therckid

Alright guys, what engine/mods will result in good 1/4 mile performance but still allow streetability?

I have been debating with myself over and over and over again. I want a clean setup, which will let me beat a 4th gen (all years, stock) in 1/4 mile. That’s all I want. What kind of stuff would I need to-do this.

I want to keep fuel injection!!!!!!

I have now seen that the LT1 conversion can be made a clean setup so now this is an option for me.

My original plans were to get a LT1, a 383 stroker, and a LT4 Hot Cam (or equivalent), to make somewhere in the ball park of 400rwhp. If I were to do this with an LT1 conversion what kind of horse power would I get? Would it be identical?

I need the cheapest way through this and the LT1 conversion seems to be my best bet. I do, however, welcome any other suggestions anyone would have.

This build will not be done for quite a while but, I am going to start making the list and getting the parts when I come across them (when I have the money).


Thanks guys,
Shane

P.S. I am working on my mechanics skills guys, I’m taking 3 mechanics classes at the local community college during the summer. This way I can gain the experience needed to do this stuff on my won. So please, I repeat, please don’t dawg on me for my inexperience with mechanics. I am a beginner in this stuff so have patients guys.

ME Leigh

Good heads, everything revolves around good heads.

therckid

what else???

twistydick

go with the 383.more inches is always better, if you do it the kit way, make sure you clearance the rods!!do a search on different cams youre interested in.........guys on here usuall know what theryre talkin about.......same with heads, just remember to match your springs with your cam, a lotta people use the stock spring that came with heads and wonder why they have a dog. just research, research, research

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Are you saying doing a 383 LT1 or a 383 w/ an modified LT1 intake on top?

A 383 w/ a good set of heads and a good sized cam will get you close to that 400 rwhp mark. Personally I would run a bigger cam than the Hotcam in a 383. That 218/228 will run more like a 208/218 in a 383. A 230/236 in a 383 LT1 or LT1 intake car will be really close to if not over 400 rwhp. I know a few LT1 guys w/ 350 or 355s w/ ported LT1 heads, and a 230/236 cam making 400 to the wheels even through an A4.

Those guys are also running really low 12's and high 11's w/ traction. Add the added average HP and added torque w/ the 383 and you have an 11 second car w/ traction!

therckid

well i knwo all thsi but what stuff would make a great combo? Would the 383 w/ LT1 intake conversion and hot cam be a good. Right now heads are going to be quite expensive. That might be a later mod. I'm sorta thinking making the heads that i get (prolly stock ones) flow really nicely, port them a lot, then do whatever has got to be done to make them work.

I've made a list of what has to be done on the engine side. There is no machining cost because a guy i know said he'll do it for free, as long as i give him something (he wants the old 305).

350 Engine $300.00
LT1 intake Conversion $400.00
383 Stoker Kit $600.00
Fuel Lines $85.00
Thermostat Housing $65.00
LT4 Hot Cam Kit w/springs and lifters $500.00
700-R4 Rebuild Kit $225.00

I'm thinking this combo will make over 400rwhp. I'm gonna be needing a new rear end i guess. One thing i got to ask though is, can i sue this thing in the rear end when i start to beef it up, Its a locker that is completely "stretable."

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...95&prmenbr=361


Shane

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

W/ stock heads and a Hotcam that will NOT put down 400 rwhp. IMO you need a bigger cam than that in a 383 to really make the best of the added cubes. Do a search and see if you can find other combos where guys have made 400 rwhp and see what they are running.

If you do run the hotcam though, I wouldn't run those springs in the kit. They are barely enough spring for that cam. I have read about more than a few LT1 guys w/ put in the Hotcam and then have springs issues out of that kit. Go ahead and get some COMP springs that they recommend.

If you are really serious about hitting 400 to the wheels be prepared to break stuff. The rear and and the tranny are gonna be on borrowed time after you start beating on them.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

One more question? What do you want w/ this car? 400 rwhp? or a certain 1/4 time? Cause a combo that will get you 400 rwhp might not match up w/ your gearing or converter and thus you won't get a time that pleases you. While if you have a set time in your head, you might match up a combo w/ what you have in the car gearing wise, and converter wise and get you to where you want to be.

400 rwhp out of a 350 or a 383 is gonna require you to spin the motor up to 6500 rpm more than likely, is that an issue to you? If you do that though you will need the parts to hold that kind of RPM range...

therckid

New cam, ok. What cam would you recommend (brand model, exact cam)? I'm not the best at looking through cams so I don’t really know how to find this stuff.

I'm trying to get the ability to whoop the **** out of 4th gens. I mean I want to pull up to a stocker, and just make him sorry for even trying. My 400rwhp will do that easily.

I just need to beef up suspension, with these mods-
TDS Steering Brace (aka Wonder bar) $50.00
1982-92 Sub-Frame Connectors $189.00
High Performance Front Sway bar $65.00
Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs $239.99

Then get to beefing up the rear end, or get a used better one, and then rebuild the tranny and the whole car is ready for a transplant.

My worst problem with doing the lt1 intake swap is the fact I got to get rid of my Accell HEI High Output distributor coil. They say it’s too large. Ok I’m fine with that except I got to spend a shizzle load of money to reach the old coil's performance. I'm thinking since a good one it pretty expensive already I’m going to get a belt driven one to make the install look cleaner.


Also I will change to a newer cam if you say its better. I guess you've got nothing to say about porting the **** out of the stock heads? So I’ll take that as a good thing. The LT$ hot cam kit I told you about (it $500 instead of just the cam for $200), it has-
1 Camshaft (24502586)
16 Roller rocker arms (12370839)
16 Valve springs (12551483)
16 Valve caps (10212808)
16 Valve keys (24503856)
16 Valve spring shims (10212809)

I think it has what I need. But if it’s a bad cam then faux it. Tell me a great cam and I’ll use it. This time I’m going to listen to all suggestions instead of say what I want (that’s why people get mad at me).


Shane

therckid

I want to make a stokc 4th gen(any year) feel sory for even trying. That means maybe 2 car lengths or so. But if i need more then 400rwhp, then i'll do it, but if i need less, why not do 400rwhp.

Shane

therckid

All this with propper tuning and i'll still get the same or better then my current fuel economy. I curently get 16MPG highway. I'll either equall it or bet better. Which dont bother me cause i'm gonan have so much more power its not even funny.


Shane

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Another option for a setup that will mroe than likely spank stock LS1 guys is a 383, Super Ram, and a LPE 219 combo. There are more than a few guys running that setup well into the 11's. That will spank LS1 stock guys.

Seems to me that you want more of a street car. If so then streetability and torque is what you want. The SR/219 combo is more suited to that. I don't remember how close to 400 rwhp they are though.

One key is that w/ the SR/219 combo is that you won't have to shift at 6500 like w/ the LT1 intake setup.

rjmcgee

Me thinks you should buy a crate engine and put your TPI on top of it. Then nitrous on top of that. Talking about building a 400 rwhp engine and talking about what parts are the cheapest don't go together. At that level you want good quality parts, not the cheapest on Ebay.

therckid

oh yeah thats true. Shifting will be different wont it. Hmmmm..... I just never liked the look of the Super Ram. Its bulky. I do want it to be streetable, but when its time to show i want to be able to floor and make me and my girl friend glue to the seat (shes loves going fast more than me almost). I dont want a bad torque converter cause it will ruin fuel economy. But maybe a little higher will help.

I do not, i repeat, do not want NOS, I hate people who use nos is a drag.

Disclaimer: i am not trying to start a steriotype, but i just have an opinion.

NOS to me is cheating, as the quote that i made up goes, "the bottle is for babies." Its only cheap horse power and is only selectively useable. What i mean by that is you only have so much and its not power all the time. I want to be able to keep the torque curve going in a drag instead of getting maxed out like a r|cer does then hit the NOS button.

But yeah, i'm gonna be getting atleast 400rwhp with a LT1 intake swap. Whatever i gotta do i'm gonna do it( but not NOS!!!!!!).

I am gonna try to see if i can get a clutched SuperCharger. This means when i tell it to lock then winder starts to move and makes power. This would be awesome cause when my 400rwhp is maxed i still can force more air into it, and then BOOM!!!!!.


Shane

therckid

also advantages to a clutched supercharger are you dont have to have that pressure on the intake all the time and saves you some damage that may be caused.


The supercharger is gonan be the absolutely last thing i ever do. thats when i get fed up with my setup and say i need more.

Then the next step will be to put a new LS2 in it when they are readily availible. Then things got 3 vavles per cylender. See below-

thirdgen88

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Just for information sake, thats not an LS2 pic. That is an experimental Big Block cylinder head. I saw that on CZ28 a while back. The LS2 that is going into the new Vette is still a 2V per cylinder head.

therckid

Oh wait, its the new LS7(for the new Z06 model) thats gonna have the 3 valves not the LS2, sorry my mistake.


Shane

thirdgen88

care to share how you know this and no one outside GM knows anything about the LS7??

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

You need to slow down a bit and research some more. You are asking what a spaceship is and then trying to fly to the moon in 5 minutes. They make LT1 intakes that allow you to use your disrtibutor. Try to post all of your question sin one post. You keep reposting post after post with random stuff and i cannot keep it straigth to help you sort out your chaos.

therckid

search google for "ls7 engine" its everywhere.


Also, ok next post i'll get all my questions that have been asked before.


Shane

thirdgen88

Thank *** I'm not the only one... Yeah, you need to put down the summit racing and jegs catalogs and get some experience or read some informative books...

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Anything that you see on the net right now is completely speculation on what GM will have for the LS7. The only people that really know what it will have are the people working on the project. There are rumors and such that have been leaked out to various sources, but no one can say whether they are completely accurate or not. Once they release the specs then we will know for sure.

therckid

What should i do witha LT1 Intake Swap? I want atleast 400rwhp, and to be able to whoop the shizzle outta a 4th gen(any year).

My idea so far is a 350 engine stoked to a 383, with heavily ported heads and LT4 hot cam(everyone says this is a bad idea though).

I'm gonna stick to the 350 engine stroked to a 383, but restriction is no NOS. I'd like to say i have a 6.4li engine in her(man i gotta name my car, i hate saying her). I think i'm stuck in the actuall LT1 intake though. Unless when i'm buying the LT1 i find a MiniRam Very very cheap.

Please tell me how i can get my stock distributer to work with the LT1 intake conversion. Please!!!

What should i do to the rear end to make it support the max of 450rwhp? I saw the tech article on it but i understood maybe 25% of it all; there were no pictures!!!!

What kinda rear end gear should i get? i'm looking for a nice 1/4 time and a nice top speed also. I sometimes take me and my girl friend on cruises at night going 120MPH, its all we can do at the current time.

If i didn't say it already, what cam would you guys recommend? I want to be able to get equal or better then 16MPG like i do now. I've heard that the bigger the cam it does hurt your fuel economy.

Just name a setup, with the 383, and LT1 intake swap, thatyou would do your self. Try to stay on the cheap side though.



I told you i'm a begginer. I'm taking 3 mechanics classes at FCCJ, the local cummunity college, over the summer for $400 each. I'm gonna learn i just cant relaly learn howto do stuff to an engine witha book. I just cant, i need actuall experience turning a wrench.


Shane

thirdgen88

Thats fine, just don't bother building that much motor (since if you don't read a book and understand how an engine even functions, you won't put together the best combo).. Just work on your car right now and catch up on maintenence and stuff.. Maybe do some upgrades to the suspension and brakes and stuff...

PS: turning a wrench won't help you understand a cam spec card...

therckid

d00d, i undrstand how a motor works and all, i just dont have actual hands on experience. I dont know specific stuff to each engine but i do knwo what i need to get around. I've learned everything i could from here, which is a whole bunch and if you dont allowme to grow, how will i? I mean i knwo how to put an engine together, but i dont know the exacts. Like if an o-ring can be installed upside dow, if you were to ask me that i'd have no idea. But if you aksed me what it is for, where does it go and all i'd be able to tell you. I knwo what rollers are, rockers, valve springs, lifters and everything. I just dont know some specific details.

Also foo when i am building this motor i have a few epople helping me out that do have experience. One is a certified master mechanic, the othe r lives downt he street, he's rebuild his LS1 4 times because hes detonated the #1 cyinder 4 times. All i need todo is get the parts together and these people help me put it together. I can tlak to them about these things but you guys know more of the specifics on putting an engine with 400rwhp in our cars.

I pick up on details i read on the net all the time. I am on this websight at the least 5 hours a day. They can check the files to see when i'm logged on. I am on here atleast that much. If i could turn what i rea don here into books i'd have to fill my whole house up.

Just help a brutha out man. How am i ever gonan learn if you dont help me. I'm sorry if i sound stupid from not being able to read books on that stuff, if it had great representation with pics i could use a book like that. But i am a visual(kinetic) learner, i have to experience thing/see things to be able to learn from them. I cant just read things and put it together if i've never seen it before.

I'll have to tlak my mom into going to the book store with me(so she can pay, i'm broke) and find me a couple good books. Do any of you got any to recooment that i could find at books-a-million or the public library? I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks.My mom gts home ina few minutes too, so if you can give me some stuff to go by i'll be getting it thanks.


Shane

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Check this out and it shoul help you a lot. www.lt1intake.com

If you plan on a lot of traction with high power you are going to need a better rear than the 10 bolt. It would be a good time to lok for a built 9 bolt, ford 9" or 12 bolt. Moser, and Strange both make rears for our cars that can handle anything you can throw at them. A comp cams CC306 cam is one of the biggest cams out there for the LTx egnines. They have a whole slew of them that are bigger than the hot cam.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

The 306 is a good cam but it has way more exhaust duration thatn you need. COMP also has a 236/242 that if I was running a 383 that i wanted to get the most out of I would go w/.

What type block do you have? 1 piece rear main? or 2? Roller block or tappet kind? That is something that I didn't think of earlier that will affect what cams people can recommend to you. W/o that info we can only recommend duration ranges.

therckid

well i gotta say thanks for giving me a link to www.lt1intake.com, but uh.... for all the time i stay on this sight a day i'd have to be a retard for not seeing it. Which is why i saw it close to half a year ago. IMO that sight is ntohing but as pure profit sight. They need more in detail data in all aspects. Its almost a waste of webspace. I guess it gets the job done for john. But it could be way better IMO.


Shane

therckid

You mean the optional 9 bolt that was available on our cars correct? If I can get one of them9 bolts cheap then I’ll do it, but I need to just "beef up" my 10 bolt. I want to put a locker in it that is street able. It’s on jegs and I posted a link to it before.
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...95&prmenbr=361




This would be a nice start for me. Then I’d get some new Axels, and then maybe change everything to 28 spline to increase that extra "35%" strength increase.

See guys I don’t sound too stupid, I actually know what I’m talking about here, it's just that I’ve never really gotten the chance to take apart anything larger than a brigs & Stratton lawn mower engine. Well the library closes in like 9 minute and my mom just got home so I’ll have to wait until tomorrow to go get those books. There were quite a few books that looked interesting. Here they are

-How to build a small-block Chevy for the street / by Jim Richardson

-How to rebuild your small-block Chevy / by David Vizard

-Chevy performance / by John Michelsen

-How to rebuild your small block Chevy David Vizard.

I think I’ll get all of them, well if they let me. It says I’m allowed to have it for one week then I have to bring it back. I guess I’ll be doing quite a lot of reading then.

Are any of these better then the others? Tell me guys.


Shane

thirdgen88

Now you're talkin'!! Thank you for investigating some good reading.. Another one I could recommend is Rebuilding the small block chevy by John Lingenfelter...

therckid

hmmm.... i did know about that one and they dont sell it. Let me check if any of the other locations do have them...... Nope none of them have that book. I guess thats one that i'll have to buy. But all the other ones they ahve instock at my local library so i can get them tomorow.


Shane

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

go check out www.zerotactic.net to see what some of the members have installed and what times they are getting

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Awesome book. Great read and full of useful info for the newbie engine builder. I learned a ton being that was the first book that I read related to engine building. All the Vizard books are really good and informative. A bit more indepth than the Ligenfelter book.

Streetiron85

There's the TPIS books too.
Overpriced, like everything else they sell, but full of worthwhile info.
Dyno tests comparing different cams and intakes on 350s, 383s, and 400s.
Pretty useful stuff cause they're comparisons of their own products, so the tests arent slanted to favor one over another.

SweetS10v8

You soo need to start by hopping up a 305 or something, you havent talked at all about burning proms even.

As for the "nitrous is cheating" How is it cheating?? I can buy it, you can buy it. Thats like saying people who run aftermarket heads are cheating!! HP per dollar, end of story....

Heres a quote for ya. "Run nitrous, or lose to someone who does"

thirdgen88

Yeah, nitrous is fair.. I choose not to use it because I don't really care all that much whether I have a xx.xx quarter mile or whatever .. Somebody beats me with it though, kudos to them (and I hope their motor holds up! )

Streetiron85

BTW... That Briggs & Stratton you took apart,
Did you put it back together too?
Cause it don't count if you didn't.

therckid

yeah i put it back together afte ri replaced psiton rings and stuff. It worked after that and still does. I did it all on my own, myn step-dad was gone to panama.




Shane

Streetiron85

I feel better knowing that.
Something here reminded me of a guy I knew in high school.
He forgot to tighten his lugnuts before a 135mph top-end run. I was in the car. Luckily the wheel didn't fall off til we were back in town.
Good to know you're taking some classes too.
Keep on posting and searching here, you'll find out what you need to know.