

Oh really!

Tell that to all the people that are struggling to get that induction system past 325 HP on any long block without nitrous.

And don't come back and tell us about the Stealth Ram or the Super Ram, because those things aren't TPI. They're the Stealth Ram or whatever. They don't use the acoustic "tuning" of TPI (the "T" in "TPI").

I have a feeling you don't have a clue what I know about or what I have or my aquanitance with the aftermarket is. But that's OK.

"It's better to merely be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." You just removed all doubt.

But that's not important, because none of that has anything to do with whether it's a good idea to put TPI on a L05 long block, or with what you'll get if you do that.

 

I'll just slide in here and there.

It's 90/10 on that not being a roller block. Ive only pulled a few roller 350's out of 1500 series 90% were standard flat tappet and 2 bolt main engines.

RB is making a very good point about the current platform you have and the equiptment on the engine you plan on getting. IF you plan on using the 350 as it stands you probably wont gain any hp but tq should improve some what. All you hear about on this board is TPI owners beoitching about thier choked engines falling flat above 4500 RPM.

 

....nobody even mentioned the lovely "decoration" on bad's trunk lid????????????

Man, I knew this was a sick board---just didn't know how sick.

I may reconsider visiting Loosiana....

 

I'm putting a bit over 325 to the wheels with ported TPI and 52mm TB and I'm well into the 12s. You keep talking about stock LONG blocks, while I am talking about stock SHORT blocks. L98 heads suck. they are restrictive turds. I would only use them on 305s or small cid motors that don't require as much air as a 350 would. to all those people having trouble getting past 325 HP, they ought to invest in a new set of heads. but let's all listen to slow *** 305 owner like you since you know everything. You are the same git who keeps talking about how 377s would not make more power than a 406 and what not but it's really all pissing in the wind and bench racing, the motors speak for themselves. the day a motor 406 beats a motor 377 in any form of racing with the same dollars invested I will stop dealing with chevys entirely.

 

A 406 WOULD beat a 377... given the same parts. Cubes = power. And getting 325RWHP out of TPI is NOT easy! I've not seen many if any people on this board putting out more than 325hp to the wheels on a long runner set up.

 

YOU DON'T USE THE SAME PARTS IN MOTORS OF DIFFERENT DISPLACEMENTS YOU STUPID GIT IT IS ABSOLUTELY RETARDED AND POINTLESS, THE ONLY THING YOU CAN COMPARE IS MONEY OUTLAY IN WHICH A 377 WILL ALWAYS BE FASTER AND MAKE MORE HP/DOLLAR AS WELL AS OVER ALL HP. We've whored this thread up long enough. it's really funny inspite of all the BS about how cubes are the most important thing ever, you all seem to be telling this bloke to keep his 305 and not bother with a 350 which has more than just the benefit of more cubes, but a BIGGER BORE.

 

Yes, but I'd rather have the car and replace the deck orniment with one of my own.



Black, as far as the coments about making more power with better heads and so on. The TPI was designed for optimum performance with a 305 with low flowing heads. Thats the platform GM based the "tuned port" design on. This GM creation isnt BS like some of the other things GM and other makes came up with. They optimized the induction with a 305 as the stand alone platform. They dident change it when they decided to drop 350s under the TPI. If they did get serious about the tuned port induction setup with a larger engine in mind like a 350 and based the tune on that it would probably be a very good performer.

 

You're confusing "sick" with "grown up".

Looks like non-performance-enhancing mass to me.

 

Not quite....

What we're telling him is not to bother with a bunch of L05 heads and cam. Long block, like he asked, remember; long block. TPI intake on a truck long block. Stick with the original premise and question. Don't throw in a bunch of this bogus 377 crap about stuff you've never built and have no real-world experience with, and that has nothing to do with what he asked. It's not part of the discussion.

What we're telling him is that the L05 long block is inferior as it stands to his existing LB9 long block. In other words, the car will probably not go faster with the particular 350 long block that he has compared to the 305 long block that he has. Not that all 305s are better than all 350s, or that he shouldn't step up to a 350; just not that 350, done that way.

So please calm down and quit calling the rest of us stupid high-school names and spanking yourself off about all this power you have and throwing in a bunch of stuff that doesn't really help answer the question the guy needs an answer to, which is: "Should I put my TPI intake on this truck motor?"

 

what I would do:


if its a roller block, i would take it apart, save up some money, get some good heads and a nice cam..... if i was in a rush, perhaps run it awhile with the restrictive TPI intake on there....save a lil more and put a aftermarket intake manifold on there. and have a nice lil 350.

if its not a roller block, (and i have no experiance with newer truck motors to tell if it is or isnt) then i wouldnt put it in the car.

id put it in the paper, find a nice guy that wants "a 350 SBC" and sell it.

then take the money and get somthing you can use now.. like a set of headers or somthing.

you dont want to go back to a flat tappet setup, and a 350 isnt cost effective to go buying the aftermarket roller stuff for... if it was a 400 block, id go for it, but for a flat tappet 350, i wouldnt swap it in the car unless i needed a motor right then.

 

.

 

Five7,

I can see that your definition of "performance-enhancing" is way different from mine-----LOL.

Grown-up, well, I may be 48 going on 60, but if ignoring the "ornament" to look at the admittedly beautiful car makes me immature, I hope I never do grow up. The "thrill ride of your life" might not have anything to do with transportation.

All the best to you.

 

You gotta love five7kid, he needs to put something in a sig or avatar saying "nothing but the facts" Hes never goes off into how much he knows, he just lets his posts speak for themselves, lol.

We would need to goto another board to talk about how the deck ornament would be concidered "performance mass" lol hahha

Edit: In fact I would say that could be the worst thing for your car. Do you know how many times I have heard "You love that car more than me" or "you spend more time with that car then me" and thats not even talking about the 100-170+ lbs in weight they add to the car. Thats makes you slower! On top of that they seem to think going fast, doing doughnuts, burnouts, or even a small spin off the line is obnoxious. Oh and one of my favorties is "Its not borken so why are you changing parts, it runs fine now?"

I always defend my car and say "Hey, its never nags me, doesnt get mad if I ride in others ones like it." haha ok im done, my wife is home now!!!

 

You stupid git, I never said ANYTHING about a 400 costing more lol. I said a 377 WOULD MAKE MORE POWER for the same amount of money as other SBCs. Let's not be a imbecille here. Anything for an SBC is relatively the same price and it's cheap and all interchangeable

Quote:

that last statement made you sound like a uninformed idiot kid that just learned all he could from hot rod magazine and wants to show his newfound info.... instead of replying to prove me wrong, why dont you show me what you've done, or just start talking resonable without throwing any wacky ideas out there... the current goal of this thread is to help " bad@ss89camaro" make a informed choice.. thats about it.

hot rod can **** off, they don't know a damned thing cause they couldn't even get 12s out of an 03 Cobra. this is for you you've earned it.
RB83L69, you're right I've never built a 377 yet, I haven't got the resources to. Doesn't mean I don't know people who have them in their 9 second street cars, and it doesn't negate the fact that I am yet to see a slow 377, I've seen quite a few disappointing 406s and 14 second 383s. you have obviously never built a 377 cause your stuck on your "cubes is everything" rants. you sound like pathetic old coot babbling about bull**** and "streetability". when you get into the single digits you can talk me down all you want, until then **** off. I can tell you this, it's going to take a whole hell of a lot of crack/boost to get a 406 or 383 into the 9s. you ever thought for a second maybe he could take the heads off his LB9 and throw them on 350? they'd up the compression, outflow the L05 junk and he'd be faster cause of the increased horsepower of a bigger bore motor and increased torque of 45 more cubes? tell me again how a 350 with TPI induction can't run 12s or make 400 HP? I am in need of a laugh.

 

uhhhh, blackcamaro...you just got yourself into alot more crap then you think. unfortunately, you being the newbie means that you don't know all of us well. RB KNOWS what he's talking about. yes, a 377 is quick, no i haven't seen a slow one. my friend had a 69 camaro with a 377 in it that ran low 11/high 10 N/A and would lay down a low9/high 8 on gas. however, i know alot of fast four cylinders with big bore/small stroke combos, but would you shove one in a thirdgen? also, to make a motor live above 7500 takes alot of work. constantly checking valve lash between rounds and taking the motor apart after every season to replace bearings doesn't describe a good time to me.

 

last time I checked, tearing a motor apart and rebuilding it at the end of a season is what needs to be done when racing. If you are going to build a 406 to do the same a 377 can do you'll be replacing things a whole lot more. when you go fast, things break. A 4 cylinder is NOT a V8 and I'd certainly want a 377 in my car, I will have a built shortblock ready by june, then transfer heads over, get a solid cam to match the heads and an HSR intake. a 377 makes huge torque, not as much as a 406 per se, but it can hold its own just fine, often at 2000 rpm they are making more HP and torque than a stock 305 is at peak or even a 350 L98, so it's not going to be any dog. tons of torque off the line is only good for smoke storms, breaking rear ends with ease, and making traction an impossibility. I've broken two transmissions before with a big torque off the line motor (and traction). mid range torque is what gets you pulling like crazy and top end power keeps you going. if RB has been building as many engines as you appear to have him, he ought to know what a 377 can do. you don't necessarily need to rev above 7500 rpm anyways. I would've thought people did more real racing here than bench racing. Also if he can't build a 400 HP TPI 350 and I can (as well as several other people I know) he just doesn't seem to be trying.

 

i wish you all would re read this post that i have submited
it clearly states that
1.i was givin a 350 out of a van
2.i want to beef it up 1st(aka.add more horsepower
between 300-400)
3.will my 91 intake and tpi bolt striaght on it
4.what other problems will i have(injectors,wiring probs.fuel
pump,computer problems
5.and add comments on what i shuold add(what type heads,
cam,etc)


Please quit fighting before this post gets locked or something Thank u for the help i have got so far

 

lol. mmk

1. cool. is it a roller block? if you dont know, look on the back edge where the bellhousing bolts to it and post up the casting number.
2. if its a roller... heads and cam.
3. any non vortec 87+ heads have the two center bolts on each side of the intake at the correct angle for your intake. however, dont let that discourage you from getting a set of heads ment for the earlier bolt style... 5 mins with a regular hand held drill and a file to clean it up will let you bolt it on no prob. athough i would be getting a diff intake anyway for that much power.
4. tuning. you will need to tune the motor. other then the cost of the burning stuff, your biggest problem here is the inital learning curve can be a lil steep for some.
5. nice aftermarket heads.. if not ported, then atleast cleaned up. i REALLY REALLY REALLY would consider a diffrent intake. dont forget your headers and exhaust... stick to a roller for the street, it'll give more power overall in a broder range..

also like i said before, if its not a roller block, i would sell it and find a better starting point.


but then again, some guy with a black camaro IROC said i was full of ****, so take it as you want... im off to build a solid roller 415 that will get whomped by a 377... :lala:

 

I'd really love to see a dyno sheet from these motors with Long Tube Runner TPI's making 400RWHP?

 

OK, hopefully the troublemaker won't come interject himself any more, and those of us who actually have built things can give you a straight answer to your question.

The short answer is: The van motor is a perfectly good short block; but its top end (heads, cam, etc.) is very low-perf, and will create a completely unsuitable platform for any type of high-perf buildup.

The first thing to do is to find out if it's a roller block. The casting # will not tell you if it is a roller block, only whether it is eligible to be one; that is, if it's one of the castings that has the bosses and stuff cast into it. Not all blocks that are the right casting have all the right machine work.

Take the intake off of it (you won't be using it anyway) and look at the lifters. If there's a big sheet metal thing holding down little figure-8 shaped things around the lifters, then it's a roller block, and your Camaro's cam will go into it. If that stuff isn't there, but the area around the lifters is machined flat, and the 3 little nubs down the "spine"-looking thing in the center (actually an oil passage) are drilled and tapped, then you can transfer all of the 305's cam & lifter stuff over to it and turn it into a roller motor. If any of that is missing, then at the very least it will require machine work to equip it with a roller setup, which will require a complete tear-down.

The heads on the L05 suck. They have these "ramp" things cast into the intake ports, that are supposed to improve torque and gas mileage at very low RPMs (like below 2000) at the expense of power at higher RPMs (like above 3000). Those heads flow terrible, much worse than your 305 heads, and therefore will kill any hope of horsepower. You could re-use your 305 heads on the 350 but your compression ratio will be rather high.

TPI itself is the same for 305s and 350s. There's no difference at all in the mechanical parts; only the injectors and the PROM and the knock sensor are different.

I would not recommend putting your TPI on that motor. As I have said before, that long block (block, crank, rods, pistons, cam, heads) will probably end up producing less power with TPI on it than your existing 305 does. It isn't an upgrade.

There are lots of heads, and plenty of cams, that you can use, that will totally change that though. The limits are how much power do you want, because at some point TPI itself becomes an obstacle to further improvement; and of course money.

What kind of budget and time frame are you working with?

 

the last motor i built went 900 passes without having to have a rebuild. it went 10.70's in a 2600lbs. monza. don't tell me you have to rebuild motors after every season if you make power.

 

*shrug*
i guess you and me are elite

the motor i built my senior year of high school pushed my 82 camaro to mid/high 11s... and the kid i sold the car to still has it and drives it everywhere.....only thing hes changed is the oil.

but im sure that doesnt count since its a 400... and its "only" running a high 11.

 

If it is a roller block it will have a machined flat area around the lifter bores. It probably will not have the spider (sheet metal thing) in the lifter valley.
I, also was given one of these long blocks and those swirl port heads are terrible. Don't even think about putting them in a camaro .

Good luck with your swap,
Charlie

 

A 377 is better than a 400. Thats funny.

I guess that explains all the pro race teams that run less cubes than the rules allow... oh, wait... there arent any that do that.

 

 

it's 330 RWHP, approx 400 CHP.

I've built plenty, mostly late model stuff, including LS1s.
Way to repeat exactly what I said long ago.
Also something I said earlier.

Mr_Dude when your 415 is ready, I'd be more than happy to whomp on it when my 377 is ready. We could even put money on it. High 11s is slow for a street car. I'm looking to go low 10s on the motor, but I guess if I believe you instead of my own eyes I'll be slower. Hell I know plenty of LS1s that'd be more than happy to whomp on big blocks right and left any day of the week.
mw66nova. 900 1/4 mile passes = 225 miles of driving before your first rebuild. if it was a true STREET car, 225 miles of driving before your first rebuild would be dick. I'm talking about several thousands of miles of driving and racing each season. **** off
this board sucks

 

Actually...

"September 9, 1983"



Boy I bet you work for a race team over there, dontcha?

 

Then please don't come back. You haven't added anything useful to answering the guy's question, and instead, all you've done is spank the monkey about this supposed 377 that you don't have but that's going to be so bad it'll defy the laws of physics in this universe. I don't think we need you, or people like you, around here on a board that's supposed to be about facts and correct answers as opposed to "planning" and "going to" and "thinking" and such.

The last 377 I built, just FYI, was about 18 or 20 years ago. The guy that had me do it didn't want to hear about why it wasn't a good idea for what he was doing, this business of spending extra money to take away cubic inches, but he did it anyway (and paid the bill thank goodness), and in the end, wasn't impressed. IIRC it had a 754 cam and 292 heads, pretty typical for the application at hand (round-track racing) at the time. He complained that he got his *** handed to him coming off of every corner by guys with 400s. He could beat the cars with 350s in them, but if a car with a 400 got under him in the corner, he was helpless.

If you've ever built a motor before you'd know (well.... since you haven't, maybe you wouldn't) how little difference it makes if you bore a 350 out by .030". It still doesn't make much difference if you bore that 350 out .060". So just how do you plan on rewritng all the physics textbooks by essentially boring a 350 out by .155"?

But you don't want to hear that either, too much like reality and experience to suit you, so go on with your "planning" and "going to" and "when the resources are available", and leave reality to the rest of us. And please quit interfering with this guy that's trying to figure out what to do with his truck motor that your monkey-spank has nothing to contribute to.

 

it's not going to defy the laws of physics jackass. Plenty of 302 fords have no problem decimating your almight 406 SBC. you spew this and that, haven't given a single explaination about physics. And you've simply repeated what I told this fellow earlier about taking the shortblock, putting his heads on it and swapping cams.
you fuct up his 377 build or he couldn't drive. cubes are hardly anything. 346 LS1s mop up on BBCs day in and day out. and a friend of mine has a 377 powered chevelle street car that hasn't lost to any 406 or 427 powered car. he's never ran a 434 powered car, but I'm sure he'd tear it apart too with his low 9 sec times. it'd really suck spending all that money on a special block and expensive rotatiing mass 434 to lose to a destroked 400.
You don't "bore it out .155" " you get a different block. WTF kind of idiocu is that? You have built so many motors yet you still can't get 330 RWHP out of a TPI induction 350, that's sad.
you're right, you're slow, you don't race, you supposedly play around with basic equations and talk **** about how cubes are everything, when they really aren't.

 

.

 

nice to see you had tons of money to dump into your car when you were in high school. I had a 305 TBI and it was slow as ****.

Quote:

1st off. everyone heres talking abotu small blocks you stupid dick... 2nd ive built LS1 cars too... and i also know alot of ********* that think their cammed LS1 is the ****... only to be whomped by a modded SBC.... but thats totally irrlevent.

i dont see why you even bothered to bring up that motor anyway.. *shrug*

cause it's a small displacement motor that will walk your junk

Quote:

but if you can go faster then a kid in highschool did with a motor you havent built yet, well, im proud of you... boy.

**** off and ban me *******

 

.

 

.

 

BBCs are big cubes dip****/. isn't that the end all of performance? not grasping for anything. I'm amazed that there are this many idiotic people on this board. he said explain to me how you're going to bore it (a 350) out .155".inches. just cause you two lovebirds jerk eachother off on this website with inside crap doesn't mean anything.
and they are redesigning the motor completely, it's a Gen IV block, LS2. and it's going to have a bigger bore from what I've read

 

anyhoooo...

before this gets locked, back on subject..


bad@ss89camaro:

we answer all your questions?

 

Spoken like a true ignoramus and non-participant!!

You accomplish that by building a 350, except using a .030" over 400 block instead of a 350 block. The result is {drum roll please} a 377! {cymbal crash} In effect, a .155" over 350. Nothing there to re-write the laws of physics (specifically, how much power you'll get out of it, based on how many gasoline molecules a cylinder holds when full) that I can see.

Anyting else about building engines in the real world that I can help you out with, while you ask me if I'd like fries with that?

 

I think I will.

Goodbye.

 

You must be right. I checked... all those 4 second top fuel dragsters are running 377 Chevy engines, or 302 Fords.

 

WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING? Nearly any engine can be built to make more hp than any other engine, and run a faster 1/4. There are many more factors than your magical bore / stroke ratio. Hell, you could have a 6:1 CR 700 in BBC making 250 hp. The fact that your buddy's 377 beats 434 ci cars is meaningless.

There are plenty of 231 c.i. Buick Regals running 10's. Using your twisted "377's rule" logic, I guess you could say that all 231 V6 engines will mop up BBC's. I'll be sure to tell that to the next person I see with a clapped out '85 Regal w/ a carbed V6.

Please stop spewing ignorant crap and go back to wanking over your car mags.